In Salt Lake, all of the nurserys order in stock from Oregon or Washington, as far as I know nobody grows trees/shrubs locally. After a certain amount of time all of what they have ordered has come and when something sells out they are out of it until the next year. They will not get freshly dug up stock all summer long. So if I want a new tree and don't manage to get it in the spring is it really better to have that tree that I would buy in the fall sit out of the ground at the nursery all summer rather than buying it and planting it now and just giving it the extra attention it needs to grow well? Or in my situation is the only "best" time to plant a tree is when I can basically pull it off the truck from Oregon at my nursery?

Maybe I am just thinking about this too much but I do tend to be a curious fellow.

Thanks
Sanctified

It's all a game of odds; plants probably have a higher success rate if they're planted dormant, but if you plant when they're fully leafed, just take full responsibility for it by fully meeting its irrigation needs based on your soil.

Well, you need to keep the origin of this theory in mind. In the "olden days" nursery stock was all dug and sold bare root or field balled & burlap on the spot. So, it was going to experience shock from having roots disturbed, no way around that, but the way to minimize this shock was to do it when the plant was dormant or just coming out of or going into dormancy. This translated into winter, very early spring, or mid to late fall as the season to transplant, depending somewhat on both species and locality.

But the nursery industry has evolved with time. Anymore, field dug b&b upon demand is pretty rare, because mass transportation has made shipment from distant locations practical. Of course, some local nurseries still do this, but it's not as common and as a rule tends to be bigger sized plants that are sold to landscapers and less often individually to homeowners, although that certainly does happen, too.

Far more nursery stock today is sold containerized (potted) than any other way, some is sold b&b that has been done months ago when dormant, giving the plant time to recover. The entire concept behind this is to give everyone a much wider window of opportunity to plant.

But not without controversy, as there are differing opinions as to whether planting in between the "ideal" seasons is OK. Some people have no problems with it, some people think its the worst possible thing you can do, a lot of people are in between. I personally think its just fine to plant containerized stock any time the soil can be dug as long as you care for it after you plant it.

Getting back to your question of "is it better to let the nursery care for the plant I want all season?" -- that depends on A) how good of a job the nursery does taking care of its plants; B) how likely are the to still have the plant you want when fall rolls around if you wait; C) how good of a job would YOU do taking care of it if you went ahead and bought it, and finally D) does this plant need some extra attention to the root system such as root pruning and removal of circling roots from being long-term in a pot that really shouldn't be done in mid-summer?

I would say that, 90% of the time, you are just as well off, if not better off, buying it and either planting it directly or up-potting it to a larger size to hold until fall. If the tree needs a little minor root pruning to plant it, that should be OK even in summer, and you can always do a little minor top pruning to compensate. If you find it needs major surgery, then you might want to wait until the safe fall planting time when climate cools and tree is going into dormancy above the soil line -- remember that roots grow much longer into the winter season because the soil is warmer than the air. If you have concerns about your ability to keep it watered in the summer, that you might forget, this is where a cheap water timer and a cheap drip kit come in handy, you should be able to pick up both for under $50 total at any garden center.

And, if you wait, they might not have it by fall.

I say go for it.

if you want to near foolproof status.. you increase the odds of success.. SUBSTANTIALLY ... by doing it.. as noted.. in dormancy ... when the plant is basically asleep.. to reduce.. the SHOCK of planting ... in my z5.. that is mid fall.. and as soon as the ground thaws near 4/1 ... fall planting giving you two cool seasons to grow roots.. before the plant comes active.. or in spring.. 8 to 10 weeks.. before the first heat wave ...

now.. if you are a highly experienced gardener.. and understand COMPLETE AFTERCARE... and can focus on that without interruption [no vacations.. or hiring peeps to water.. and no forgetting] .. thru the heatwaves.. you can do other things ...

but when i talk about it.. and i am usually the one saying PROPER PLANTING TIME ... its all about the newbie.. increasing the odds of success .. as easily as possible ..

the problem with most newbies.. is that they come out in june.. thinking about having the family over for a picnic.. and decide to plant some trees.. when i was out there 2 to 3 months ago ... in june.. its fully leafed out.. pumping water hard to offset heat.. and then all of a sudden planting interferes and suspends water pumping.. and the next thing you know.. all the leaves brown.. or fall off ..

i like to teach about the garden ... and for newbies ... to understand PROPER PLANTING.. PROPER TIMING.. AND PROPER AFTERCARE ... IS REALLY KEY TO MAKING IT VERY SIMPLE TO SUCCEED ...

the fact that you are actually contemplating such [as compared to gazing at your navel .. lol] ..means you want to learn.. and you want to succeed .. so make it easy on yourself.. and the tree ...

so go to it ... and dont forget.. you can buy it now.. but that doesnt mean.. it is best to go plant it now ... the real hardcore.. ALWAYS have a couple dozen plants.. sitting around in summer.. waiting for fall planting.. heck.. some of us.. still have last years.. lol ... and the years before.. [that aint good.. lol] ...

ken

Arktrees

I am worried about being able to find the stock that I want (Bur and/or Northern Red Oaks) that look decent in the fall when temps drop and bit and it is more conducive to planting.

Ken, you said that you have plants sitting around waiting to be planted. I imagine that they take the same or more attention unplanted than planted. Are you waiting to plant because they need to be root trimmed and you want to wait until dormancy to do that or because you just haven't gotten around to it?

The main reason that I have been thinking about all this is because I lost two of my three sycamores this year. I bought them on super clearance in fall 2010 for $25 each and they were big (15'-18') for their container. I didn't know anything about root pruning and just planted them circling roots and all. The funny thing about it is that the tree that lived had been dug and chewed up by my two great danes.

How would I care for a tree if I bought it now for fall planting? Hide the container from the sun so it doesn't heat up to much and water it?

Every one of my 20 trees, 7 trees in one grouping, 8 trees in another and 5 other trees spaced out individually in my yard, are fenced in to protect them from the dogs that roam around here out in the country. Apparently my neighbors have the silly notion that we pay our property taxes so that their dogs can use our yard to happily run through and occasionally use at their personal toilet.

OP, read my post called "hardening Off" as Ken answers your questions in that post of how to hold a plant off til fall. That way he doesn't have to post the same answer twice.

I am with you ...if you found a perfect hard to find specimen that may be gone in fall, just plant it now. Its better off in the ground rather than above ground. As long as you can care for it, anyone who argues that point should be banned from gardening.

My caveats are that you don't disturb the roots and can readily find the flare. If you can't then skip it or plan to dig it back up at dormancy to adjust.

The whole point of planting in spring and fall is that you can disturb the roots.

I guess they play to the lowest common denominator (the average Joe who has no idea about when its best to plant).

- For most types of freshly-dub/B&B trees, it's not really about when you plant, but about when the plant was dug, the care it receives up until it's planted, and what has to be done with the root system when it's planted. I think one reason opinions, about when is best to plant, vary so much is because the wrong things are often considered and the truly important variables are not fully appreciated.

- Most pot-grown trees and shrubs, that are not potbound and do not require significant root manipulation, can be planted in summer with about the same success rate as ones planted in spring or fall (assuming reasonable, not special, care).

- It is seldom a good idea to let a plant set around waiting to be planted. The plant and your busy schedule almost always suffer when a plant has to be "held" until planted.

===>> talking about deciduous trees.. if you plant now.. and stress it wildly.. all the leaves can fall off.. and odds are it can releaf.. buy you are using stored energy .. with a root system that is questionable... and the harm might come next spring.. when its stores of energy .. lacking.. cant leaf the whole tree out.. we see many a post where half the canopy is dead.. PERHAPS.. that is why ...

also conifers are trees.. so though 'evergreen' .. you will wonder why it all browned next spring ...

you said: Ken, you said that you have plants sitting around waiting to be planted. I imagine that they take the same or more attention unplanted than planted. Are you waiting to plant because they need to be root trimmed and you want to wait until dormancy to do that or because you just haven't gotten around to it?

===> i buy small .. which means small root systems.. i have 5 acres.. of sand.. which trees love ...

it has happened.. too often ... where i plant something 350 feet from the house.. and sooner or later.. i forget about it ... otherwise.. the pots are all right out the front door .. or all collected together.. and i can walk out to the group .. near a hose.. and take care of them all in 5 minutes..

and yes.. most need to be bare rooted.. and some intertwined roots need to be cut.. and that is best done.. in dormancy ...

YOU SAID: How would I care for a tree if I bought it now for fall planting? Hide the container from the sun so it doesn't heat up to much and water it?

yes.. trees like cool roots.. black pots in sun get real hot.. not good ...

as to water.. water when they dry .. trees.. unlike perennials/annuals.. do NOT like to be sodden all the time...

the tree itself can be in sun.. but not the pot ... even just placing them on the north side of a bale of hay.. keeps the pots out of sun ...

===>> when i moved here.. thru my hosta club.. i found a guy who owned a 500 acre tree farm .. 250 miles away ... and in april.. i trekked there.. and bought 10 oaks.. out of his cooler.. bare root .. and ran home and planted them in the first week of april ... and they had the 5 to 10 weeks requisite to start pumping water. before the heat of summer hit ... and they needed to be watered.. after PROPER MULCHING.. ABOUT every week or so ..

you need to start calling tree farms.. and find out when they plant their trees.. meaning they are getting deliveries of trees.. and ORDER some trees.. precisely for planting at the PROPER PLANTING TIME ...

you are fixated on whats 'available' .. rather than searching out the pros.. who can order you specifically what you want.. when you need it ...

whass is right.. the fall planting window.. is somewhat specific to the MI area.. you need to research that for your area.. and in calling the tree farm guys.. you can ID the specific time for your area.. if not your county extension office.. who might be able to give you leads to those peeps.. you might also want to check websites for you state forestry division ...

and finally .. i have NEVER found a nursery man.. who will not.. for a small down payment.. 'tag' plants.. for digging at the proper planting time ... they are usually impressed that you know what the heck you are talking about.. rather than 'forcing' him to do what he knows is not right ...

and do not rule out mail order ... as i said.. i start small ... read that 'cheap' .. IMHO.. a 4 foot whip for $20 .. will outgrow a $250 8 footer ... inside 5 years.. and whips can be mail ordered ...

ken