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purpleinopp

Really BIG tree, a 'living witness' (pics)

This tree is in Geneva, AL, and it is quite a commanding presence. (No, I haven't been to the redwood forest. I know this tree isn't in league with those.) Certainly not the tallest, but the oldest/biggest tree I've ever noticed. The neighborhood around the downtown area has a LOT of HUGE trees also, taller ones but none I've seen to compare to the trunk girth of the pictured tree. If you're ever in the area and like big old trees, it's worth a little side-trip into Geneva.

Frustratingly, I couldn't find a single acorn, but admit I didn't forage the leafy areas near the ground because there was poison ivy in too many places for risking any contact.

The ground is cleared and mowed except where the branches touch the ground, where the previously fallen leaves are left alone. There was a pile of non-oak-tree plant material next to the tree when we visited, so apparently someone makes an effort to cut away other plants without disturbing those areas with a mower or weeder. Truly an example of why live oaks must be pruned periodically if one is growing near/in/over a house/yard/driveway/whatever where allowing the limbs to ground themselves would require the abandonment of the property.

There are 2 kinds of "living witness" trees that I could determine with the aid of the good ol' WWW. The first kind is when trees are/were used as property markers. The second kind is indicated by the plaque at the base of this incredible tree. If you can't see it clearly enough below, it says, in all caps, "The Alabama Forestry Commission recognizes this tree as a "Living Witness." This tree lived here at the time of the signing of the United States Constitution and continues to grow with our nation in strength and character." Maddeningly, it doesn't give the name of the tree, but it's one of the live oaks.

There are at least 4 trees in AL designated as living witness trees of the second kind. I've tried unsuccessfully to find information about the "living witness" tree designation/recognition program in regard to being an AL or national entity. The AL For. Comm. website doesn't say a word about it. I tried searching for "living witness trees" but most of the results I got were related to a book by a similar name about TX trees. A search for "constitution trees" did not yield what I was looking for - a list of these trees and their locations for any particular state or a national list or register.

Any comments, info, further questions welcome!

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For scale, my son is 7.

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ALL of the benches face AWAY from the tree. Um...........

Comments (42)

  • acer
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree- the plaque really should identify the species. We care about what we know. Perhaps a smaller one could be installed under or near the first. But, what a tree! Thanks for sharing.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very nice tree and thanks for taking the time to post all the pictures.

    If life ever has me move down south it will be to a residence with a large Live Oak

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's a Quercus virginiana.....Live Oak. That's the only tree it could be.

  • greenhavenrdgarden
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow. Thanks for posting! Great pics.

  • wisconsitom
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah, that's cool.

    Anyone ever see the banyan tree-I don't recall the exact species-in Thomas Edison's old place in Fort Myers, FL? That one'll have you gawking too.

    +oM

  • poaky1
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love this species of oak and tried to grow it here in zone 6 Pa. It won't survive our winters of course. The nearly identical Quercus Fusiformis looks like it except for the smaller size, though when really old it gets rather large and spreading too. So I planted lots of them and hope to live long enough to see them get a decent size. The Q Fusiformis is zone 6 hardy.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the inputs!

    I would like to see that banyan tree!

    Does anyone have any info about a list of AL Living Witness trees? Or a national list?

  • eahamel
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Texas has a list like that, too. One of the largest in the state, that used to have the title of largest (and a plaque on it, too), is at a hamburger place. They have tables under it, on a platform, and take good care of it.

    I used to own property outside Houston that had one nearly that large on it. Looking at your pics brings back memories. Sigh.

  • sam_md
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    purple, here's a link for you to check out:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Big Live Oaks

  • mori1
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow these trees are beautiful.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the comments, and the link, Sam. Those are some impressive trees!

    I'm starting to think nobody has given any thought to this "living witness" thing since 1987. I can find zero info about it.

  • sam_md
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    American Forests is a nationwide non-profit which maintains a database for large trees. I don't know much about them but here is their current national champion for live oak:

    Here is a link that might be useful: American Forests

  • aquilachrysaetos
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beautiful!

    The tree in the first pic is utterly gorgeous. I love they way the branches touch the ground.

    This year I visited Sequoia National park (amazingly massive) and Jedidiah Smith redwoods(amazingly tall): I would still pull over and get out to have a look at that oak.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Glad you liked the pics, dis. It's all ONE tree!

    Interesting link, Sam, thanks!

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    There doesn't seem to be any official list of these trees, and the plaques given to them in 1987 don't all say the same thing. Some are referred to as Constitution trees, some as Living Witness trees. I did find the list below on a tree forum. Sorry it's 'messy.'

    The tree I started this discussion with isn't on this list (so I added it, #62.) I visited it yesterday to see how it fared the ice storm in January. Looks great! I wish I could live "inside" it. Pic below taken yesterday.

    I can only assume this list is accurate, IDK. Does anyone "know" any of these trees personally?

    1 White Oak Quercus alba Knoxville TN
    2 White Oak Quercus alba Snellville GA
    3 White Oak Quercus alba Powell TN
    4 Swamp & White Oak hybrid Queckus-Jackiana Wayne PA
    5 Oak Cliff Country Club Bur Oak Quercus macrocarpa Dallas TX
    6 Oak Cliff Country Club Pecan Carya illinoensis Dallas TX
    7 White Oak Quercus alba Brinklow MD
    8 North Ridge Country Club Live Oak Quercus agrifolia Fair Oaks CA
    9 Gordonsville VA White Oak
    10 California Sycamore Platanus californicum Goleta CA Sizzler Restaurant
    11 Charles Towne Landing State Park Live Oak Quercus virginiana Charleston SC
    12 American Sycamore Platanus occidentalis Route 47 Sunderland MA
    13 American Basswood Tilia americana 833 West Main St.. Lexington KY Lexington Cemetary
    14 White Oak Quercus alba Tooles Bend Road Knoxville TN
    15 Post Oak Quercus stellata Heritage Park Grapevine TX
    16 Pecan Carya illinoensis Heritage Park Grapevine TX
    17 Chinkapin Oak Castanopsis chrysophylla ? Dallas TX
    18 Pecan Carya illinoensis Dallas TX
    19 Live Oak Haig Point Plantation Daufuskie Island SC
    20 Live Oak Haig Point Plantation Daufuskie Island SC
    21 Quercus alba 4344 Columbia Road Elliot City MD
    22 White Oak Katonah Memorial Park Katonah NY
    23 White Oak Quercus alba var. Latiloba Leal Park 303 W. University Av. Urbana IL
    24 Live Oak Quercus virginiana 3100 White Settlement Road Greenwood Memorial Park Fort Worth TX
    25 White Oak Quercus alba Corner of Morris & Willow St. Lansing MI
    26 Live Oak Quercus virginiana Carswell Av. Baptist Village Homes Waycross GA
    27 Live Oak Quercus virginiana Exchange Plantation County Road 52 Plantersville SC
    28 Water Oak Moyoc NC
    29 White Oak Butler PA
    30 Ponderosa Pine Pinus ponderosa Big Pine Campground Siskiyou National Forest 13 miles up Taylor Creek Road off Merlin-Galice Road
    31 Valley Oak Quercus lobata PG7E Geysers Project 26 miles NE of Healdsburg
    32 Coast Live Oak Quercus agrifolia St. Helena Hospital Sanitarium Road Deer Park CA
    33 Valley Oak Quercus lobata 2000 Main St. St. Helena CA
    34 Sugar Maple Rt. 82 Norwitch CT
    35 Valley Oak Quercus lobata W. Hwy 99 Southern Pacific Railroad...

  • poaky1
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Love that L.O. Although Redwoods are larger in wood mass, for me, the fact that much of the mass is hard to see in the forest, without looking upwards for eons of feet, Live oaks are more dramatic being spread out horizontally and graceful. Yes I am romanticizing a tree. If I grew up down south, and they were everywhere, I likely wouldn't think them a big deal. I am looking forward to seeing how much of my Live oak "late drop" hybrids get new leaves. I know the 2 yr old ones will come back, but with some top die-back after this B*Tch of a winter.

  • jcalhoun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    P'opp,

    There is a live oak on Dauphin Island,AL that is not quite as big but has several braches propped up like that one. There is a nice park there.

  • bengz6westmd
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The 'Wye' national champion eastern white oak in MD @ 600 yrs old was similar in size & spread w/branches on the ground. Felled by summer thunderstorms around 2000.

  • rusty_blackhaw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Live oaks are gorgeous in the right setting.

    Not sure why people insist on planting them in small yards, unless they own stock in tree pruning companies.

  • poaky1
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a framed photo of the Why oak with a woman standing by it, by her clothing it may be at the latest in the 50's or 60's. I have seen a Chestnut oak with large branches that reach out like the Q. Alba and the (sort of) Q. Virginiana. It was listed under the Virginia champion Chestnut oak. It was super massive because it has 2 leaders, which I would correct on mine, if they had it. I am hoping for many years of great growth on my Live oak "late drop" trees and for my other oaks, the Q. Alba and the Quercus Prinus/ Montana, or Chestnut oak. The Chestnut oak is a fast grower, maybe when I'm an old hag, it will be pretty large. I have 2 Q. Prinus/Montana and 2 Q.Alba in my yard several Q. Virginiana "late drop" also.

  • joeinmo 6b-7a
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great Live Oak, my live oaks will never be that grand as they are Quercus Fusiformis and just barely borderline fr the most northern range, but they will get big.

  • poaky1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In Rio Frio Texas, is the US Champion Q. Fusiformis. Maybe the acorns I sent you will be the same as my :late drop" live oaks, and will grow faster for you. My largest one got 2- 3 ft last growing season.

  • elvis
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Purple, from the link to the Geneva Public Library:

    snip- "The day would end with everyone climbing the "Big Ole' Oak". One year, no one who had
    been at the Junction, except one, showed up for classes on Monday. Even the seventh
    grade teacher, Virginia Lee, was home with a case of poison ivy from climbing the tree.
    A few years ago, hundreds gathered under the tree in support of the
    Choctawhatchee-Pea Rivers Association in an effort to get navigational improvements for
    the rivers. Senator John Sparkman was the guest speaker.
    Today, we have returned to Old Town Festival on the Rivers, sponsored by the Club
    and the Geneva Chamber of Commerce. The annual Festival starts when the River Rats
    meet Billy Bowlegs with his flotilla from Fort Walton, Florida, on Friday.
    On April 28, 1984, The Big Ole Oak, in a dedication ceremony with C.W. Moody,
    head of the Alabama State Forrestry Commission, Montgomery, Alabama, was placed on
    the Historical Register, State of Alabama, by the Alabama Historical Commission, as a
    Historical Tree for its beauty, size and age.
    The tree is also registered with the International Association of Live oak Trees. The
    tree species is Quercus Virginiana Mill, 19 feet, 9 1/2 inches in circumference with a limb
    spread of 168 feet, is estimated to be over 200 years old..."

    Here is a link that might be useful: Big Ole Oak

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hey, thanks for that link! I'm skeptical about this part:

    "If anyone in Geneva said the "big ole oak", everybody knew he was talking about the big oak at the junction of the Choctawhatchee and Pea Rivers, located at what is now known as Robert Fowler Park. The trunk of the picturesque tree has a grandeur limb spread of 168 feet. Measured on November 13,1981, this tree is thought to be the largest live oak tree in the world"

    And this does not tell the standard to which this could apply - height, spread, volume of wood...

    Monumentaltrees.com has an interesting article on the subject, lots of great pics.

    This article discusses a claim to the largest live oak in TX.

    And I did find this list, the National Register of Big Trees, though this is not connected to "constitution" or "living witness" tree designation.

  • subtropix
    8 years ago

    Had a live oak, it got crushed in the debris from superstorm Sandy. Maybe need to plant another.

  • poaky1
    8 years ago

    My "late drop" live oaks croaked and never came back up in their 3rd winter here, no big surprise to most southerners on here I'm sure. My Fusi died back to the ground also. I am trying a Quartz mountain L.O. now, but back to the main post here, I THINK the largest L.O. is the "Angel oak" in South Carolina, it is on an Island, I THINK Saint John's Island SC. Or plain John's island. poaky1

  • parker25mv
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    That is a big tree, but not extremely remarkable. Oak trees this size are common in truly old growth European forests, though unfortunately there are not many of these pristine old growth oak forests left due to past deforestation.

    Many people would be surprised how large certain common trees can get if allowed to grow unperturbed for 150 years. There are some HUGE beech trees growing in the Zoniënwoud forest preserve in Belgium. Many of them are 50 meters tall, one would not think there was anything like this left in Western Europe.

    Old European oaks can have a very dominating presence.

  • aquilachrysaetos
    8 years ago

    Unfortunately, in a lot of places such beautiful old trees are no longer extant. That makes the remaining ones remarkable.

  • parker25mv
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Agreed.

    I have seen several 100 year old forests (in different parts of the world) and they are still recovering from past deforestation. The size and spacing of the trees is completely different and clearly shows it is second-growth forest.

  • poaky1
    8 years ago

    I meant the largest Quercus Virginiana, Parker and aqua. I do think that quercus Virginiana is the largest type of oak tree in the world. I have seen the Q.Robur trees in Europe in pics and they get large enough for their to have been small pubs in them and those kinda things, but, I (admittedly without a proper thorough websearch) THINK that Live oak Q. Virginiana is the oak that gets the largest of all oaks. I have a pic of the Angel oak and the people under it look like tiny little specks under it. If you can find a larger Live oak, please speak up, and if the Q.Virginiana isn't the oak that is capable of the largest size in the world tell me. It's just that the Q.V. Live oak lives the longest of the oaks (if no disease or injury) that is why they CAN be the largest of the worlds oaks. I can certainly be wrong, but, I THINK they can live equal to or longer than the Q.Robur. If anyone knows of a larger oak, Live or other, in the US or world mention it here. I admit I need to do more websearches before I could say more than "I think" about the things I've stated. Poaky1

  • poaky1
    8 years ago

    Okay guys, a short search says that the "Seven sisters oak" in Mandeville Al is the largest Live oak Q. Virginiana in the world, at 38 ft trunk circumferance, and Est. of 1,500 years old, the "Angel oak" is "only" 28 ft girth trunk. Poaky1

  • sowen18
    8 years ago

    Copied from: http://villagepointpark.com/p-jackson.asp

    The Historic Village Point Preserve is home to one of the largest and most historic live oaks in Alabama. This giant tree, which is 95 feet tall, with a circumference of 28 feet, was a landmark in the eighteenth century: it is shown as a survey line marker in the original Spanish Land Grant survey map of 1787. How did Jackson’s Oak get its name? According to local traditions, General Andrew Jackson made a speech to his army from one of its massive limbs, while he was enroute from Pensacola during the War of 1812.

    Protection and preservation of this magnificent live oak is a top priority of the City of Daphne and the Village Point Foundation. An observation platform was carefully constructed around the tree, to offer an excellent view, and to provide protection from pedestrian traffic, which research has shown would eventually compact and erode the soil, causing root damage to the tree.

  • parker25mv
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Quercus virginiana is often considered the largest tree species in America east of the Rocky mountains, but the European Oak species tends to a little bigger. That being said, there are just not many very old (150+ year) Oak trees in Europe, so it would not be paradoxical to say that most of the oaks in Europe are not as big as the big live oaks in America.

    This European oak in the Zoniënwoud forest is over 40 meters tall:

    http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/photos/2995/

    http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/photos/2996/

    Here is a 700 year old European Oak:

    http://bomeninfo.nl/mijn-figuren/EikIvenackOverzicht100.jpg

    (note the two people walking in the bottom left hand corner for scale)

    I do not think the English Oak has as wide of a limb span as Quercus virginiana. though, so in that sense Quercus virginiana may be the bigger species.

  • poaky1
    8 years ago

    I also have noticed that many large Q. Robur are alive, but held together with hardware. Many called "dodders" and the live oaks are still good looking at the same age or older. Not to "poo poo" the English oak, I have 2 myself, but I THINK the life span is longer for Q. Virginiana. The English (Robur) oak is a beautiful tree, which will get humongous in time, but unless I find other European oaks out there, I say Q.V. Live oak is the largest oak in old age that I know of. I am counting limb spread, I have seen some humongous boles of Q. Robur, but they may be still slightly less girthy than a Q. V. I wish I could have known when I went to the UK in 2001, that I would grow to like oaks so much, I never saw one large oak, we were looking at castles, I did see a large Q. Ilex at Cardiff castle, I got a pic of me sitting on it's large root hump. me and Q. Ilex

  • poaky1
    8 years ago

    One of my Q. Robur is going to have acorns this fall. I can't believe it, it is only about 5 years max. It is a really "exuberant" Q. Robur, to say the least. I grew it from an acorn I got from the UK on Ebay. This is likely not the correct place to post this, but, we have been talking about Q. Robur some, and the other acorns I got produced a likely more "Usual" Q. Robur. It is puttering along, but, the one mentioned has been very vigorous in growth from the beginning, has great form etc. I am just amazed to see tiny little acorns, they are mostly cap now, but, it appears that this tree will be putting out acorns this fall. I will take pics if anyone shows interest in this post. Poaky1

  • BirkdaleSteve
    8 years ago

    Is it possible that this tree was the same amazing oak tree in the movie Forrest Gump?

  • sowen18
    8 years ago

    I believe that tree is in S. Carolina.....according to a Forrest Gump fan page that I just googled.

    So you may wonder

    where is the real ‘Forrest and Jenny’ tree located?

    Here goes…

    The majestic live oak featured in the movie is located at the entrance to the Carolina Shores subdivision, near the end of Carolina Avenue. To get there, you first have to take Bruce K. Smalls Drive, which intersects with US 21 just shy of the Beaufort Marine Corps Air Station. Info from Sciway

  • tjayars1
    8 years ago

    For me the list cut off at 35 when you said something about 62. I have seen the tree at Goose Island and its amazing. I've also seen the state champion Pecan. Its on private property but the owners are very nice. There is a Red Oak in the Garland area at a cemetary although not the sate champion its very impressive. I believe the sate champion is also on private propery in the Ft Worth area.

  • parker25mv
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    That oak on Goose Island is nothing special.

  • poaky1
    8 years ago

    I wish I could pose with the Jenny and Forrest Gump tree, but, I was on the wrong side of the Atlantic. That pic was in the UK, Wales actually. I can only hope to see it (Gump tree) in person some day. The closest I've ever come was going through SC on the way to Florida 3 seperate times. The nicest live oaks I saw were in Webster Florida, it was a rural area, lots of horses and cows under the trees, I loved that area. Lots of yards with many L.O. trees shading the yards. Many homes were old single wide trailers, but, the mature L.O.'s made it so beautiful, the trailers looked nice and inviting. Well, Webster is likely known for it's big Flea Market, there was a nice place with garden statues and outdoor furniture etc near the Flea market. The bad thing about Webster is that is one of the many sinkhole infested areas. Sorry for the meandering post, but, Webster is a nice place to see many old L.O.'s on the Gulf side of Florida, they seem to have been pretty much growing wild, the branches reach the ground, no pruning done to most. poaky1

  • poaky1
    8 years ago

    I hear that Savannah Georgia has many old Live oaks, I would love to see those also, of course. I want to add that, I did see lots of L.O. with spanish moss on them and it really takes a toll on the trees as far as their canopy, and I had seen some that lost lots of foliage, and they really weren't able to cast much shade. Some moss is beautiful, but, too much is too much. Paoky1