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Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Posted by gardener365 IL 5b (My Page) on
Thu, May 15, 14 at 8:06

Continuing from part 1 and 2
(maximum posts reached)

Good looking color on that late starter, treebird.

Dax


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

I've put in about 30 grafts so far of pecan and hickory varieties, some from scionwood treebird sent.

Kanza - cleft graft on a 2 inch diameter seedling in my yard, buds have broken, looks like this one is going to make it.

Prilop of Lavaca - cleft graft on a 2 inch diameter seedling in my yard, buds have popped, but no active growth yet.

Miss L - whip graft on a 1/2 inch diameter seedling in my yard, buds unchanged since graft

Gafford - on a 8 inch diameter tree beside my house, buds have popped, but no growth yet

Giftpack - on several seedling trees in my garden, buds have broken, but not out of the woods yet.

The rest are on seedlings in a nursery row at the edge of my garden. About 2/3 look like they will make it.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

That's great!

I'm going to have really low percentages here. I'm seeing my first of my second batch push thru the wax as of the last 2 days.

About 7 days ago most of the rootstocks had little buds appearing that I rubbed off.

All my wood was from Gary's pecans and the ortet Hark pecan and everything sustained cambial damage and will need time to repair the vascular tissue from last winter... Gary didn't even graft this year for that reason alone. He was considering doing a few after the videos we made. Those scions we grafted for the videos came from Connecticut, (2) 'NC-4'.

Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Glad to hear your grafts are going forward fusion. Dax, you're going to have to hook me up with a hark tree for my pecan orchard. Those were some excellent nuts you sent. It doesn't seem like it's a very heavily circulated cultivar. I think it should be more widely planted. I just hope its fairly cold hardy. My Mandans are gonners but Kanza and Peruque are going strong. I noticed no freeze damage to the cambium and we got as low as -24 this winter here in Iowa. The hicans are also not affected by the extreme cold. It seems like its taking a long time to get warm and stay warm this year. we had a record breaking 100 degree day here in southwest Iowa a week and a half ago and then we got a frost here 3 days ago. It hammered some garden plants good and also every heartnut that had CW before the number including a bunch of CW3 seedlings. My Simcoe 8-2s and Imshus are still going strong. Pecans were unaffected by the frost too. It got as low as 26 in some parts but only reached 30 here.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Just wandering if anyone has a Keystone shellbark hickory growing? I received a tree from Grimo Nut Nursery that has 5 leaflets, very uncommon in Shellbarks but most common in Shagbarks. I contacted Ernie Grimo and he said his parent Keystone cultivar has 5 leaflets just like mine. Keystone is documented as a shellbark hickory but I am confused by the number of leaflets on the tree I received. Thanks


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

I will for sure hook you up with a Hark. Totten and I drove to Clarence IA last week to visit Kelly Nursery to buy pecan seedlings and I have 125 for next year. I've heeled them into a temporary bed and will bench graft them with this!.....

Fieldcraft Topgrafter
Fieldcraft Topgrafter photo FieldcraftTopgrafter001.jpg

 photo FieldcraftTopgrafter002.jpg

Let me tell you... this tool is incredible. Just as good as Gary's homemade grafting tool I'm about to show you. Gary's an old die & cast man and built his own having the blades only along with an intact 70's grape grafters tool to look at and to go off of:

Grafting Pecans with Machined Tool

Bark Grafting Pecans in The Field

My pecan grafts are still coming along real slow.... only 3 of 19 have broke this far. 1 just breaking 3-5 days ago.

Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Nice tool Dax. It looks like you can definetly do surgery with that thing.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Another pecan broke this morning. The bud scales are separating.

It's the right tool. We all know that story... for the job.

Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Well, lf you have so many Hark trees that you don't know where to plant them, I have plenty of room. I'm cheering more trees on for success. My hickories were pushing forth and then that frost came and put everything on hold. It might actually turn out to be a poor year for grafting for me. Even worse, I went to do some re-grafting and found my wood was out in the tool shed unrefrigerated for 2 weeks. Bummer


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

We'll just have to see this year. I have already removed trees and shrubs to accomodate (3) Hark and (1) Mullahy. I also bought from Nolin River Nursery and is planted: 'Dumbell Lake' which Gary Fernald told me is better than the Warren 346 I had on hold. Gary also stated that his selection of 'OC-1' will pollinate Dumbell Lake and I have I believe 1 or 2 of OC-1 grafted, but no push on those, at least not yet. I have a spot where a Starking Hardy Giant was for the 'OC-1'. As luck would have it I dropped a 70' poplar right on it. Glad I did. Next time I get chainsaw happy I'm going to dig up anything that could be in range of the fell tree however, and put it back after! I almost feel silly telling the whole world what I did.

But treebird, next-year I'm geared up with 125 pecan rootstocks and I'm going to graft mainly Hark and Mullahy to sell as a combo (share with friends) since their bloom(s) overlap couldn't be a more perfect match. Bill Totten gave me his blessing to begin propagating/selling 'Hark'.

So, maybe this year for ya, maybe next. I'll get a Mullahy for ya if you need that, too. I didn't graft those this year, so that will have to be next year.

Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Have you tried Growing Kanza where you're at? I have several small tree I got from Stark Bros a few years ago and they sure can take the cold with no problem. I was told by Bill Reid that they might not fill every year in Southwest Iowa. I'm hoping that the trees will adapt to a shorter growing season here and the nut will just lose a little size. Mandan and Pawnee didn't survive this past winter. How is Hark as far as scab resistance? My Peruque trees show some slight scabbing with all this rain we're getting, so is my Burlington hican. T-92 hicans are beautiful and scab free with huge leaves! I love scab free trees! I might try growing the shepherd pecan here but I like to sample everything before I grow it. Which is logical for most of us. I haven't tried Mullahy nuts but I heard the tree can get scabby. Those Hark nuts you sent were outstanding and I am still very shocked the tree isn't more widely propagated. Based on the stats on Bill Reid's blog, Hark has a higher % kernel than Kanza and Major. It is larger than Major and can be larger than kanza as well. So why did I just find out about Hark last year? It was the first time I've heard about this pecan. Gary told me it's a Type 1 protandrous early pollinator which would make it a great companion for my Kanza trees. The bark is really neat on the tree as well. It looks flakier than Major bark.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Major pecan with stats.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Kanza pecan with stats.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Hark pecan with stats.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

T-92 Foliage. This nut is believed to be a controlled cross of Mahan pecan and Weschcke shagbark hickory. I took this photo this morning. These are some HUGE leaves. Very healthy foliage!


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Those leaves are killer.
Gary has a couple Kanza's. Just like mostly everything this winter the cambia showed at least some bruising, but you're right it's fully hardy. Bill Reid told me the same exact thing he told you. I've looked where you are and you're slightly south of where I am.
Yep, when I went with Totten to the Illinois Nut Growers meeting and looked at all the samples, 'Hark' outdid 'Kanza'; Totten had no-problem pointing that out! And I know Reid gave 'Hark' the "Blue Ribbon" cultivar in 2007. Why it isn't being propagated is because the wood was only distributed to the USDA 'a decade ago' which they misplaced it, lol, having to ask Totten for more thereafter realizing they couldn't find the grafts in their fields, haha! & also Bill handed some over to Professor Reid about eight years ago. Additionally, I know at that IL meeting that Bill brought scions for a friend of his. I think besides myself and Gary Fernald, and the others mentioned, that's the extent of how far it's gone.
I think it's a low pest free tree, treebird. It may get some scab but it's raved about so much that I've not even heard that come up.
The ortet lost that flaky bark that Reid shows on his blog of younger trees. The ortet is a king specimen at 70' tall, minimum. I have a photo of the bark but not of the entire tree, at the moment:
Carya illinoinensis 'Hark' (ortet) photo CaryaillinoinensisHarkortet004.jpg
 photo CaryaillinoinensisHarkortet003.jpg
Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Very interesting. I have 4 kanzas and would like to use Hark as the pollinators. Can you imagine the genetic potential of crosses made between the two.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

It blows my mind.

Guess you better keep Mullahy out of the equation and I will do the same.

Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

I know this is not meant to be a pecan thread but I was near the Platte river in Missouri (Very far North, not too far out of Iowa) and came across a heavily productive pecan tree with nuts that are above average native pecan in size with a very thin shell. The tree has to be self pollinating because I came across no other pecan trees in a half mile radius. All the small nut clusters on the tree had groups of 6 and 7. I also found my very first shellbark hickory tree close to home. No nuts on or underneath the tree but I am just scratching my head as to why people do not plant hickory for their ornamental value as well as nuts. This Shellbark tree had ENORMOUS leaves, some as long as my waist to the ground.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Platte River pecan nut cluster.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Platte River pecan shells found under the tree. This fall I will get nut samples to inspect.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

My son Tayden holding the shellbark hickory leaf up for display.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Yes, I'll be interested hearing about that pecan.

Here's Gary Fernald a few days ago showing a June greenwood graft.

Dax

Here is a link that might be useful: Grafting Pecan: June Greenwood


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Great video Dax. Glad to hear less wind in this one. Very interesting budding demo. Love Gary's Red Green analogy. I was thinking the same thing when he pulled out the electrical tape and foil duct tape, lol. I definitely hope to get some Hark scion next year.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Yes, like windex as a bug spray and antiseptic... duct tape, electrical tape, and foil have always been recommended by the Greeks for grafting. That Red Green show is a scream at times.

I've three Hark now that took and one of Gary's 'Iowa' pecan selection. 'Iowa' shuck splits in 137-139 days and is a plump little pecan shaped like a football. I haven't tried one, but its size reminds me 'Major' which I've been eating tons of for months and months.

I've got seedlings of Hark going now and I'm going to graft 'Hark' to those for planting here in a couple three years..... cause that's how Red would do it.

Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Well I went to the Lake Icaria hickory tree yesterday. Very strange weather here in Iowa today and yesterday, Unseasonably cool. The verdict is out that not only does lake Icaria have a wonderful nut and the tree having beautiful form and foliage but it is also a heavy annual bearer. I found out why none of nuts had a single weevil in them last year. Apparently when the nuts are bitten by weevils they are shed onto the ground. Fred Blankenship said that the only other tree he knows that aborts weevil bitten nuts is Yoder #1. There were thousands of aborted nuts on the ground underneath the Lake Icaria tree. Every one on the ground had weevil damage and the nuts on the tree looked unblemished and perfect. I highly recommend lake Icaria for grafting and growing for nut production. I believe the tree is self pollinating and is lateral producing making very heavy crops. Nuts are found not just on the outer limbs but throughout the inside of the canopy.


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Excellent. Very interesting, too.

Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

I live in SE Iowa and have read and reread this entire thread many times. Great info!

My first attempts this year at grafting brought mixed results. My apple grafts were near 90% and I was very pleased.

My hickory attempts ran at 10% but I did learn a lot. I think some of my failures were from not enough protection from the sun. My two successful grafts were in a shaded area around May 20th. A Porter and a Fayette. Both the Mega Chip bud method Tom Wahl uses.

The Porter has nice new growth about 18 inches. The Fayette has about one inch new growth. The Stink Bugs and Leafhoppers were hard on it but I still have hope for it. A second Fayette looked fine with about 4 inches new growth until a heavy rain last week. The new growth seemed to go limp and turn white/gray. It certainly looks dead now.

I wondered if anyone else wanted to share their successes or failures.

Thanks,
Chris
Fairfield, IA


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Chris,
I've been grafting nut trees for 20 years - and still struggle - a 50% success rate is phenomenal for me!


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

I've been grafting for a grand total of two years now and have had pretty good success (50-70%) with Pecans.

But this spring I got one take out of seven on Black Walnuts.

I'm grafting Kanza, Lakota & Lipan pecans & Mintle black walnuts. All on native rootstock. I would love to obtain some Hark pecan scionwood this winter.....


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

No problem. I'd be happy to send some scionwood.

Dax


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

Dax, I will be hollering at you this winter. And If I have anything that you want, I will be glad to return the favor. Thanks so much!


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RE: Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

You're welcome. I understand... believe me.

Dax


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