red maple is fine to plant under....its the Norway maple that's a pain in the a**

i grow 1650 different hosta.. ALL MAPLE ARE HORRIBLE to garden under.. and the norway is the worst ..

talk to the hosta peeps about trees..

not the tree peeps.. they are a bit freakish in their denial of the realities of anything non-tree ,..lol

below is two pix of the neighbors septic rebuild due to that maple

a maple.. is a maple.. all are acer.. and they are all the same... to anyone who wants to garden under them ... the only issue is how many years.. before you are cursing it ...

ken

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Ken, did you just scare all the tree people away from my post?lol

Greendude, how old are the red maples that you're gardening under? Soil type would be helpful too. Thanks!

Are Japanese Bloodgood Maples a problem with roots and septic tanks?

Thanks.

Valid question but isn't that a thread bomb? I have no idea by the way as I've never had a septic tank.

I'm sorry, whaa! I'm not familiar with a "thread bomb" but if it means I encroached on your thread, I really am sorry.

I was just sort of responding to Ken's response about a septic re-due because of a maple. We do have a septic tank that would be close to a driveway that I am thinking of putting a Bloodgood Maple in.

Again, sorry for "bombing" your thread. Happy 4th!

Before all this Whaas, I'd be curious to know if the rubrum maple is even going to -or is-performing well in your soil. Are things acidic and sandy enough where you are for this species? Where I am, we don't bother with straight rubrum maple, but just one county to the west, they do fine.

Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with Ken that all maples, at least all maples which reach large size, will be tough customers to garden under in the future. It won't be apparent immediately, but in time, it sure will. And I'd add silver maple to the list of worst to garden under, along with Norway maple. Silvers get so large, grow so fast, and just colonize their sites so aggressively that even though the shade they cast is not as dense as that of the Norways, it still becomes well nigh impossible to grow anything underneath. I remember when I still had my giant silver, that even as carefree a plant as old-school hosta varieties would grow......but in the wrong direction..every year. that is, they'd actually get smaller!

BTW, I'm one of the "tree peeps" and a group of trees as ecologically important as are the maples still belong in our landscapes and woodlands. It's just that one needs to know what to expect when considering planting one or more.

+oM

Rubrum does fine here, in heavy soil and a high enough pH that pin oak is not happy. It is possible to grow other plants underneath it, though at this point it takes some aftercare. Here, I wouldn't worry at all about establishing a bed under a red maple sapling.

BTW, the tree is at least 40 ft tall at this point.

I love maples...but not to garden under. Large growing maples (red, sugar, etc) are better as a specimen tree, away from a house.

The front half of the root spread diameter would be grass only. The back half of the froot spread would be my existing garden that I'd be worried about. The reason to garden under it in the future is if a current plant dies or I decide to remove/replace. No perrenials in this area. Mainly smaller conifers and shrubs that will not be effected by its shade.

Tom, how long does it take a tree to show signs of chlorosis? From what I've found some cultivars (cuttings or seed) are more adaptale to neutral/slightly alkaline soils. For example I was told by a grower that he believes Burgundy Belle is one of the best for soil adaptability.

My sun valley looks fine after two years. An unknown Acer rubrum cultivar is vigorous but the leaves show a bit of that splochy yellow. Another bust from Sooner.

Neighbor has a large maple just south of me...casts shade on my yard/garden... Its been pruned enough that i still get a lot of sunlight, but its still annoying. The seeds are the worst part about them. I have 1000's of them sprouting all over my yard/garden/etc... every year i'm pulling them...plus they fill up my gutters several times a year. Plus they are ugly (at least this one is). My mom has a sugar maple that is very pretty, but its a street tree and has great shade. I would NOT garden near one..unless it was small and you intended to remove it in 10 years. Maples are weed trees here along the Mississippi River... When i'm out fishing walleyes in the spring, the sloughs around here just run thick with seeds...the islands are just covered in maples, along with oaks...

Whaas, my not-very-precise answer is that a too-high pH-induced chlorosis shows up quickly..within the first year or two of transplanting.

Mad...I mispoke earlier in stating that sandy ground is required for this species, Acer rubrum.... An acidic pH yes, but not the sand part. Good catch.

Frank....you ain't a kidding, both in your part of the state and mine, much further east. Typical hardwood stands are almost 100% sugar maple in the understory. My understanding is that the other co-inhabitants of such forests, things like yellow birch and American beech, are not as shade-tolerant as is the s. maple. So unless there is some kind of active management going on, or some natural disturbance providing a bit more open of a canopy, s. maple is what you end up with. So that accounts for the higher, better-drained areas. Let alone the silver and/or red maples you're apt to see along the river.

+oM

We're mostly blessed with the weed trees cottonwood and boxelder. Two of the least desirable trees in my opinion.

Well Sun Valley was planted last spring and I don't see any signs as of yet. The other unknown cultivar starting showing signs late last season, its first year in the ground.