Thanks!

I am shocked how FAST Sandersville is. And how slow some of the others appear to be...but it looks like they were larger transplants (and need more establishment time), is that correct?

Sandersville might have some hybrid vigor going on...it is thought to be a barbatum x saccharum hybrid.

Sandersville may be worth planting evenum in colder areas for the growth rate alone. I have read reports of 4' per year, and your tree seems to confirm. Is this just the second year in the ground?

By the way, where did you get your Sandersville AKA Harvest moon?

By the way, where did you get your Sandersville AKA Harvest moon?

I take it the leucoderme and skutchii are dead? Haha.

I have one Black Maple seedling...well, the seed supplier says black, but the leaves look more like Sugar. Leaves have some damage due to user error...but it appears healthy otherwise. Here is a pic.

I also have some Scarlet and Swamp Chestnut oak seedlings as well as a few others.

This post was edited by hairmetal4ever on Thu, May 29, 14 at 20:09

Yes, hair, the Sandersville was planted in fall of 2012. Last year in its first growing season, it grew a little over 2' on the lower shoots. I read that same cultivar pdf that you probably did, and I sure hope I can get 3'+ for about 10 years LOL!

I bought it from ForestFarm btw.

The winter killed my skutchii and leucoderme even though the leucoderme should have been hardy. It came from Florida and likely a Florida seed source. I'll probably try again from a North Carolina seed source next time.

I'm done with skutchii unfortunately.

I have a few yellowing seedlings this year, too. I suspect it is either too much water or the soil is too basic/too high ph.

Good luck with your black maple and oak seedlings! I would also give your black maple seedlings more time to develop before making a final judgement as to a definitive species ID =)

I might try my hand at some Chalk Maples from seed next spring. Sheffield's has some 2011 crop seed from Georgia on hand. From what I've read, Acer saccharum stays viable for a good 5-10 yrs if stored properly, so I'd expect a decent germination rate from that.

GA seed could be anywhere - if from around Atlanta, it should be fairly hardy, if it's from S. GA, maybe not so much.

hair,
Since you are such a good poster and start many threads I will throw in a few pics for you. My Sugar Maples are VERY happy at the moment. But most everything I have that is established is rather happy at the moment. All photos taken today.

First up is 'Fall Fiesta' a.k.a. "Bailsta" Sugar Maple. I have found new shoots to about 30" long toward the top half of the canopy. Most shoots 18-20" or so. Foliage as you can see is dense and green. Tree was planted as a 7 or 10 gallon 1" caliper about 7-8' tall in November 2007. Height has probable doubled, but the volume has increased a great deal more than that. Height would have been more, but it lost it's terminal bud two years in a row, so add 2-4' for those setbacks on height. Was 4.7" caliper last fall.

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Below is a closeup of the foliage. Hardly a blemish.

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My second Sugar Maple is Commemoration. Planted early June 2007. Not the ideal time to plant especially in the south, but hey, I got away with it. ;-) Basically, that was when it was available, take it or leave it, and they were gone a couple days later. This tree actually was a Schmidt tree at Lowes of all places. About a 1-1.5" caliper tree (I didn't measure then), and 10' or so in a 7-10 gallon container. It is now probable 14-15' tall, 4.4" caliper last fall. It also had an EXTREMELY heavy seed year in 2012, and basically did not grow at all, and had small leaves. This year there are shoots to 18-20" long, but most are about 15". Commemoration does not grow as fast for me as Bailsta. BUT, IMHO it has one of the nicest Orange fall colored SM, and much longer lasting most years. The leaves are smaller, but I don't think I've seen a denser green leaf on ANYTHING.

Here is most of the canopy. Commemoration is more of a globe shape to the canopy.

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And again near perfect leaves.

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Now I have a quiz for you. Can you identify these five seedling trees. And NO they are not that. They are a perfectly legal tree. :-)

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Hope you liked the pics we gave you to feed your tree addiction.

Arktrees

Beautiful trees! I wish two caddos were looking this good.

I may have to get some new ones or seeds and start fresh this fall.

Like the tree addiction pics very much, guys!

I have no idea what those seedlings are Ark but they're good looking.

I'll guess something in the Acer palmatum/japonicum/shirasawanum realm? Maybe A. pseudosieboldanum?

Nice pics, Ark.

What's interesting about sugar maples in particular - the various cultivars (and the same variations exist of course among seedling trees) can have quite a notable difference in leaf shape, yet still identify as sugar maple to anyone who knows at least a little bit about trees.

The Bailsta has nice leaves - just a tad different, but I can't quite describe why.

Ohhh Ark, nice! Acer pentaphyllum! I have one. ;-)

Nice pics gents!

Ark do you have fairly acidic soil? I see what looks like a variegated kousa dogwood in full sun.

Do you typically see multiple growth flushes on your sugar maples? Seems to me, young Acer rubrums often flush twice, saccharums are more reluctant to do so, but every once in a while I see it.

Lou, you are correct on the ID. Acer Acer pentaphyllum. Very rare, and VERY VERY endangered species. There may only be one small wild population left in a very small area that is not at all well protected. These are seed grown, germinated in March of this year. They are probable not cold hardy here, but then again I don't think anybody really knows how cold hardy they are. Probable because they are so rare that nobody wants to risk it. I intent to keep one that will spend winters in my garage, and then one might go to the local botanical garden, and the rest will eventually end up in warmer climes.

hair, I agree the leaves are different on Bailsta, To me they look kinda "smoothed out" with with muted lobes, edges etc. The Commemoration has a much more classic Sugar Maple leaf shape to me. With SM I get a single very rapid flush of growth in the spring, and then they are done for the year. This flush can be enhanced with a strong shot of nitrogen at the proper time, and I in fact do this. I found a research paper from a couple decades ago that showed SM responded well to this, without adverse effects on wood strength, density, etc. But I'm careful not to over do it, as too much can contribute to disease/insect problems. I certainly do not use as much as tree farms to get the amount of growth that they can get in a year (it can be seen in the branching and bark for the last few years if you know what to look for). At this point I am likely done with fertilizer for this year even for the lawn. Seems to interfere with fall color.

ghostlyvision, Lou, Elektron,
Glad you like the pics that John and I was able to provide. GV aren't you in SE Texas somewhere. I remembered Lou moved toward Houston. Elektron IIRC is near San Antonio. Looks there some real good rain down you way last week. Been rooting for west Ok, and Texas to get well watered. It certainly benefits me if you do, because that helps keep that hell ridge away, and that is good for all of us.

whass, Yes fairly strongly acidic soil as is most places in my area. IIRC the pH was in the 5.5-6.0 range. You would not expect this knowing that the hills around are made of mostly limestone, but we also have fairly high precip resulting in generally acidic soils. And you are correct, that is Cornus kousa Wolfeyes that will eventually be shaded by the Bailsta. I was looking at ordering a small graft last year of "Summer Fun" or "Wolfeyes". So late in about September after the worst of summer had past, I was at a local nursery, and it so happened that they had both of these in B&B in similar size, and basically in full sun all summer. The Wolfeyes had a very small amount of burn, the Summer Fun had much more burn, so I bought a 1 yr graft of Wolfeyes. October rolls around, and at another nursery I do not frequent, and they had 10 B&B Wolfeyes that were fantastic, had not sold any all year, and they badly wanted to make me a deal to buy one. And the rest is history as you can see. So far it has no burn in full sun, but it was only planted last fall, and we have not yet hit the demanding time of our climate. July and August will tell the story. But so far so good, and I am hopeful because I know I will take better care of it, than the nursery that I saw both WE and SF at last year. Below are a couple pics of the Wolfeyes taken a couple weeks ago.

Arktrees

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This post was edited by arktrees on Sun, Jun 1, 14 at 12:56

Ark,

My brother grew pentaphyllum maples from seeds and gave one to me. He gave the rest of seedlings to Stephen F Austin Arboretum a couple years ago. Hope they are still alive and well.

I live west of Austin where it is basically feast or famine when it comes to rainfall so it will be quite a challenge for me some years when it goes dry. Limestone everywhere...

Wolfeyes looks awesome. Only if i had better soil and extra rainfall...

So - what's the "right timing" of the nitrogen boost??

I take it a slow-release or CRF is NOT the way to go if you want good fall color? What do you use?

About the time there is the first hint of bud swelling. I fertilize a ring around the tree. Calculate the area, and shoot for 60lbs nitrogen/acre for that small area. Then I will usually end up fertilizing the lawn about the time the growth spurt slows, and I will take an extra trip around these trees, and they will normally add a bit more growth. I use a mix of slow release, and fast release fertilizer. I also spread some compost around in the zone as well to help provide micro-nutrients. It is best to do this when the soil is not overly moist, as you need water to transport the Nitrogen to the root zone. So I apply, then water in with a sprinkler. I try to do this just before expected rain.

Arktrees

Yep Ark, just north of Houston, and yep again on the rainfall, we had a few dry weeks a couple weeks ago but before and after have had decent, nearly normal rainfall (9 inches over 3 days, that's pretty typical, feast or famine lol) but all the plants are loving it. Just starting to hit 90 daily but it's better than in the recent past of hitting it and higher in Feb. or early March. Maybe if I keep doing the nightly raindances we'll have as beautiful and cool Fall season as we did Spring. No thanks necessary. ;)

That wolfeyes is simply gorgeous!

I'm a little to the northwest of Fort Worth. We have had a couple inches of rain the last month or so, but it has been a pretty dry year so far. Hopefully we can get some weak tropical systems to move this way this summer.

Again, love the pics and all the great info. everyone has.

I would really love to see some fall foliage photos ; )

Treebird, a couple of my trees have begun the fall show. Once I get more pics as the season progresses, I will post them for you :)

John

Hiawatha pics

Here is a link that might be useful: Looking pretty good

That seems a bit early for down there in AR, John.

We're about the same level of color here. A few Sugar Maples coloring nicely, a smaller percentage of red maples as well, plus blackgums.

Sweetgums have some hints of color on the outer leaves and the ashes are starting.