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| Earlier we had a topic where I was praising white oak. Here is a picture of a forest grown one at the Virginia Arboretum. They grow straight and tall in a forest with very good form. This is one of the better ones in the woodland there, but maybe not the best. The trees around it, except for the skinny one to the right, which is another white oak, are Black oaks. It is about 30 inches DBH and 120 feet tall--I measured it with a lazer rangefinder and a clinometer. But it is not a very old tree, maybe a bit over 100 years, but maybe only 85 or so. It is growing in a very deep and rich soil, possibly a class I forest site (Duffield silt loam)--certainly at least a class II site (Poplimento silt loam). I am not sure exactly where the boundary between the soils lies.
Also, as for growth rate--the tree to the right, which is the same age, is a black oak, and the white oak grew faster, dominated, and forced the black oak to give way. I will add some more pics in "replies" in a minute. --spruce |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| This tree is a notable white oak on the grounds of Carter Hall, near Boyce, VA. I have been impressed by the variability/genetic diversity of white oak in all kinds of charactertstics, such as bark, leaf shape, autumn color, and, as illustrated here, growth form. This tree has a spread of 155 feet, and a height of 75 feet, and its CBH is something like 17 feet (I can't remember exactly). In general outline, it looks like a southern live oak. --Spruce |
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| Here is a more typical open-grown white oak. It just happens to be right across the road from the spreading one at Carter Hall. It is in front of the old Episcopal Church there. --spruce |
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| Here is a young one at my place in Northern VA. This photo was taken 8 years after the tree was planted as a 4 foot sapling. It is growing in good soil, but not the best. After the first year it has put out two growth flushes each year. I have two shummard oaks, which have grown faster, but this one is growing fast enough so that the difference is not that crucial. This tree had, and still has after three more years, a perfect central leader--I have done no pruning. It's form is "exquisite." Yeah, a fancy word, but I want emphasis! --spruce |
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- Posted by gardener365 IL 5/6 (My Page) on Sun, Aug 12, 12 at 16:26
| Excellent set of photos. Some of my larger oak photos: Quercus robur var. Fastigiata (Author: Guy Sternberg in Pic; Petersburg, IL) Quercus macrocarpa ("Lyman Lyons" Petersburg, IL) 275 years old: Quercus macrocarpa ("Josephine Lyons") also 275 years old; Petersburg, IL: Quercus macrocarpa ("Josephine Lyons") Quercus macrocarpa ("Josephine Lyons") And a Quercus velutina I found on Memorial Day of last. Here's the info I recorded: Quercus velutina (Rock Island, IL) Quercus velutina (Rock Island, IL) |
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- Posted by lisanti07028 z6NJ (My Page) on Sun, Aug 12, 12 at 16:45
| Gorgeous pictures, all of them. |
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Sun, Aug 12, 12 at 23:53
| Yeah, its been decided. I'm plating one now. Perhaps two, one in a natural forest setting, the other an open grown spreading monster tree! |
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| Spruce, the branches on the Boyce white oak are astonishing... When I was in SW VA, the surrounding forest had been clear-cut in the early 1930s. Most of the oaks/hickories/black gums were matured stump-sprouts. In the moist stream below the house, the trees had grown the tallest -- around 100-115' tall. White, chestnut, northern red, black & scarlet oaks, tuliptrees, black gums & an occasional white pine. So 70 yrs is enough for a white oak in best conditions to reach 115' & nearly 3' in dia. There are shorter but just as big white oaks near me now in MD that are the same age. |
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| Here's a white oak trunk just across the road here -- about 75 yrs old. "Only" 80' tall, but spreading & almost 3' dia abh. |
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| Chestnut oaks trunks on a dry slope in SW VA. Some nearby chestnut oaks had trunk bark that was far more deeply furrowed than these. |
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| Beng: As for the growth of white oak--115 feet and 30 inches DBH in 70 years would be unusual. But then the site you mention down by a steam may also be unusual. On more normal class II forest soils, 115 feet in maybe 85 years, or a few more. White oaks have an undeserved reputation for being slow. And there are few sources that will tell you the truth. Here is what I know. First, as for general recognition of the growth rate of white oak. The USDA soil survey book for Frederick County MD is one of the few sources for information that I think is correct. For a good number of the soils in the old "class II" category, the 50 year growth in the forest for BOTH red oak and white oak is rated as the same, 80 feet. In the woodland section of the Arboretum here, there is a patch of Duffield Silt Loam (you can Google this and read all about the soil), that is a class I forest soil. These are very rare on uplands--I know of only one other class one forest soil, also of very limited extent, on an upland in the Shenandoah Valley. If Red oak on such a soil has a growth in 50 years of 90 feet, I would guess that white oak should be 85 feet or better. Growth rates decline sharply after 50 years, so for a white oak to make 115 in 85 years, it would have to average one foot per year between age 50 and 85. Yes, maybe possible. It is interesting, that in the Arboretum woodland here, some of the white oaks have outgrown the black oaks. Black oaks have a reputation for being fast, while the white oaks are "slow." Hummm. Anoher case in point--Belt woods in MD east of Washington, DC.--this is where you can see the finest white oaks that I know of. They have been carefully measured for heights up to 147 feet (I think I remember this correctly--I may be one or two feet off). The tallest tuliptrees there are about 160. So, after about 200 years the tuliptrees beat the white oaks by only 13 feet! Someone could argue that the white oaks had a head start--well, probably they had a small one as "advance reproduction" in the understory of the original forest before it was cut, but the best white oaks in that timberstand show no evidence of having started, or grown for any time at all, in the open. For anyone interested in planting white oaks, Pikes Peak Nursery (they are on-line) sells bareroot seedlings in bundles of 5. Get the larger size and baby then for two or three years. Of course, if you can find larger ones somewhere, get those. --spruce |
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- Posted by jimbobfeeny 5a IN (My Page) on Mon, Aug 13, 12 at 18:52
| Woody Warehouse in Liston, IN, grows most North American oaks using the rootmaker system. They've got some pretty good looking white oaks! White oak is one of the more common trees around here - I actually prefer the forest-grown ones. |
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| Really nice trees, all mine are really young and small, I love seeing the big trees! The older ones close to me are not open grown. Post more if you got e'm. |
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| Here is another picture of the Carter Hall oak, which gives a better idea of the spreading branches. Also, it is hard to capture in a picture, but the tree has a central trunk that goes all the way to the top. It doesn't look like a tree that was severely damaged, causing the unusual spreading habit, but perhaps there was some damage early in its life, which now shows no scars or other evidence. Also, it is growing on a semi-exposed limestone outcrop, which may, or may not, have anything to do with its growth form. --spruce |
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| Is there a Q. Alba x Q. Virginiana hybrid that's been noted or given a name? The top pic looks like it ( the hybrid ) would look like. I'm gonna post a new thread with that question. |
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| Your Q. Alba " Baby" is very impressive mine that's close to the same age is alot shorter. I may use some cottonseed meal and compost tea next spring to (hopefully) give mine a boost. Nice pics, I love the live oak looking Q. Alba! |
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