"dog day" cicada (genus Tibicen). here's a great link on cicadas in MI.

Here is a link that might be useful: michigan cicadas

> arbordave S-E MI Fri, Aug 15, 14 at 12:25
> "dog day" cicada (genus Tibicen).

Thanks. A good soaking with permethrin didn't see to bother him at all.

WHAT? Why would you do that?

They don't hurt anything, let them be.

I agree, it's probably more harmful to your tree to be spraying it with chemicals than anything that cicada would possibly do to it.

S

This post was edited by StGuaposFire on Fri, Aug 15, 14 at 16:41

I'm not sure which is worse, people who are terrified to use any chemical or those that want to douse everything in site. I wish people would approach the use of chemicals (especially pesticides) with more seriousness and thought.

I wish people would approach the use of chemicals (especially pesticides) with more seriousness and thought.

I wish people would give people the benefit of the doubt instead of always assuming the worst about others.

Instead of hand wringing and making accusations of foolhardiness, engage in a respectful dialog with a goal of understanding.

There is no need to kill cicadas. They are noisy and annoying but not worth spraying deadly chemicals to kill them. Just something we have to live with, like love bugs, who will be back soon.

There is no need to kill cicadas.

In many cases that is true, in others it is not true. It is not a universal truth claim that applies always and everywhere.

"A good soaking with permethrin didn't see to bother (the cicada) at all."

"I wish people would give people the benefit of the doubt instead of always assuming the worst about others."

OK, should we think that maybe the first statement was just a joke, or that the application was accidental, or what??? I'm perfectly willing to accept that maybe there is a good explanation, but we haven't seen one so far. It's not that you owe us an explanation, but, without one, the story certainly waves a huge red flag for most of us.

"...in others it is not true."

Definitely! If you ever see one the size of a football with blood dripping from it's mouth, it's time to nuke the sucker!

OK, should we think that maybe the first statement was just a joke, or that the application was accidental, or what???

Choice number 3: "what".

I'm perfectly willing to accept that maybe there is a good explanation

Supercilious.

the story certainly waves a huge red flag for most of us

Melodramatic. What "huge red flag" are you talking about?

This post was edited by tenacre on Fri, Aug 15, 14 at 23:42

...an indication that it sounds very likely that someone is using pesticides irresponsibly.

Why do you spend so much time dancing around the issue? Either tell us why, or don't. But I'm getting bored already.

You do not have enough facts to jump to such an unwarranted conclusion.

I'll stop dancing when you stop being petulant and start being civil.

If boredom leads to your departure, good riddance. Go pester someone else.

Nah, I'll stick around for a while and watch you dig the hole deeper.

Your page says "I am the owner and director of a private arboretum" but you behave like a child on these forums.

Has anyone mentioned Cicada Killer bees. I have been noticing several bee holes in the soil here. It is interesting to see a bee carrying a large cicada to its hole and then positioning it down into the hole. Watching the cicada killer bee carry the cicada reminded me of when the space shuttle was flown on the back of a jet over our area some years back. These cicadas are what we called
"jaw flies" when we were kids because of all the "jawing"

The hole of the cicada killer looks like a dog has dug in the ground, of course on a much smaller scale, all the soil has been mounded to one of the hole. These bees are also harmless, they make some people nervous because of the their size, about the size of a western hornet.

I am not going to side with anyone but I try and avoid the use of any pesticides except as a last resort. I find that if a plant is in good health it can, generally, deal with any pests itself.
Just for interest, though, I love the cicadas. I don't know about the US ones, but here in Australia they can be LOUD!!!! But what the heck, so can kids, and they can be LOUD for a heck of a lot longer. :-))
Here is one of ours, the Clanger (Psaltoda claripennis).

Close up of its fantastic head, complete with 5 red eyes.

Only large infestations of cicadas can be damaging.

Tenacre, it was implied you didn't know what the bug was, thought it might hurt your tree so you killed it. End of story buddy. There were one to many folks jumping to that conclusion, including myself, for you to think otherwise. But who really cares. I've done it before but after killing lady bug larvae I've studied insects a bit further to identify the good and the bad so I could kill once located. Its not like its going to sit there and wait for you to figure out what it is.

It looks like a cicada killer is getting it's rear end.

Now that you mention it, Whaas, I'd say those conclusions are probably a pretty safe bet. We may never know for sure, but it makes more sense than about anything else that comes to mind. Bottom line is that there's no need to start spraying pesticides until the need to do so has been determined. I'd be willing to bet that such a need was never determined in this case.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think Whaas' post was intended as an invitation to you to lick his boots, brandon.

One of those ugly bugs flew into my car the other day (I had the windows down). Next, I did what any rational person would do, I rolled the windows up and set the car on fire. Yep, I sure taught that little ugly bug a lesson. Thank God I didn't overreact!

"I could be mistaken, but I don't think Whaas' post was intended as an invitation to you to lick his boots, brandon."

More nonsensical comments in an attempt to distract from your blunder? Oh, BTW, how come you keep having to change screennames, "tenacre"?

Speaking of nonsensical comments:

"Soap" or "true soap" (found on the label of some other brands) is the exact same thing as "copper salts of fatty rosin acids" (like from the Dragon brand...

It was an imprecise comment, but not nonsensical.

Now, about all those screen names you've been burning through...are you being banned or do you just make so many stupid comments that you choose to change your identity because of embarrassment?

This post was edited by brandon7 on Sun, Aug 17, 14 at 19:05

It was an imprecise comment...

Wow. Fair enough. I will let it go at that, if you will.

Would you like to bury the hatchet and start over? See if we can't get along?

Or, since you and I are like oil and water, we could even agree to never again comment on each other's posts (that includes thinly veiled sniping as well), if you think that would be a better resolution.

Ball's in your court.

I'm fine with "starting over", but, honestly I don't know what I did to upset you to start with. I didn't even know it was you until things got "heated". Guess it doesn't matter. I will try not to bother you.

Welcome back.

The cicada killers (large digging wasps) drag cicadas in their nests and lay eggs in them to feed. They hatch and the next year come back to the same area to do the same. My neighbors on the next block over from us are swamped with them. They buzz you when you go outside because they get agitated. Some articles say that they don't sting unless provoked, but the trouble is THEY decide whether they are provoked or not. In the last few years the amount of nests have been increasing in my yard and my neighbors and we have been trying everything to get rid of them. We are now going to try chemicals .

Oddly, at no point in this discussion was it ever explained (by OP) what possible reason there could have been to "soak" this lone cicada in permethrin. I do declare, in this forum devoted to (hopefully) well-informed tree care, we collectively question any use of pesticides which seems to be lacking in purpose or forethought. As an outsider to this convo, I get nothing as to why this was done. It does suggest a cavalier approach to such items, which can't be condoned by any thoughtful tree care practitioner. For example, as a certified pesticide applicator, I'd be breaking the law if I applied a material for a purpose for which it had not been labelled, and that aside, I think many if not most of us would agree that any pesticide application, no matter how small, be done with a serious purpose behind it. I hate to pick sides, but in this case it's a cinch-Brandon is a long-standing and very well informed member here. He also happens to be in the right in this case.

+oM