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ricksample

Looking for a shade tree

ricksample
9 years ago

Hi Everyone,
I'm looking for a shade tree and preferably one that's easy to find local or online. I've been visiting a few nurseries and they all seem to have B&B only for the type I'm looking for. I have clay... been their done that with a B&B tree... it's not happening again lol. I would really prefer seedlings or 1 or 2 gallon.

I was looking more towards Oak (not sure which kind) or Red Maple (Acer Rubrum). I need a total of 6 in the following locations:

2 Will go in a location that has great soil... great drainage no problem in front yard. One will be planted around 50' from house and the other about 100' from house.
1 Will go in a location that stays somewhat dryer somewhat on a slight incline in front yard about 80' from house.
3 Will go in a location that has poor drainage in back yard roughly 300' from house. This area isn't a swamp and doesn't stay bad year round. Just normally after winter when the snow melts and the rain showers take hold. I have a few other maples and oaks in this area and they seem to love it.

As much as I would hate to buy anything from HomeDepot... I think this may be my best option. They have Acer rubrum 'Red Sunset' 5 gallon for $50. The trees do look healthy this year plus a 1 year warranty. Does anyone have any experience with this tree? It's either this or I found some 2 gallon Acer Rubrum 'Brandywine' maples at Sooner Plant Farm, but after shipping your looking at around $70 a tree which is WAY overpriced. Plus the last time I ordered from Sooner the plants were little sticks even the two gallon size.

As for the Oaks... I have a few of what I think are oak seedlings in my flower beds but I'm unsure. I'll post these in another thread for review later. If these aren't oaks, I was thinking of just going to the parks or something to see if I could find some free oak seedlings.

I know absolutely nothing about Maples or Oaks... the purpose for these trees are for shade (we're tired of baking in the sun). I think we have 4 shade trees on 3.5 acres. But we also want something that will live for the next 50+ years without falling down in an ice storm or being damaged by bugs. I have a bradford pear... so you know what I'm talking about lol. I'm also open to other suggestions looking for something easily available... not rare.

Comments (11)

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    arent you in OH ...???

    if so.. road trip ... see link

    incredible oak farm ... near belleville OH .. aka manfield ...

    i got 6 to 8 foot bare root oaks from them in 4/2000 .... they are going on 35 feet tall or so ... red, scarlet, black and shingle ... he offered such.. due to our friendship thru the national hosta soc ....

    and they will probably know all about OH clay ...

    BTW.. i took me FOUR HOURS to drive there for them.. and 4 back ... of course.. i had a pick up at the time ... and i personally dont like getting that close to OSU ....

    as to maple.. only if you have no plan.. of ever gardening under them ... and no snrway.. if you want grass under them ....

    i believe.. spring planting is preferred for quercus ....

    ken

    ps: they have a world class hosta garden also ... if you visit in summer... scouting ... be sure to check it out ...

    pps: if you are not in OH.. never mind ... lol .. or longer road trip ....

    Here is a link that might be useful: pdf -- do note.. prices are NOT quoted for bare root ... you would have to see if they are willing to sell such to you ...

  • widdringtonia
    9 years ago

    If you're happy with seedlings, you've just opened up with world of online/catalogue ordering. With rare exceptions, most of the trees I've planted have been ordered online and arrived as 6" to 12" seedlings. The trees need a little extra protection from the lawnmower (it can be easy to not notice something that's only just sticking out of the ground and has just three tiny leaves on it, but other than that, I've had a lot of success planting my little baby trees.

    My absolute favourite online nursery is Lazy S's, but their selection of trees isn't as good as their selection of perennials. I've gone with another online source, Shooting Star Nursery, for some trees, including oaks, and although their shipping wasn't quite as impressive as Lazy S's, I still received my order without problems.

  • corkball
    9 years ago

    Some of this depends on soil type/pH, but... most of these suggestions are large, moderate to fast growers

    swampy area: Sycamore, Silver (kinda messy), Autumn Blaze, Red Maple, Willow (messy), Dawn Redwood, tuliptree, river birch, elm, possibly baldcypress? or cottonwood (messy)

    Drier area: oak maybe. I assume lots of sun?

    front yard: since it is best site, you have more choices. This is more of an aesthetic thing - depends on what you want in a tree. If you just want fast shade, most of the above are a good choice, along with various poplars. Of course your neighbors have to LOOK at it. You could go for less mess (dawn redwood, elm) or showy (tuliptree, magnolia, catalpa (messy!)). Just don't plant the most aggressive trees (willow, cottonwood) 50' from house - they will mess with your foundation.

    Also, generally no need to buy 8' trees. Many of the trees listed will grow 2-8' (FEET) per year depending on conditions and you can get them much cheaper ($3-10 ea+shipping) from mail order places that sell 1-3' whips.

  • drrich2
    9 years ago

    For a seasonally wet area, I might think about Nutall Oak, Swamp White Oak, and Black Gum. The Wildfire cultivar of Black Gum has red-highlighted spring foliage which is quite attractive.

    Richard.

  • ricksample
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks everyone, I think I'll definitely stick with a few Oaks and a few maples... I may even toss in a Black Gum as Richard mentioned above.

    Ken - Yeah I'm from Ohio, I don't have any plan to garden under the maples. I'm planting the maples in the front yard only for shade. I'm not lining my driveway with them, but they will go fairly close, given enough time they will overlap the driveway which is what we want. The maples in the back are going in a wet spot that we can't really do much else with so we definitely won't plant anything under the maples.

    Corkball - That's exactly why I don't want to buy a B&B 8' tree... A couple of the trees I do have grow at least 2'+ a year plus smaller trees are much easier to plant, I'll have to water less, and they usually have roots that are not tangled from my experience anyhow.

    For the Oaks... I think I may just try to pot a few of the seedlings in my yard and let them grow until next spring then plant them. They're free so it's worth a shot at least.

    For the maples... would it be worthwhile to get the 5 gallon 'Red Sunset' at Home Depot for $50... or the ones that are a little more rare through mail order for $70 which are 2 gallons. If I could find a good source for small 1-3' whips I wouldn't mind giving those a try too. But I would want them to be a named tree. A lot of the seedlings or whips I'm finding online just say "Acer Rubrum" with no specialized name.

    Keep in mind I'm not planting anything right now. But if I decide to do a couple maples at Home Depot I will purchase those while the stock is fresh before summers heat and keep them in the shade till planting in the fall. If I do mail order I'll see if I can get them shipped for fall or at latest next spring. If I do seedlings from my yard I'll pot them and plant next spring.

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    Just to add my $0.02 -

    For the wetter areas - Red Maple will do very well. I'd stick with named varieties vs. seedlings if you want dependable red fall color. Seedlings can be red, yellow, or orange, but if that's OK by you and it's a semi-natural area, then seedlings might be OK, too. However, red maples are a dime a dozen and if I just want tiny species seedlings that may only be a year old anyway, rather than pay for them, I'd just gather my own seeds off one of the 192,291 red maples in my neighborhood (I exaggerate, just a little) and plant them. They grow very well and quickly.

    The problem with that is we're about a month too late to get this year's seed crop (red maple seeds mature around May or possibly early June in z6).

    In the drier parts of the yard, Sugar Maple might be worth considering as well, if not TOO dry. Moist/well drained is the best for Sugar Maple - they can't tolerate standing water that well but also don't like excessively hot or dry locations.

    What part of OH are you in? In z6 Ohio you have a lot of options. Don't limit yourself to just maples and oaks, either.

  • arktrees
    9 years ago

    I will add for the Catalpa (either Northern or Southern species both are hardy for you). Fast growing, not prone to storm damage, grows nearly anywhere, and looks distinctly different with flowers to boot. Some are more offended by the Spinx Mother Larvae than others (me not much). Having grown up around lots of Catalpa Trees and done lot of fishing with the Spinx larvae, the number will vary from tree to tree, and often from year to year. Most trees seem to reach and equilibrium with a moderate number. Stressed trees get ALLOT more.

    In addition to the excellent choice of Nuttall Oak, I will add Quercus michauxii, the swamp chestnut oak/cow oak. Grow at a nice rate, and the ones I have seen have a nice fall color, though not exceptional. Not your most commonly planted Oak either.

    For the better draining sites consider Yellowwood. Excellent tree that forms an umbrella shape naturally, and stunning in heavy flower. Also at least locally, a very nice bright yellow in fall. Lots of these being planted in local parks.

    Lastly, check the link below for a source of allot of species (occasionally cultivars) of smaller plants. Also you won't get killed on shipping. She will also tell you if she is not happy with the condition of some species that she stocks. I have gotten many plants from her.

    Arktrees

    Here is a link that might be useful: Pin Ridge Gardens

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    Agree on the Q. michauxii. Will be fully hardy in z6 (as well as 5) even though the native range is more 6b - 9. Like most deciduous oaks of a more "Southern" range it's hardier than it's native range suggests. If I had to guess, it's a leftover trait that enabled the species to survive the last ice age. Anyway, the few I see around here have a nice subdued russet to red color in fall - not quite the burgundy of a white oak and not as firey or brilliant a red as Scarlet, but decent.

    Catalpas - I've always liked them, to be honest, even though they're derided. Spinx Mother Larvae isn't much an issue in MD - not sure about Ohio (I used to live there). The Northern Catalpa, at least in my experience, grows a bit more tall, and Southern a bit more broad, but that's not always cut and dry.

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    Here's an off-the-wall suggestion if you need evergreen conifers for the swampier area:

    Chamaecyparis thyoides. Atlantic whitecedar (but not a true cedar, it's actually a Cypress).

    I've always liked these and you almost never see them planted, esp. the straight species.

  • ricksample
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Everyone... I actually took a trip back to the big box store only to realize they had a 75% off all trees a shrubs a couple days prior. There wasn't anything left so I was kind of out of luck.

    Here's what I'm thinking, I will just need to find a place to buy all of these from at a reasonable price preferably 1 gallons.

    1. Driest location, Front Yard, clay based, good drainage because of a slight incline, soil may dry out during July/Aug if no rain - Quercus coccinea Scarlet Oak

    2. Front Yard, loam based, Great soil, excellent drainage, soil rarely drys out - I have two for this location: Quercus coccinea Scarlet Oak & Acer rubrum 'October Glory'.

    3. Back Yard, Clay Based, bad drainage during the winter to spring transition month if we get a lot of snow and rain. I have two for this location: Quercus bicolor Swamp Oak. This is going around 60' from the end of my septic, not sure if this will cause a problem later or not. The second is Acer rubrum 'October Glory' which will be aprox 100' from septic closer to the house to provide some shade over deck.

    4. For my field locations I'll just put a couple Acer Rubrums in the bad drainage areas and a couple different oaks in the areas with better drainage I think. I won't get into that until next year.

  • calliope
    9 years ago

    I don't know what part of Ohio you call home, but if you are anywhere withing comfortable driving distance of Dawes Arboretum, in Licking County, I strongly recommend you take a trip there for their spring sale the weekend after Mother's Day, if I remember right. You will find some absolutely off the wall selections you'll never get in the trade, and the prices will make you want to bring along a U-Haul. Their professional staff is also on hand to palaver with you on your selections. It's been my playground for years as a member and also it's a good resource for specialty classes like grafting.

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