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toronado3800

Dormant bud attachement strength on 4ft tall tree

Pretty much I have yet another Nyssa Sylvatica suffer die back then regrowth the year after it was planted. In the past I thought "boy I did something wrong planting or caring for this one". This year I'm inclined to leave the fella in place and see what happens its second year in the ground.

If I prune back the top three feet in a week or two will the lower branches all grown from what I guess are dormant buds along the trunk be firmly enough attached the tree stands some chance?

Nyssa doesn't get huge huge and it isn't over my house or the road so.

Oh, background. This is a grafted "wildfire" I bought locally about this time last year. The remaining sprouts there are all "wildfire" red. I did snip a couple greens which started way low. Gallon, 3 gallon pot, whatever. Amazingly NOT root bound. Just did a little teasing and it looked ready to plant.

Clay base soil...10 to 6 sun...right on the edge of the wet spot in the yard...thanks to the mulch trapped in the fence it looks like the tree is planted lower than it is.

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Comments (126)

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Four months and I'll be making the pruning cuts to turn it back into a tree.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Guys, how are yours looming this fall? The foliage on mine is a good red and stayed pretty good quality all year.

  • j0nd03
    9 years ago

    Your tree looks extremely happy, toro! I bet it takes the pruning cuts like a champ and continues to really take off. It appears to have grown at least 2' looking at the new growth shoots.

    Most of my leaves that have fallen did so without color change. We had a warm spell last week/weekend that killed a lot of fall color around here. If it does get some color going, I'll let you know =)

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    9 years ago


    Overall I am split on my cuts. That higher flat one MAYBE shoukd have been at a 45 degree angle. Can't believe how thick that co-dominate leader I cut back last year got.

    Hey, it looks like a tree though and hopefully encapsulates those ugly cuts well.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    J0nd03, got any updated pics of yours? Even in the last one you posted it was close to sealed up. How long did that take?

  • j0nd03
    9 years ago

    Toro you are going to love the results with that pruning IMO. What a fantastic specimen it has already grown into with your help!!

    I would only make one small change and that is cutting what I see as a stub a little lower. I was faced with the same situation on my tree and decided to make the cut more flush with the trunk. This happened on the large wound that is still closing but, as you can see, it is healing up nicely and faster I believe than it would have had I left a stub.


    I'll take a pic of mine in the next couple of days and post it. I did some more pruning just this past weekend eliminating a few more branches that interfered with my mowing =)


  • j0nd03
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    2015 large callus starting point above and pics of the full tree below. I pruned the lowest 4-5 branches which I think is visible combining the pics. I goofed up and forgot to take a pic before I started trimming. Whoops!

    Toro you asked how long that callus took and the answer is 1 growing season =)

  • jqpublic
    9 years ago

    Looks amazing! I'll post a pic of mine this spring. 2014 was the 3rd spring for my forest farm Nyssa sylvatica and it leaped as expected. Over 1 foot of growth. Closing in on 5'!

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    She's growing. I like that pruning job of mine 0% but we will see how it starts to encapsulate before I get excited and cut more.


  • jqpublic
    8 years ago

    How early (age) do they start flowering/fruiting?

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I dunno mine is that wildfire cultivar so the scion could be what, 60 years old? It was about my height when I planted it, then it died back NEARLY to the graft and now it is taller than me. Last year or the year before it flowered also.

  • jqpublic
    8 years ago

    Oh yeh, forgot that it was a grafted specimen.

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    8 years ago

    Thanks for sharing your experiences. This has been an interesting read.

    Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis thanked NHBabs z4b-5a NH
  • Rick Heil
    8 years ago

    Can anyone confirm that 'Wildfire' does produce fruit? I cannot find any definitive info online. I have read alternately that it does fruit (from some growers and retailers), while others have said it is a male clone and does not fruit. Does anyone have a 'Wildfire' that has produced fruit? Any photos? Thanks.

  • toronado_3800
    7 years ago

    I have flower buds right now I'll update you on what they amount to. Its the only Nyssa I know of on the block so I dunno if it is self fertile. On a dry day I'll crawl about and take pics of the trunk also. My pruning job isn't as good as others but I think the tree will outgrow it.

  • j0nd03
    7 years ago

    Pics of my experiment tree. All callused up and looking good so far - Tree

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Oh wow, that has done nicely. Good work!

  • j0nd03
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thanks, Toro!

    ps - did all of my previous pics disappear??? =*(

    Edit: just read imageshack changed their hosting policy last November and I had until January to download my images. Everything on my imageshack has been deleted by them because my account was considered abandoned. So pretty much 90+% of the images I linked to in the old GW posts/topics will now be blank. Epic.

  • Rick Heil
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I've learned that 'Wildfire' is a male clone and will not produce fruit, the very reason I planted two in my yard! Many growers still list it as producing abundant fruits... false!

  • j0nd03
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Since the original photos were lost I'll post a summary or pics:

    After the top died I was was left with this Nyssa bush late summer/early fall

  • j0nd03
    6 years ago

    Here is what the "trunk(s)" looked like up close


  • j0nd03
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I pruned the competing stems out late winter a few months later in this pic


    Edit: This is actually a growing season after I did the initial pruning which I don't have a picture of. Basically I made heading cuts on the other thick competing leader to encourage sideways branching growth (which the tree ignored and shot straight up just below the pruning cuts!). Then after that growing season was over, I pruned it into this pic.

  • j0nd03
    6 years ago

    full tree at the same time of the pruning


  • j0nd03
    6 years ago

    Here is the callus after 1 growing season (approx. 6 months later)


  • j0nd03
    6 years ago

    Here is the callus already closed early the next growing season


  • j0nd03
    6 years ago


    Full view of the tree at the time of the above callus pic

  • j0nd03
    6 years ago

    Next year callus at the end of the growing season (approx. 16 months since the above pics)


  • j0nd03
    6 years ago

    And the full view of the tree (fall sucked this year and it already dropped a lot of leaves without color)

    The tree is about 15-18' tall here although it is hard to tell from the pic


  • toronado_3800
    6 years ago

    Wow j0nd03, yours has sealed up nicely. I kinda like the pics all lined up in a row btw. Later I'll get a pic of mine. Its a year or so behind yours in encapsulation. I never was thrilled with the angle on a couple of the cuts I made so I blamed that.

  • j0nd03
    6 years ago

    Awesome, Toro! I was hoping you would see the update and put all of your pics on here, too!!! Can't wait to see them

  • hairmetal4ever
    6 years ago

    Wow, tree looks great!

  • toronado_3800
    6 years ago

    sorry for the poor photography. I was in a hurry to mow.

    Check out them moving tan spots on the trunk in the bottom two oics taken one after another. At first I thought leaves were blowing by. Any idea what trick of cell photography causes that?

    Next year I hope it looks as good as yours J0nd03.

    I'll have a run at combining some pics and reposting iver the next few days. I was busy tonight finding Uranus in the telescope. It took a few moments of star hopping in these soupy skies.

  • j0nd03
    6 years ago

    I bet the callus on your tree closes off by the end of next growing season. The tree itself looks great! Very healthy and growing well =)

  • toronado_3800
    6 years ago

    Fall was strange this year. My wildfire was still largely green last week and settled into a dark red / brown after a couple nights in the 20's. Old main species trees are still showing 10 out of 10 GREAT fall color.

    Now its red and unique all growing season and maybe because of that the fall color is still good but not as striking as regular nyssas IMO.

    Its probably one step better looking in person than my cell captured. Thats a Metasequoia and my neighbor's broken Bradford in steps back to the right for reference.

  • toronado_3800
    5 years ago

    These pics are 9 days old. Another thread just got me thinkings about this one. Forever I've left any buds down low on that outside piece of the trunk go figuring they give the tree SOME reason to keep the juices flowing over there. They necer amount to much and I dunno of they've helped. I find the red new growth quite pleasing this year even if I couldn't get a good picture of the whole tree.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Drat, found a soft spot there above that last bit which needed encapsulation. I cut back the rot and found the tree to be growing around it already. What you all think? 3 years before thats closed off?

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    4 years ago




    Huh, I can still update the old thread.

  • bengz6westmd
    4 years ago

    Should close off in 2 yrs. You were correct to clean it out to help it dry.

  • Jameszone7a Philadelphia
    3 years ago

    How’s it looking these days ?

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    oh my, sorry I missed the question. It is looking pretty darned good.


    Huh, the new phone lets me post photos out of Firefox. This is from early summer I think.


  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    2 years ago





    Just posting the usual fall photos. For other trees it was a great fall, the Nyssa is doing its thing as usual.

  • jqpublic
    2 years ago

    Looks great!

  • John
    2 years ago

    This is j0nd03. I can't log in with my old username for some reason.


    Toro, your tree is looking might happy!


    Mine has actually flowered the last two years but did not bear fruit so I guess it is a male. I have four other blackgums planted on the property so hopefully at least one of them gives me some babies in the future!

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    That would be neat! My yard mostly gives me redbuds lol. I can grow redbuds like no one's business. The Ash, Walnuts and even some variety of Cornus volunteers pop up but the Cornus never seem to make it.


    Next year I'll be on the lookout for Nyssa flowers and let you know what I get.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    last year

    looks like it is going to be a bumper crop this year;




  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    last year

    Best year yet for fall color. Maybe its been in the ground long enough, the dry mild fall?





  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    Original Author
    last year

    Best year yet for fall color. Maybe its been in the ground long enough, the dry mild fall?





  • jqpublic
    last year

    A thing of beauty

    Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis thanked jqpublic
  • bengz6westmd
    last year

    Some Nyssa berries from a tree on a lakeshore in PA. Sour like little lemons.


    Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis thanked bengz6westmd