Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
cattyles_gw

tadd

cattyles
9 years ago

My favorite tree, a big gnarly bur oak, was the victim of a drunk driver this morning at 1am -along with my brick mailbox and the neighbor's car. He was driving a big dueley (dooly duelie?) and conveniently left a trail of diesel right up his driveway and into his garage. He is in the pokie. Don't know his insurance status yet.
An arborist is coming this afternoon. Is there any hope for poor Mr. Bur?

Comments (27)

  • cattyles
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I know I should just wait on the arborist but I really value yall's input. I lost a Honey Locust last year and the trees are what I love most about my house.

  • campv 8b AZ
    9 years ago

    Wow don't know about the tree but that guy has a real problem. Hope they throw the book at him.

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    Wait for the arborist.

    If the tree was, up to this point, 100% healthy, I'd give it a 50/50 chance. That's a BIG wound to heal over, although since it didn't girdle the whole way around, it could live.

    The challenge will be for the tree to successfully heal over and compartmentalize the wound before rot or disease strikes.

    Oak Wilt comes to mind - it's not a big issue here, but I've been told that it enters through wounds.

    Although Burs (and white oaks in general) are less susceptible than oaks in the red group, I'd still be concerned.

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    Oh, and what a jerk.

  • bengz6westmd
    9 years ago

    I'd agree -- 50/50%. No treatment is necessary or desirable. Keeping the wound-area dry is the idea. Leaf-output this yr will be poor even if it survives, so don't be surprised. Hope the roots weren't damaged....

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    the other side is undamaged????

    there is a green cambian layer just below the bark ... its the vascular system of the tree .. moving water up ... and storing energy down [very simplistic here] ...

    the other half can do the job ... most of the time.. the issue is how well.. and if parts of the canopy will be sacrificed by the tree ...

    but whether i would want to look at it for the next decades.. as it tries to heal.. is beyond me ... and DO NOTHING... it will heal itself.. and NOTHING you dream up... will help it ...

    i had a pine damaged by lawn goo .. and was paid $100 per foot ... for a 14 footer ... plus removal ...

    now.. if insurance gave me the money for your tree ... i would have a lot less problems watching it heal ... lol ...

    but what you cant do.. is decide to wait and see.. because by the time the result is know.. say.. 5 or 10 years ... [trees work on their own time] ... the insurance money will be long gone ... IF ANY ...

    thats the facts as i see it.. what should you do.. i dont know ...

    keep us posted and we can continue to give you ideas ...

    ken

  • arktrees
    9 years ago

    IMHO, IFFFF has insurance, they would be planting me a nice mature tree. That looks to be about 5-6" in caliper, so I would be going for a 8" replacement planted with a tree spade. You can use the angle of depreciation of your property value due to immediate lose, and lose of value due to lost future growth. Can also attach personal mental/emotional damage to the lost of your tree, etc. Get a lawyer if you need to, and make them pay for that too. In fact it might be best to have a lawyer writing a letter to them up front so that they know it will cost them allot more if they don't see it your way. You won't know for years if this tree will make it or not, and by then it's too late for any recovery from the insurance company. Besides from the Insurance company perspective, paying 5-6K for a replacement tree is cheap compared to if he had seriously injured or killed someone instead.

    JMHO
    Arktrees

  • cattyles
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the sympathy and the wisdom. It really is a nice tree. In west Texas people think you're nuts to be more worried about a tree than a mailbox. And the neighbor's car is totaled. I have a pretty good insurance guy but he gets disgusted at my tree love. The only thing he is interested in from the arborist is his written estimate of replacement cost of the tree because if they offer even half of that, he thinks I should accept it using your reasoning, Ken. And now, the rest of the story.......

    The guy that did this just rang the doorbell and could barely talk, all choked up and teary. He apologized and wanted to clean everything up. He had walked over with a shovel and wheelbarrow.

    When I told him that my insurance guy wanted to see if his insurance guy would accept the pictures already taken, or wanted to take his own, we figured out that it's the same insurance guy........which also happens to be my ex-husband. Gotta love small towns, lol.

    So if the arborist wants to try to re-attach the bark, should I ask any questions? Tell him I need to think about it? His name is James Tuttle. I looked him up and he was one of the first to become a licensed arborist in the area. We aren't exactly lousy with tree peeps around these parts!

  • cattyles
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    What the heck with the sideways pictures? They looked fine from my phone but now that I'm on the laptop, I apologize. Is there a way to fix them?

    Ark, your response sounded a lot like what my insurance/ex guy said. At least I think so (not as much attention span when not talking trees). But it's exactly the thoughts/advice I need!

    The other side of the tree is undamaged. I surely do hate the thought of watching Mr. Bur slowly die.....

  • cattyles
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hairmetal- it is my understanding that we don't yet have a problem with oak wilt here. I hope not, I have 5 other oaks. For the consultation fee, the arborist will check them all. Something I've been meaning to do since I bought the house 3 years ago. I also still have 2 other Locusts and a group of 3 more trees in the back that I am not sure what they are. I have always meant to post them for y'all to name.

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    Tilting my head sideways, that *is* a very nice looking Bur Oak. I'd be sad, too.

    Ark might have a point about a new tree - while an 8" tree of any species is a challenge to transplant, if you can find a nursery that grows them using root-pruning technology, either Rootmaker/SmartPots etc (there are a lot in Texas, but more torwards SA and Austin, IIRC, not so many near you) or just field-growing using traditional root pruning, then the establishment phase is a bit easier. Esp for a Bur Oak, without any intervention they grow a taproot that is a bear to cut.

    This post was edited by hairmetal4ever on Fri, May 9, 14 at 14:13

  • arktrees
    9 years ago

    The tree is suggested IS a BIG transplant. That is the reason for wanting to use a tree spade. Fully grown trees can be and are transplanted, and there is no reason a tree this size can not be. As for others not valuing the tree, so freakin what. Wasn't their tree. I personally would not settle for half, and would not let anyone convince me otherwise. As for the source of a replacement, not your problem. If it cost them more to have one transported, not your problem. They will whine complain, question your motives, you values whatever. It is a company, they have no feelings to hurt. Don't feel bad for them, for they certainly have no regard for your feelings. The reality is their only value is $$$$. You make it clear to them they can play nice and "we can get this all cleaned up", or it can get dirtier and cost them ALLOT more $$$$. No half sized, 2" caliper, unhealthy, crappy shape, or anything else. You had a GREAT TREE before 1 AM this morning. To mitigate the damage REQUIRES a GREAT TREE. Mitigating the damage is EXACTLY the function of an insurance company is supposed to serve.

    JMHO
    Arktrees

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    I am curious to hear what the arborist has to say.

  • poaky1
    9 years ago

    If nothing else, the great shade you had/have should be worth alot. And the moderate /slow growth of Burr oak, should make allowance for getting a nice size tree covered by your neighbors insurance. If It were my tree I would be tempted to put that black tar pruning wound sealer, if you are going to wait and see if the tree heals, but maybe that would hold in moisture? That may be killing it with kindness though.

  • dricha
    9 years ago

    James Tuttle is supposed to be pretty good. I would be more concerned about any decay near the base of the tree. You don't want any decay below ground level. I would remove the grass and see how far down the damage is.

  • cattyles
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I met with someone from James Tuttle's tree service. He took a look at the tree and said he didn't bring enough tree paint for such a big wound. I had spent the day fighting my dad off from spraying the tree with something he got at Walmart. I said I thought that was no longer recommended. He shrugged and said suit yourself, but Oak Wilt is in Lubbock (30 miles East of here).

    He was very nice, made great recommendations for trimming my other trees and wrote out an estimate. He said Mr. Tuttle would email the value of the bur oak for insurance purposes to me but it would be $6000-8000.

    dricha, I will remove the grass at the base of the tree tomorrow so I can examine it really well. It does look like it goes down further than I thought. I have always clipped the grass around the trees by hand to keep from banging the trees with the mower. Should I do something different if the wound is very close to the base? Should I call and request that Mr. Tuttle come take a look and give his recommendation?

    Poaky, I am a little tempted, too. I will have to keep an eye on my dad. He lives in the little guest house in the back yard and he gets up way early to fill the 20 bird feeders and he is itching to use the pruning spray.

    I think I'm disappointed. It would have been great for the tree guy to get out of his truck wearing a cape, do a surgical scrub with the hose, snap on some gloves and stitch that bark right back on.

    Arktrees, would you be willing to represent me on contingency?

    This post was edited by cattyles on Fri, May 9, 14 at 22:36

  • calliope
    9 years ago

    I don't think anyone could have said it better than Arktrees. It doesn't make one bit of difference how anybody else feels about trees. That was a great tree and it not only made an impact on the property value, being located in a state noted for heat and sun was valuable as a shade source. I'd also expect to have a larger replacement installed ...........with a tree spade............regardless and not settle for some little whip. They should be thrilled at the prospect of a few thousand dollars and consider they got off cheap.

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    Ultimately, whether they "understand" your love of trees or not, it is still PROPERTY DAMAGE. If someone has a classic car that is wrecked by some drunk, nobody questions its value. Why not a tree?

  • arktrees
    9 years ago

    Others have touched on the lose of shade, and that is something I missed in my previous posts. The lose of shade on your house will significantly increase your cooling cost in summer, which is in effect damages as well. The value of this damage will increase year after year as the tree would have grow year after year, PLUS the cost of electricity increases year after year. Make sure to include this 10 years of increased costs in the damages which should be more than the cost of a replacement tree itself. This is all part of making them understand that you will be "the expensive pain in the ass" or they can give you what you want now for less money.

    FWIW, I am just a guy that greatly prefers to be "nice", and very much wants to get along with others. I'm just a guy that doesn't allow being screwed over without a fight. I understand that many have no regard for those feelings, and companies in particular typically have ZERO regard for those feelings and in fact use those against those that have them. Therefore I understand that one must have the ability and understanding to deal with them in a like manner. So when the cable is screwing up, and they want me to take off work for them, I start to explain to them hos much I'm going to charge them for doing so (you do have that legal option and they know it) at which point they say "what time did you say you get home again?". Or the car sales people, are lying through their teeth, you have to walk out the door, and then the next day they will call and give you what you told them they were going to do in the first place, then charge them another $250 for wasting your time the day before. You have to be able to set the emotions aside to win, and remember they have no emotions to hurt. Just cold hard results. They don't like it, so freakin what. They don't care that you loved your tree. After it's done, you can get on with loving and caring for your new tree, and they can get on with swindling the next person.

    All this is just my opinion from dealing with this kind of thing over the years. There are a few companies out there, even insurance companies, that aren't like this, but they are the rare exception. But if you find one, make sure to support them.

    Arktrees

  • cattyles
    8 years ago


    Update!


    I thought I would let you all see how Mr. Bur looks one year later. The wound looks good to me other than that portion at the top; it doesn't have that nice, thick "scar" like the rest.

    Also, when you look at the long shot, it's not quite as full and robust.

    What do y'all think?


    Thank you again for all of your support last year. All of you on Trees are the greatest!


    Lesley

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks for the update. Has the drunk guy learned his lesson?

    I think your tree is on its way to recovery. The way threes grow I would expect less encapsulation at the top. And yeah, it is probably a little thinner since 1/2 the transport system was disrupted. I imagine myself having to use one lung for a bit.

    Curious, you said previously they were going to cover the exposed wound. Do you remember what they used?

  • cattyles
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Well, he lives just far enough away - about a block and a half - to be easily ignored. But I was told he was a multiple offender and went away for a bit. We can hope.

    Do you think the tree has a better chance or still about 50/50, Tornado3800? We finally broke our drought here and I like to think that may have helped.

    The insurance claim will stay open for five years. So, I didn't have to make a decision about the tree right away. Gonna give it a chance. :)

  • cattyles
    8 years ago

    Tornado - they ended up not using anything at all. James Tuttle, the arborist, didn't come out himself. His assistant came instead. He didn't bring enough "stuff" for a wound that big, he said. So, it stayed uncovered. I watered really deeply with a slow, slow soaker hose twice a week until we started getting all of our rain. That's it, other than some hugs and pep talks (after dark, but for real).

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago

    Good amount of wound wood formation....that's good. Not so good-the lack of same at top and bottom of wound, which is entirely to be expected, the "fourth wall" of the tree compartmentalization model being the weakest and most easily breached by decay organisms. In simplistic terms, this is why there are so many healthy trees which are completely hollow. Such a fate could await your tree too, but there is nothing to be done about it. Crown looks healthy, and that's encouraging.

    +oM

  • bengz6westmd
    8 years ago

    Shows how tough oaks are -- many trees wouldn't have survived that. Don't worry about the exposed wood -- it looks dry, and burr oak wood is very durable when kept dry.

  • cattyles
    8 years ago

    Last year it made just a few stunted acorns without the fuzzy hats. This year:

    lots of big acorns that look normal. Thanks all, for the encouragement. I am feeling better about his recovery!

  • subtropix
    8 years ago

    Most of the trees that I have put into the ground have gotten rutted by deer the first season. Almost like a rite of initiation into the neighborhood. (Took me a while to learn about protecting with tree guards, though this will not work for drunk drivers.) Most deer damage btw is a lot less traumatic than what your tree had to endure. Usually, not nearly as wide as what your tree sustained. Still, have been so bummed out by trunk damage to..., Magnolias, Gingko, Atlas Cedars (both the vertical and the weeping variety of Cedar). I always just assumed the tree would DIE and would have to be replaced..., but all have sealed over (except for the last one damaged; a weeping Atlas).

0
Sponsored
Steadfast Construction
Average rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars34 Reviews
Arlington County's Experienced Custom Deck Builder I Best of Houzz