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stevecapecod

Magnolia leaves are curled

stevecapecod
10 years ago

My 10-year old magnolia bush/tree(think the name was "saucer") bloomed as usual this year, but most of the leaves are now curled(see photos). I've checked the inside of the curled leaves for bugs and haven't seen any. Just to make sure I sprayed it yesterday with Captain Jack's Deadbug (spinosad). Any other suggestions/diagnoses? The tree has been very healty every year. Thanks in advance.

Comments (39)

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    Looks like herbicide damage.

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    It wasn't sprayed with anything(not to my knowledge, anyway) until yesterday. The curling's been there for weeks. Do magnolias get leaf curl disease?

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    If nothing was applied on your site that you are aware of it could still have blown in from nearby, particularly if there are any agricultural operations in the neighborhood.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    10 years ago

    that weed free lawn ... or next door was not sprayed???

    saucer is a common name for mag's ... google : saucer magnolia... to get its latin name ...

    he is on the cape... salt water damage??? ... and recent storms???

    ken

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Yes, I'm on the Cape but we have storms here all the time. Nothing unusual this year. No unusual ag work in the neighborhood either, other than replanting of grass near the tree this spring. I didn't use anything other than starter fert on the grass, so that shouldn't have caused it. It's mystifying.

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    If you used sod then maybe it had been treated with a broadleaf herbicide before being cut and brought to your site.

    If purchased compost was used as part of the lawn renovation maybe it contained residual herbicide.

    Here is a link that might be useful: The Myth of Clean Compost

    This post was edited by bboy on Sun, Jun 23, 13 at 0:56

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hmm. Interesting article. I reseeded to within about 5 feet of the magnolia. Instead of topsoil, I used compost from a local, reputable place. Have done that before with good results. I'll check with them to see if the compost is treated, but even if it is, none of it came close enough to the magnolia to affect it.

  • RugbyHukr
    10 years ago

    If you recently installed new lawn, you probably have watered abundantly to help it establish. The excessive amounts of water required to establish the lawn may have stressed the tree.

    Too much water can inhibit the natural processes of the tree.

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    That could be a factor, although I angled my sprinklers to hit just the seeded area, not the tree. But some spillover could have affected it. By that logic, since I've stopped regularly watering the area, shouldn't the leaves uncurl themselves?

  • Dzitmoidonc
    10 years ago

    Well, I'm a farm boy who has no training in botany, but I would be willing to bet a load of hay that the tree exhibits chemical damage. Drowning makes leaves black, drought makes them brown, and chemicals make them twist and curl like an end plague of aphids. Assuming the undersides aren't coated with scale or other insects, I would suspect spray or something put down in the root zone.

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, prior to spreading the compost and reseeding the new lawn area, I used Roundup to kill the original layer of grass/weeds. But the sprayline didn't get closer than 8 feet to the magnolia; no where near the drip line.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    10 years ago

    The drip line is no magical cut-off point - the root system of established trees extend well beyond the limits of their canopies. Sometime as much as 2-3 times the canopy spread. Since the majority of their fine feeder roots are located in this outer perimeter, herbicidal products applied in this area could certainly have an affect. Magnolias are notorious for having very shallow roots as well......I think you may have your answer :-)

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Okay, let's say the Roundup is the culprit. Can the magnolia recover?

  • kenptn
    10 years ago

    Are you sure there was no herbicide spraying in your area? County or utility ROW? It sure looks like 2,4,D damage, not Roundup. I see damage like that every spring here when the no till farmers spray their fields with 2,4-D, but never later when they use Roundup. The Magnoliaceae are extremely susceptible to herbicides.

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I'm certain there is no herbicide spraying around here. We live in a quiet, semi-rural neighborhood and would have been informed(hopefully) of anything like that.

  • RugbyHukr
    10 years ago

    "Drowning makes leaves black, drought makes them brown, and chemicals make them twist and curl like an end plague of aphids."

    Is way too general of a statement. Trees cannot uptake water if there is none in the soil. They also cannot uptake water if the soil is too saturated. One first reaction a tree will have when it can no longer take in water is to curl its leaves to reduce the water loss through transpiration.

    I am not saying that is the problem, but curled leaves could mean any of a variety of issues.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Round-up not active in soil, won't harm roots

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, that article seems to eliminate Roundup as the cause. Still a mystery.

  • Dzitmoidonc
    10 years ago

    "Drowning makes leaves black, drought makes them brown, and chemicals make them twist and curl like an end plague of aphids."

    Yes, a general statement, but have you ever seen a plant that has root problems from too much or too little water get curled green leaves? One example?

    Roundup is absorbed by leaves, not roots. Any leaf that gets hit and does not die still gets brown spots where the spray landed, not twists in the leaves on the whole tree.

    The damage in the picture is classic herbicide damage. Maybe the twp. was spraying around culverts, telephone pole or something. I live amidst corn and soybean fields. You can detect 2,4-D with a whiff of air 2 days later, if you recognize the smell. If you don't know, it is just a funky smell. And boy does this look like 2,4-D.

    One other cause of similar leaf curl (but not so evenly similar) is Magnolia scale. These are small bumps on the tree that 'bleed' red when you move them. I wonder if the OP has checked the twigs?

  • RugbyHukr
    10 years ago

    Yes, I have seen leaf curl from a tree trying to protect itself from excessive water loss. It is a natural response that will happen before leaf discoloration from lack of chlorophyll.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Article on water stress with symptom of leaf curl

  • RugbyHukr
    10 years ago

    Here is another on the topic.

    Trees with thin leaves tend to wilt under water stress, and those with thick leaves curl.

    Maybe you are too far north to have seen as much as I see in California. Have you seen Rhododendron roll like that? They are a common thick leaf plant that gets curled when water stressed.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Article of flooded trees with symptom leaf curl

  • Dzitmoidonc
    10 years ago

    Hi again, Rugbyhukr. Your first link talks about curling with wilt: " In addition to wilting, leaves may curl or warp, become crinkly, turn brown along the edges (scorch), turn yellow, turn brown, and/or fall from the tree."

    In addition to wilting it says. No way are the leaves even a little bit wilted on the Magnolia pictured by the OP.

    The second link that talks about water stress says: "...... yellowing or browning of leaves, leaf curling and pointing downward, leaf wilting......"

    Again, a whole list of symptoms, including curling and pointing downward, probably caused by wilting.

    The point is, water stress will cause curling on thicker leaves like a Rhododendron. I see it all the time in the winter. I have about a dozen Rhodies here, and every winter I think they won't recover after a cold spell. (Cold dries the leaves.) The OP says the Magnolia could be a "saucer" Magnolias. Those do not have the thicker leaves like grandiflora and even virginiana. I have a saucer-type here, and water stress causes wilt, not curl.

    I may be from the frozen north, but I also have about 200 species of trees and shrubs here that I planted. I watch them through drought and late frosts, through floods and hurricanes. I saw Chionanthus and Larix drown one day when water covered the roots for a few hours. I also farmed for many years, worked on farms in ME, FL, AZ and PA before that. I sprayed and watched that too, and I remain convinced that the symptoms are herbicide damage. I certainly can't offer a for-sure name for the chemical because so many new ones come out all the time. I gave up my applicator's license about 10yrs. ago, but the symptoms are not new, just classic.

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    Despite the dogma at least a few instances have been documented where applications of glyphosate around trees were followed by damage or death. No herbicide was applied to the stems or foliage.

  • RugbyHukr
    10 years ago

    Noted.

    My point was (or I intended to be) was that you cannot jump to the assumption of herbicide damage. Trees have similar responses to a variety of ills.

    Is the tree affected on only one side? That would lend credence to herbicide drift. If it is the entire tree, the herbicide nearby would be a coincidence.

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    No, Rugby, the damage is on all sides of the magnolia. Not all of the leaves are affected but I'd estimate about 80% ARE. I've attached another photo to show the mixture of mostly-bad leaves with a few good ones.
    Another thought: when the compost was delivered for the grass seeing near the magnolia, the truck backed over a section of lawn that would include part of the magnolia roots. There are still impressions in the grass. Could that possibly have caused this?

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    No, compaction is not going to cause this response.

  • stevecapecod
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, I've sprayed the entire tree for disease(using Daconil) and bugs (Captain Jack's) since noticing the leaf curl. It hasn't disappeared, nor has it worsened.

  • denwall627
    8 years ago

    Looks like a root fungus called verticilium wilt...no cure & usually is accompanied by drought. Once it is in the soil it is very difficult to get out. If the tree dies and you need to replace it I would not replace it with anything that is susceptible to verticilium

  • Michelle Mantonya
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I have 14 yr. old Magnolia grandiflora. It has grown perfectly ever since I planted it ten years ago.. It has bloomed beautifully for the last three years. We have had average to to below average rainfall every year except this year. So far, we've gotten well above average rainfall. Most of it falling in the last two months. My tree is the same way this spring only. It has no bugs, no chemicals or other additives to the soil or foliage. No runoff or drifting chemicals. Old leaves are normal, only new leaves on every branch are affected. Blooms are unaffected. Could this excessively wet spring be the culprit?

  • lamotz87
    7 years ago

    My magnolia bush has the same thing happening year. Has been planted for 10 years now. Nothing has changed in my yard. No chemicals! But we have had lots of rain this spring. Any suggestions? What can I spray on it to help?

  • evan83
    6 years ago

    Evan from New Zealand here. I have exactly the same problem. My tree is a Magnolia Stelata. The photos on here look identical to the damage on my tree. I can rule out herbicide or any other chemical damage. I find the latest two or three responses very interesting. We have had the wettest winter/spring on record. The other cause that I suspected was a root fungal problem caused by removing a tree three years ago next to the magnolia and the stump is still present. I worked in the forest industry where a disease called armillaria can kill radiata pine when it is established in areas where the indigenous trees and woody shrubs are removed. It is a root fungal disease. I suspect there is little I can do to save the tree.

  • hambone_smith
    6 years ago

    Another message from someone in New Zealand. Got the same issue with my magnolia, noticed a little bit a few years back but this year has been particularly wet and I removed some established trees nearby (no spray issues etc). It has spread to neighbouring native trees I have recently planted.

  • Mike McGarvey
    6 years ago

    I used to pick up grass clippings from a guy who mowed lawns. I would use the clippings as mulch. One time the mulch killed all my azaleas I had in a rowed out nursery bed. I found out the guy had used a broad leaved weed killer on the lawns he mowed. That's what killed my azaleas. I quit picking up his clippings after that. Any connection there, Steve?

  • Lorena Sekinger
    2 years ago

    So I have the same case with my Jane Magnolia I planted 3 years ago. I sprayed Round-up a week or two ago along the root line because of so much dandelions growing around it.
    And yes leaf curling happened after. The other Jane Magnolia I planted the same time on the other side of the house didn’t have any leaf curling at all. Difference is I didn’t spray Round- Up on this other one.

  • Lorena Sekinger
    2 years ago

    Here it is

  • arbordave (SE MI)
    2 years ago

    Which Roundup product did you use? Some contain more than one type of herbicide. Glyphosate alone can cause damage when sprayed on the soil surface if it makes direct contact with any surface roots. It's also important to be careful using broadleaf lawn weed killers within the potential root zone of sensitive plants.

  • Lorena Sekinger
    2 years ago

    I use the regular Round-Up weed killer spray. Also the Tea Rose bush I have sprayed around seemed like it is dying. I am not going to use Round-Up again. It is killing my plants :(

  • arbordave (SE MI)
    2 years ago

    Glyphosate based products can be used safely in mulched areas as long as care is exercised to avoid direct contact with any plant parts that could potentially absorb the product, which includes smaller roots near the soil surface. I use it all the time in tree rings and mulch beds with no ill effects.

  • Paul Dallas
    last year

    I had similar damage to my star magnolia soon after i sprayed hose end weed killer with 24d on the lawn right next to the plant. i think to wind blown overspray probably caused the damage

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