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andrelaplume2

Problemed October Glory w/Pics as requested...HELP!

andrelaplume2
16 years ago

Ok, I know the first shots is not that great but I wanted folks to have some idea of how big and barren this 3 year old October Glory is. It was very full last summer. My father-in-law was looking forward to its shade as it is finally at a good height. To recap, it was planted 3 years ago and was filled with leaves the first two years. We are in North East Pa. It is not blooming this year but I scratched a place or two and it was green underneath. It was installed a short distance from a 30 + year old tree that had to be removed. It is being watered and fertilized this summer--any ideas whats happening here. THANK YOU!!!!!

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Comments (17)

  • treeguy123
    16 years ago

    The second picture is some harmless lichen There is no need to even touch this, it only lives off the air and water and only uses the tree as a place to hang on. I see no other problems except it could possibly be stressed by the rocks that are around the base of the tree. The rocks can heat up to high temperatures and can cause some heat stress around the lower areas of the tree also the concrete bench plus any traffic over the rocks can cause some damage to the roots. I would recommend removing the rocks and adding a 2 to 4 inch layer of organic mulch in circle around the tree but keep it off the trunk and make the circle a little wider than the current rock area also. Organic much adds nutrients to the soil and keeps the roots cool in the summer and keeps them insulated and from freezing in the winter and also helps with drainage, soil structure, and helps prevent soil compaction.

  • jean001
    16 years ago

    Final photo looks very similar to weed killer damage.

    Any used any where in the vicinity, either spray or granule?

  • andrelaplume2
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    1) He just put the stone in a month ago I think but will check.

    2) I will check on weed stuff.

    3) Is there any hope? Do trees sometimes go a season w/out blooming and come back? Might it bloom?

  • quirkyquercus
    16 years ago

    Looks to be planted on the deep side, rocks are not good mulch and there appears to be seating covering up the root zone. Benches and chairs and what not. Those are my observations and things I would change off the bat.

  • botann
    16 years ago

    I'll go with Jean001 and say weed killer damage. The rocks and bench aren't enough to do that much damage, if any. Did somebody fertilize with Weed N Feed, or just used plain old broadleaf weed killer without the fert?

  • andrelaplume2
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Scotts step 2 was applied to the grass but not directly to the tree. When he saw it was not blooming he fertilized it with some sort of stake thing you poke in the ground near the tree. He said it was a ferlizer only and you put them in every 3 feet or so. The stone was added just recently.

    Any chance this thing will bloom. It looks like it wants to in the last pic. Also, those knotty looking areas in the trunk, whats that?

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    16 years ago

    I learned not to use those fertilizer stakes. They put too much fertilizer in one area and will burn the roots.

  • andrelaplume2
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    This was not a practice, he did it only recently after the tree did not bloom.

  • jean001
    16 years ago

    Back to my suggestion of weedkiller -- I suspect Roundup or another product with glyphosate was applied sometime last fall or late summer.

    Beyond that, when was the Scotts step 2 applied? If at the wrong time, it could have volatilized and damaged the tree.

    See the cautions for that product here
    http://www.scotts.com/index.cfm/event/ProductGuide.product/documentId/6955943e88e388a1d179930f89451dd8

    Here is a link that might be useful: Step 2 and how to use/not use

  • treeguy123
    16 years ago

    It could be from the effects of weedkiller before he put down the rocks. The rocks and bench both would not help it recover and could even cause further damage especially in the future. The two holes or damaged areas on the trunk look like it was hit by something either at the nursery where it was bought from or by someone in the yard a few years ago but that would likely not be the reason of the stress. One other factor that could be causing stress is if it is in hard clay soil, if the hole was not dug Wide enough and was not tilled or broken up good before planting that could block the roots from spreading out into the soil and they could jumble up and grow very slow in the small hole. When you plant the hole or tilled area should be 3 to 5 times as wide as the root ball so the roots can easily establish and spread out. Trees also should not be planted below the soil level. The top of the first roots should be right at the soil level or a tad above especially in clay soil.

  • quirkyquercus
    16 years ago

    Bingo. It was the tree stakes.

  • andrelaplume2
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    The tree stakes were just used recently. Before the stone there was a mulch pile there. Nothing was sprayed in the area...no roundup or anything. Step 2 was put down in June on the grass. I have no idea if it was properly planted but it did great for 2 years.

    Perhaps it was planted too close to tree that died and its roots can not spread?

    Other than removing the stone and putting the mulch back, does anyone have any suggestions on things he might try? Please be specific if mentioning products!!!!

  • jean001
    16 years ago

    quirky,

    Why "Bingo. It was the tree stakes."

    She said "he did it only recently after the tree did not bloom."

    So whatever the problem is -- I still vote for weed killer -- was before the tree stakes were used.

  • treeguy123
    16 years ago

    The only things I see that could be done and I recommend that could help it recover is to remove the rocks and make a good Flat and Level Organic mulch area (such as decomposed leaf litter or wood chips) 2 to 4 inches deep layer around the tree that extends almost to the branch tips or wider, the wider the better (be sure it is kept off the trunk) and maybe give it One good watering but don't flood it which can drown the roots and cause extra stress.

    By chance there is some kind of pest hidden around the roots or in the tree that we have not seen you could buy Tree & Shrub Insect Control by Bayer. You can get this at places such as Wal-Mart and it will protect the tree from insects for 12 months.

  • andrelaplume2
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    no insects. Will tell him to remove the stone and re mulch. Like I said, he puts step down in June. I think the prolem was already present thought because I think it blooms before June. He has been watering it...maybe too much.

  • jean001
    16 years ago

    andrelaplume2,

    You asked but no one yet responded:
    "those knotty looking areas in the trunk, whats that?"

    Are you referring to those oval openings in #3 or to those small clusters of green and pinkish stuff in #4?

    If to #3, as has been said, they're old wounds which the tree is covering over.

    If to #4, likely weed killer, probably Roundup or other glyphosate product. Wherein the tree is still alive (as you said: "I scratched a place or two and it was green underneath") but the new growth is severely stunted.

    Here's further info for the latter:

    1. two pictures of damaged stone fruit tree

    http://ucfruitreport.uckac.edu/SF-NutrientDef_files/Zinc/Zn-Roundup.htm

    2. Residual damage from Roundup
    http://www.ppdl.purdue.edu/PPDL/weeklypics/5-15-06.html

    Bottom line as I see it:
    If the problem is weed killer, the tree's survival will depend upon several factors , the time of year (stage of growth) and just how large a dose the tree received.

    For example, a man in my area accidentally sprayed roundup instead of a dormant spray on his dormant leafless pear tree; it took four years for normal growth to return.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Residual roundup damage

  • quirkyquercus
    16 years ago

    Ah man!!!
    That's what happened to my Ginkgo.

    I thought it was because of the late freeze this easter. It's got stunted leaves. I do see others with similar symptoms in the area though.