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| I have been attempting to figure out whether or not it will be safe to plant a couple of different junipers in my "death zone" near my mature black walnuts. Some things grow just fine there, others die.
SO much conflicting information out there. One publication or source will say X,Y, and Z will be killed or damaged by the toxin, the next source says X,Y, and Z grow just fine. I do know one plant I saw on several web pages listed as walnut sensitive, rhododendron/azalea, grows just fine under my trees, I've had a couple of them for over 20 years under there and they do fine. I was highly amused, though, to find out that the Roman author Pliny wrote about black walnut toxicity way back 1500 years before Columbus discovered the Americas. This per a West Virginia extension bulletin. Had they left out the word "black" I think they would have been correct. Anyway, I'm going to go for it. They were Lowes 75% off clearance, so about 5 bucks each. If they make it, fine, if not, no big deal.
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Follow-Up Postings:
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| My ex-father-in-law (RIP) grew tomatoes & other vegetables w/o problems under the canopy edge of an enormous B walnut. Go figure. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 13:06
| and if your horribly abused bargain plants die.. what conclusion will you come to .. near dead stock?? or the tree killed them??? hmmmm??? ken ps: i guess you will have to add planting conifers in july to the variables ... lol pps: i bet a nickel.. you make it work ... lol |
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- Posted by franktank232 z5 WI (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 15:13
| I got a 6 pack of frozen burgers dirt cheap and told my brother if its ground up horse meat, it was still a good deal. When it comes to cheap stuff, you really aren't out much if it works or not...although if I need my stomach pumped and an artery cleared, that could add up...good luck...stay cool.. Black walnuts? Can't believe the squirrels like those stinky nuts. |
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| Some of my best plants have come from clearance benches. I'm not too proud by any means. Also good for cheap filler material, as you point out, you're not out much. |
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- Posted by Dzitmoidonc 6 (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 17:03
| This being the land of Black Walnut weeds, there is conflicting info because there are conflicting observations. Rule of thumb for what never grows near J. nigra for me: conifers (Pine, Fir, Spruce, etc.) are out, Roses also will eventually die. Everything else depends on how close it is planted to which Black Walnut. Cherries of all kinds don't seem affected. Clover and many other broadleaved herbs also don't tolerate juglone. Crabapple will not grow near the big walnut here, but the same species Crab grows fine near the smaller tree. |
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| I wonder whether & to what extent soil qualities like clay vs. sand, drainage, moisture levels, etc..., impact juglone toxicity (such as how long it endures & to what extent it builds up in soil, and how readily it would be washed away), as well as factors such as rainfall & annual temp.s. Richard. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 18:24
| Some of my best plants have come from clearance benches. I'm not too proud by any means. ==>> i am up on that 100%. ... but did you understand the problem??? if they die.. was it the bargain.. or the tree ... i doubt you can prove anything about toxicity.. if you are buying near dead plants ... the only safe thing proven.. would be that they live for 2 decades.. and the toxicity was moot as to juniper .. and i also understand.. here in MI .. these are PROBABLY still pretty good stock ... its the ones in august.. that are near dead.. though i did stop by lowes the other day.. and many.. many.. of their conifers.. were not looking too good.. but that was the bigger ones.. the little turds still looked pretty chipper.. [technical term there.. i hope you understand it.. lol] ken |
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 20:02
| It is my.understanding drainage and yard maintenance play a part. That and I always assign a good healthy tree hit points like in D&D. Start with ten, throw in drought you lose four. Walnuts two more. Next comes transplant shock and aftercare. Then the 1D 10 saving throw. In short nothing seems absolute anymore. Just all a percentage game. Even with smoking and lung cancer. Seems like it should be a sure thing but hey, sometimes it doesnt work. |
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- Posted by strobiculate none (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 23:31
| part of the problem is the nature of the observations. they are just that, observations recorded and then parsed for meaning when many other factors are ignored. and while we know juglone exists and that there are potential problems in general, we have no way of rating it, of quantifying the data in any way that makes sense in any other situation. do all walnut trees produce the same amount of juglone? how dependent on environmental factors (ie, amount of rainfall) and jow does that corelate to efficacy. how does soil composition and pH affect a plant's tolerance. and how can i understand what a body of largely anecdotal information means for me? |
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| Well, my original intent in posting was merely to point out the discrepancies that exist in the information posted out there. Not being a scientist, I'm not trying to add to knowledge base one way or the other. LOL, I punted the ball -- I potted! I already have a dozen barrel planters of impatiens down there, what's a few more pots to water? And, as a bonus, when winter rolls around, I can now move these potted blue junipers to my little Christmastime potted evergreen display by my front door. Best of both worlds. |
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- Posted by tsugajunkie z5 SE WI (My Page) on Mon, Jul 2, 12 at 22:10
| "...conifers (Pine, Fir, Spruce, etc.) are out..." I'm growing Pinus densiflora and cembra without issue and I've seen Pinus strobus do well. Also Picea abies and omorika are under the canopy here. Chamaecyparis obtusa and pisifera likewise doing well along with Tsuga canadensis and Thuja occidentalis. tj |
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- Posted by Dzitmoidonc 6 (My Page) on Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 12:56
| Hey tj, can you send a few pics? There is a fellow here who started a mixed conifer planting near black walnuts. He planted small conifers, and after about 10 years, only a few spruce are left, and they have yet to get 4ft tall. My experience was costly since I bought weeping and exotic conifers. the longest lasting conifer was Japanese Larix which grew to about 10 ft and then one year it made thousands of cones and then died. I have never seen White Pine in proximity to Black Walnut, some of that stems from the fact that native conifers are few. Walnuts are one of the most common trees here, growing in line fences and along stream flows, and all are free from Multiflora Rose, a fact that hunters appreciate. |
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- Posted by tsugajunkie z5 SE WI (My Page) on Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 16:36
| Its 95 out so no pics today but from last year... All of the following are under the canopy and certainly in the root zone of a BW. The trunk of the 60 foot BW is about 30 feet to the left of this pic taken last summer. Included are Pinus densiflora, Picea omorika, Pinus cembra, Thuja occidentalis, Chamaecyparis pisifera and, now that I think of it, Juniperus horizontalis and squamata.
About 20 feet from the trunk: Tsuga canadensis 'Dawson' (last fall)
Everything has been there for at least 7 years, some 10-12 years. tj |
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