Have they been planted too deeply? Kind of looks like it. That, or buried up to the knee caps in soil.

Couple of years for a 20ft tree to get established is highly optimistic. I would say minimum 5 years.

And even then there is no guarantee. I see a huge tree someone transplanted on my way home. It has been in the ground for over 4 years. Every year it keeps dying back and unfortunately it may have to come down.

I also have a 4' crape myrtle in my house and even being so small it dies back every year. I am happy it does not die back to the ground as some of them do.

You have to keep observing the tree every year for the next 5 yrs.

In the future buy young trees max of 2" caliper diameter and about 6-10 feet tall.

I'm with rhizo. Looks like all of them were too deeply planted from here.

You might be able to save them by lowering the grade 4-6" around trunks and out a few feet, but no guarantee.Hurry it up if you're going to do it and the bark below grade is sensitive, so protect from too much UV. Ouch. Good luck.

Dan

When they were planted the rootball was slightly above the ground and the mound you see is mostly dirt. They're planted 25ft apart.

We now know to buy a smaller tree. He had plenty of those but we thought bigger was better at the time. They're definately not giving us the look we were after so we're not sure how we'll proceed. Makes me sick thinking we spent over 2k and we may have to start over.....

Get rid of the mounds and replace with a nice (broad) layer of mulch (pine straw or similiar). Be sure that you do not pile the mulch up along the trunk.

The large size of the trees is certainly a contributing factor, though in your climate, they won't take 5 years to properly establish. Am I assuming correctly that you live in Walterboro, SC? I used to live there. Where did you get the trees?

Here is another angle and a close up of the base. I can't really get rid of the mounds as they're full of feeder roots. I tried to dig down into one of them the other day and it was hard because of all the roots so I stopped.

My name is Walt :) but I live outside of Columbia. They were purchased from a farm in Boykin, SC.

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Get rid of the mounds and replace with a nice (broad) layer of mulch (pine straw or similar). Be sure that you do not pile the mulch up along the trunk.

The large size of the trees is certainly a contributing factor, though in your climate, they won't take 5 years to properly establish. Am I assuming correctly that you live in Walterboro, SC? I used to live there. Where did you get the trees?

The top 4-6" of the rootball in a B&B, Walt, needs to be removed to find appropriate planting depth; the machine spade used to dig and wrap piles dirt on top of roots. Hopefully you also removed burlap and wire and discarded. Don't feel alone - the neighborhood we live in has hundreds of trees - most now dying - that were planted by a company the same way. I get to look at a half-dozen every day from the backyard.

Anyway, that last closeup shows me they are too deep. You've got lots of room to work with there and hopefully you can change grade around the trunks without pooling water around them.

Dan

If you already see lot of feeder roots on the mound I don't think trying to expose the root flare now will help much.

The other problem with planting too deeply is girdling roots and of course you can only determine this by digging into the mound.

I would wait till fall if you want to expose the root flare. The feeder roots will be critical to get it through this summer.

I have been in the same boat of planting too deeply. But the great thing about this forum is you learn.

So next time buy young trees and plant them at correct depth with the root flare clearly visible above ground level.

There is a fantastic video here on how to correctly plant a tree. You may want to see it once,twice or as many times. I did. There are 2 parts to this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLnMaf0Np-0

Thanks for all of the valuable information. I hate to hear it but now I know. The wife is going to be a little upset but we all learn from our mistakes....just for kicks here is another pic that was taken. This is only 3" or so down and then I stopped. I'm an IT guy so I take pics of everything since I seem to get better help that way..haha

You can see the basket in a couple area's plus some larger roots.

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So, is the general consensus taking them out? I've had a few back surgeries and I'm not sure I want to pay someone to try and correct this problem if there is a small percentage they will live.

Boy, that's a lot of money to throw away. If years ago I was hired to fix this, I'd change grade and prune those adventitious surface roots and hope the wire basket didn't girdle the larger roots. I'd also have a line in writing about no guarantees for fixing...

Do you have a son-grandson who can do the dirt work?

Dan

Well, the wife and I aren't ready to give up and are going to do everything we can because we really can't afford to replace them at this time and I can't stand the thought of tossing a living tree.

I'm only 35 but I was born with a bad back and my last surgery was a couple years ago and I'm feeling great so I'm babying it because I'm loving life again! I did get my shovel and it took me 35 minutes to dig away the dirt and roots from one tree.

I know I may have caused more harm than good but I want to understand where the dirt really needs to be and I'm hoping my pics will help. It was pretty hard digging through the roots. Most of them were fairly small but I did get a few larger roots that were a couple feet away from the trunk. I didn't realize they would root that far away so fast.

Anyway, check out this pic...I thought this looked pretty good after a couple inches. Oh yeah, there were also many worms..probably another piece of useless information..haha

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I decided to go further to see if I could find the really large roots going out the side and I did at this depth..probably 2 more inches.

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The trunk wasn't soft at this level wich I hope is good. I did hit it with the shovel a couple times on accident and it scraped pretty easy.

I also took a couple pics of the bark. It's very green and I'm wondering if that's because the sprinkler is hitting it because it does. The bark is also coming off in many area's which I thought was growth..another good sign?

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Again, I thank everyone for their help. Tell me like it is..I don't want to battle a lost cause.

One other possible piece of information I totally forgot about. I hired a certified professional to teach me how to prune these the correct way and this was done back in January. We did take out many large branches that were running inside and crossing. She advised for proper growth we need to remove these each year. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the lack of leaves and flowers.

Here is our plan that I hope we will complete one of these days!

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I hired a certified professional to teach me how to prune these the correct way and this was done back in January

And they didn't mention they were planted too deeply?!? Mon dieu!

Dan

Well, in her defense we had straw over the mounds and they were dormant...heck, I don't know anymore. You get tired after you've been taken advantage of so many times. I guess I need to stick to the internet and learn this way.

So did I okay with removing the dirt? Too much in the last pic? I'm going to try one a day and see how it goes but I don't want to go too deep.

Thanks again for all your help.

I just finished reading an article on root flare managment and I think I'm headed in the right direction (if the article was right!)

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=484

Also the youtube video mentioned in an earlier post was excellent!I just finished watching it and didn't have a clue. I hope to be able to pass along this information to others that don't have a clue.

I'm no expert - the other guys know much more than I. I just wanted to second Dan and rhizo's recommendations (which you already followed) to lower the grade and find the flare. You did good. They were right -- planted waaay too low.

You already found Dirt Doctor here in Dallas. He refers to Crape Myrtle pruning as crape murder. I would keep your future pruning to the crossing/inward branches at a maximum. Howard Garrett strongly advocates allowing a plant to be what it was meant to be. There's a lot of good information on his site. In the future, he might have a page recommending local arborists or local nurseries who can recommend local professionals.

Not sure about the green on the bark, but crapes don't need a lot of supplemental water, if any. Out here, TXDOT plants them in highway medians - think: zero maintenance - and they do just fine.

~ freshair

Not all crape myrtle pruning is 'murder'. Detail pruning, the kind that directs growth, opens up the tree to good sunlight and circulations, is great! I can make a so-so crape into a piece of sculpture in 30 minutes without doing any 'topping' whatsoever.

Ornamental trees and shrubs often benefit from intelligent and reasonable pruning. Walt, I find nothing objectionable about the pruning I observed on your trees.

Dan, here's a story I've told here before, but before you joined us: I was called as a consultant to try to find out why nearly all of the large trees planted on a new construction site were declining rapidly after several weeks. I knew without getting out of my vehicle that they were all planted too deeply. That was the sole reason for the problems. In the SC heat, the trees died within a matter of a couple of months.

At this inspection were the landscape architects, the landscape contractors, and the property owners. After I removed the mulch and dug down several inches, we came across all of the ropes AND straps AND wads of burlap still in tact. When I asked why, here's what the landscape architect said:

"Oh, I asked that they leave all of that there so the trees would be easier to remove if they died."

A SAD, but true story, lol!

Rhizo, I've heard that story before. Maybe it was the same story happening somewhere else to someone else....

Anyway, I hope the architect ended up paying for the replacements and learned a lesson he/she should have learned before even thinking about becoming a landscape architect. Don't landscape architects have to be licensed there? Do they not receive even the most basic training?

Another question....would fertilizing hurt? If not, what do you recommend?

Rhizo, we have in our neighborhood currently about 40% mortality on street trees (~n = 160), with about 55% of the rest in decline, and uncounted private trees planted by same company dead or in decline. All planted too deeply in B&B several years ago (beyond warranty . ). We've removed one in our yard already and will remove another soon, and a third has a replant right next to it awaiting its death. Here in Colo we let the market sort out incompetence...

Dan

Hey, rhizo ~

I did mention that inward/crossing pruning was okay. It's just that most don't realize where the line is, and its so easy to go too far. Furthermore, most crape myrtles used in commercial and individual landscapes *are* topped in winter, so its easy for a person driving by to draw the conclusion that topping is the appropriate treatment.

I have no doubt that a truly informed and experienced person can implement judicious and beneficial pruning techniques - but we've seen just in this thread that many "professionals" aren't as qualified as they should be.

I was merely advocating that he err on the side of caution.

~ freshair

Walt, I believe that I would hold back on the fertilizer but make sure that the area is nicely mulched. Fertilization at this time might stimulate a bunch of top growth that a poor root system cannot support.

freshair...your advice was fine, but I just wanted to 'tweak' Garrett's comments. ;-)

Brandon, I know that I've told that story several times here. Amazing, huh? And it does bring up some points about landscape architects. I've worked with sooooo many of them over the years, and only a tiny handful knew much of anything about plant growth and development.

I believe that the core of their training goes into design and architecture. Plants are just so many cubes, spheres, and cones rearranged in pleasing ways. I've looked at the curricula of some LA programs and they only required ONE plant identification class.

I can't tell you the number of designs I've seen that were done at a desk two hundred miles away from the actual site. Oftentimes, the plant selection will be inappropriate to the location or selected from an old text book unrelated to the real world of nurseries. Sigh.

But when you can get a talented LA who also knows their stuff about soils, roots, plant response, and all that stuff....BINGO!

You're getting a lot of good advice. I would add that if you can get one of those attachments that take the chlorine out of water, you will notice a great improvement in all your growies. Chlorine disrupts the growth of microbes in your soil. Microbes are what feed your plants.

It goes without saying that you should refrain from using herbicides. They can disrupt critical metabolic processes within your plants.

Also, don't be afraid to start applying mild organic fertilizers. I had great luck when we bought this house, because I used composted cotton burrs to mulch all our new shrubs.

Most plants love to have cool roots. One reason rich people's giant trees thrive is because they are underplanted (by landscape architects/elite garden desighers) with shrubs. The shrubs shade the soil, reducing stress for the trees.

And you are smart to plant a secondary screen. Crape Myrtles are understory trees from the jungles of India. They prefer to be sheltered from winds. Your screen of Chindo Viburnum should help a lot. The happiest Myrtles I've seen were in places where buildings and vegetation reduced their exposure to drying winds. The deep green Viburnum will make a wonderful backdrop, so that you will be able to enjoy the beautiful trunks of your Myrtles.

Plan9fromposhmadison,

I'm curious to know exactly what you meant about the herbicides. Herbicides, like glyphosate for instance, are commonly used to eliminate weed and grass competition around shrubs and trees. The chemical works by disrupting critical metabolic processes within the target plants, not the specimen being cared for. Herbicides, like glyphosate, can be very safe and very beneficial if used carefully and correctly.