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Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Posted by livelsberger 6B (My Page) on
Sat, Aug 15, 09 at 16:42

I live in southcentral Pennsylvnia and we planted 2 Bradford Pears and 6 Cleveland Pears. I definitely see a difference in them as far as the shape,however what are the pros and cons of each cultivar? Thanks for any tips...please post pics if you have any...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I expect that they would produce a lot of viable seeds that would populate nearby wild areas...

And in 15-25 years, your trees will fall apart. Bradford will be first one to fall apart then Cleveland. Not really much of pros except for fast growth and decent fall color. Just short lived is the biggest con.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Ditto to the above. Other differences:

Bradfor Pear flowers smell of a mixture of rotten fish and vomit
Cleveland Pear flowers smell of a mixture of vomit and rotten fish

Resin


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Dreadful trees. Take them out now before you have much time invested in them and replace them with some better choices.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

They will look absolutely beautiful when they bloom, but pray you have no storms EVER because the trees don't look so wonderful with big holes or a third of the tree gone where huge branches have broken. Also, watch out-some will break off just because they can (like some people) as they age.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Everything that has been said above and more - hopefully you've planted them a safe distance from your house or anything else you want to protect.

From the Frederick Co., MD. Master Gardener Program
..."the Bradford very susceptible to wind and ice damage - in fact, it's rare to see an old planting that doesn't have at least one tree missing a substantial chunk of its limbs and trunk. The angle of the Bradford's branches is generally too narrow, and as the tightly-crowded branches grow in girth, the tree begins to push itself apart. At the first strong wind or heavy ice storm, the tree self-destructs."

Same can be said for the Clevelands.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Gee thanks for all of the negative comments, you'd think being on a tree forum people would actually appreciate the good things trees have to offer on here. And so funny "pineresin"...I mean was that comment really necessary. You people are a bunch of weirdos. The only posters with decent comments were from "cyn427" and "duluthinbloomz4." And yeah, I do live on an acre of land so they are not smack dab up against my house...so no worries over the "dreaded" smell the flowers exude over their "lengthy" 2 week blooming period in April.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Ah, I see the self-appointed "pear police" have found a new target. Don't worry livelsberger, you're just the latest of a LONG line of recipients of their venomnous posts. Do a search on "Bradford pear" on this forum if you want to see a litany of equally cruel remarks. These trolls must enjoy creating enemies, and I'm sure most people don't comprehend such unwarranted nastiness. I'd love to know how many people go out & plant more pears out of spite!!


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

"Do a search on "Bradford pear" on this forum if you want to see a litany of equally cruel remarks"

All made with good reason, and made by numerous people, not just one or two. They really are not good trees. Take a look through other threads too, and you'll see just how much we all like good trees.

Resin


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Hey, livelsberger. I'm sorry you were taken aback by the comments. I think, for my part, that these trees are some of the most beautiful trees in bloom and I think that makes it so much worse for us when they fail. Also, there was just another question on the pears recently where the poster asked for recommendations of what to plant, got lots of ideas that could help avoid the pears, and then went ahead and planted the pears. His house, he can do whatever, but everyone really tried to offer much better alternatives in that case. I know I felt our time was really wasted and that he knew all along he was going to plant the pears. Since you already planted them, your situation is quite different. We have many old Bradfords in our neighborhood along the streets and in spring, the display is breathtaking. We are losing many, though, to breakage. Also, I must not have a very good sense of smell because I never noticed any bad odors from them when walking below them. So-long story short-enjoy your new trees and be ready to be dazzled come spring!


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

To answer your question OP, Cleveland pears have somewhat stronger limbs than Bradfords.. Here's a pic of Cleveland pears on Nov. 2 - glorious autumn color!!!
Photobucket


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

It's always a sticky situation when someone already has them planted...no one wants to destroy their investment and start over. When I moved into my house there were 2 Bradfords planted by the driveway, about 12' tall, so not very old yet. My neighbors thought I was crazy when I cut them down right away and planted little 5-6' trees. Of course they began to understand this past winter during a mild ice storm when nearly every pear in the neighborhood was detroyed. They understood completely during an early spring thunderstorm took down the remaining ones. At least 30 Bradfords and Clevelands were destroyed or lost half their canopy.
That being said, if you don't want to start fresh, I would at least start a very aggressive pruning plan starting this winter. Get in there and open those canopies up. Cut off the tight crotch angle branches, and when they try to sprout new ones next year, keep them snipped off. It can "possibly" add years to the life of your trees.
When it comes to pears, things can get snippy on here. But most of that is actually directed back to the nurseries and retailers that continue to produce and sell these trees to uninformed consumers. If a car company produces a "lemon" of a car, people raise enough hell until it's taken off the market. A "lemon" of a tree was developed in the pears about 50 years ago, and no matter how much hell we raise, we can't get the nurseries to quit producing them.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

"To answer your question OP, Cleveland pears have somewhat stronger limbs than Bradfords.. Here's a pic of Cleveland pears on Nov. 2 - glorious autumn color!!!" ~~~'sue141452'

Thank you so much 'sue141452' that is just the kind of response I was hoping to receive. I already knew their suseptibility to ice damamge due to the fact my parents have had a Bradford for 25 years. Their's has seen it's fair share of breakage, however it's not the end all to end all. They are still a nice shaped tree with beautiful spring blooms and gorgeous fall color. So if in 15, 20, or even 25 years I have to tear them down so be it. Not all trees are created equal and like humans some have a shorter life span. It doesn't make them any less of a tree. I just wanted to know how the two differ, if at all.

Also thanks 'jm30' for some useful tips on pruning to help extend the lifetime of their canopy.

As for the above mentioned trolls, you people are bitter and need to lighten up a little, it's only a tree. It's not like I poured my whole life savings into them. Gee I was just asking some basic "tree 101" questions. Next time I will just use wikipedia and save myself from the barrage of negative opinions.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

You asked what the pros and cons are now you are complaining about the responses? Wow.
This is a tree forum like you said, and the reason people here don't have anything nice to say about them is because people here know trees inside and out.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

  • Posted by brandon7 6b (like 7b now) TN (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 17, 09 at 10:35

If you asked about a Pinto or Yugo in a car forum, would you expect rave reviews? If you asked about one with a really bad exhaust problem, would that make the reviews better? If the truth hurts, don't ask for it.

Bradfords/Clevelands are very invasive (they damage the environment), very weak wooded (they commonly fall apart at a fairly early age), generally short lived (because they fall apart), smell bad when in bloom, and way too common (people who don't know better plant them way too frequently).


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

This is sort of off the primary subject, but interesting nonetheless: many years ago, I attended a talk by famous plantsman, plant hunter, and former Director of the National Arboretum John Creech. The audience consisted of a mixed assortment of green industry professionals (landscapers, landscape architects, growers, arborists, etc.).

He said that of all of the thousands of plants he introduced by one way or another, the Bradford Pear was the one he regretted the most. Not because of the the weaknesses of the tree itself, but because of what WE (he pointed to all of us, lol) had done to it. He never dreamed it would be used to line streets, replace long-lived trees in urban environments, and become the most over-used tree in recent memory.

Rather, it should have been used as an occasional back-yard ornamental specimen, where the spring flowers and fall color would be enjoyed for a few years. When the tree collapsed, it could be replaced by another one.

I'll bet he cringed as he traveled around the country.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Interesting, rhizo, thank you for that.

livelsberger (and suel41452, for that matter)- You really did ask for pros and cons. The Pros gave you their cons and you call them trolls?

tj


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

The Pros gave you their cons and you call them trolls?

Buyer's remorse makes some folk act funny.

BTW, most tree experts (e.g. Dirr, Harris, McPherson) must be trolls too because they say essentially the same thing as others upthread.

Its a conspiracy!!! Conspiracy!!!

Dan


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

"you people are bitter and need to lighten up a little, it's only a tree"

It's a tree, yes. It is also a people-killer, car-crusher, and home-destroyer.

Let the buyer beware! And make sure you have plenty of insurance to cover for the problems that they will cause. Though you may find it difficult to get insurance cover for a preventable known hazard.

Resin


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Get over it now people...talk about not letting a thread rest...if I had known it was such a touchy subject I would have never asked what the diff. was between the two Pears. Don't get me wrong, I expected cons to be listed however I didn't expect the smart ass comments and over the top scenarios the entire thread. What a way to welcome a newbie. I get it now... the "Tree Gods" have spoken. And please, be rest assured that the 6 Clevelands and 2 Bradfords I have planted in the back of my acre property won't cause any fatalities, fender benders or apocalypses anytime soon...I sure hope my homeowners insurance covers damage from limbs falling into an open space. Duh!


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

  • Posted by brandon7 6b (like 7b now) TN (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 19, 09 at 9:24

Livelsberger,

Your reaction seems hostile and inappropriate. Maybe you don't like the honest answers you got, but that doesn't warrant rude comments towards people that are just trying to help.

There may be other opinions out there, but every comment above is based in fact and was provided for your benefit.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

...if I had known it was such a touchy subject I would have never asked what the diff. was between the two Pears. ... the smart ass comments and over the top scenarios the entire thread...

snork

Nothing was touchy until YOU started the widdle namie-name calling. So you don't like the answers knowledgeable people give you. As you say, get over it. Next time you ask a question in public, before you get a reply let the person know you'll resent the answer - it'll save everyone a lot of time.

Dan


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Livelsberger - I like your style! Your response was very entertaining & right-on!

Here's my rebuttal to their cons:

1. The "horrible smell" - Unless one has the hypersensitivity of an Edgar Allan Poe character, a person would have to stick their nose right on the blooms to smell them at all.

2. The short life span - dwarf flowering ornamental fruit trees typically live 10-20 years, I've never read a negative rant on them!

3. People-killer, car-crusher, and home-destroyer? Storm damage? Other trees get storm damage & keel over, too. Pine trees have shallow roots and often the whole tree falls over - but I don't recall rants about pine trees! Lots of huge trees get uprooted in bad storms & hurricanes and kill people - including oaks! Towering trees often get hit by lightning, knocking off huge limbs and even splitting in half! People & livestock can be killed by lightning under a huge tree! Wildfires are fed by trees, destroying homes, people, wildlife! So by that absurd logic, no one should plant ANY tree!

Actually, the REAL hidden agenda for slamming these pear trees is that they consider them an extremely invasive plant. They might make some converts to their cause if they write diplomatic & tactful posts (if indeed they know how, which I doubt!) on that subject.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

It's not necessarily a "hidden" agenda. For me personally, the invasiveness is the worst aspect of the tree. It's not my property that gets destroyed or my years of growing a tree lost when these break down, but it's the invasive nature that is such a concern to me. This past spring (during the bloom season) I was driving through North Carolina and I was amazed at the mile after mile of bright white trees covering the natural areas along the highway. That's the best time to judge the invasiveness, when they are in bloom and easy to spot. For 200 miles, all I saw were fields of white, choking out all the native plants and trees.
And in response to the comments about breakage. The pears are a much different story than other trees. Sure, during severe storms or hurricanes, many trees are going to lose limbs or come down. But the pears, with the horrendous branching structure, have so much force and pressure centered in it's narrow crotch angles in combination with their dense canopy; can completely self destruct with the slightest of breeze. Sometimes in a dead calm, half of the tree will finally just give out and break away. I've witnessed it myself, sitting on my deck with no wind, heard a loud pop and saw half my neighbors 20 year old bradford come crashing down.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

  • Posted by brandon7 6b (like 7b now) TN (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 19, 09 at 12:04

Sue,

You bring up some interesting points. The bad smell does seem to vary, from my experience, from place to place or from time to time. That's one reason I didn't make much of that point. In most of my experiences, like you mentioned, you have to be right up next to the tree to notice much of a smell. I have experienced cases though, where the smell was highly annoying at a distance of at least a couple of hundred feet. I'm unsure about what made the difference, but it was definitely the Bradford Pears causing the unpleasant odor.

While dwarf fruit trees do tend to have shorter lives, comparing those with callery pears is not reasonable. Callery pears are planted as ornamentals and are often expected to last many years. If homeowners realized they would last such a short time, they obviously wouldn't choose, in most cases, to plant them. Dwarf fruit trees are grown mostly for the fruit and in particular situations where some decrease in life-expectancy is worth the benefits of very limited size and quick production.

I think your comparison of callery pears to other trees is way off base. I do see some types of pines fail frequently (mainly with the borer problem we have around here), and so wouldn't suggest planting them near a home. Your comparison with trees in general is just ridiculous. Most trees are relatively safe. Bradfords do cause an extremely disproportionate amount of damage.

The invasive issue is important, but I haven't noticed it driving the conversation at all. There are much worse treats out there that receive fewer negative comments. So, your argument is illogical and can easily be discounted. Maybe you could say that a combination of factors leads to callery pear's bad rep.

I wonder how familiar you really are with these trees.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Perhaps Sue is a grower with a substantial capital investment in ornamental pears. What else would be the motivation for the mischaracterizations and logical fallacies and lack of testimonials from professionals?

It is a mystery why they continue to be sold. Perhaps we need some 'lemon tree laws' ;o) .

Dan


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I look at these trees as lost opportunities. Lost opportunity for a long lived tree, for a tree that can provide substantial shade, for a tree that can increase property value, a tree that won't reseed itself invasively. Lost opportunity for a tree with character and individuality, a tree that might set an example in the neighborhood and start a trend of planting such trees of quality.


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Re: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

  • Posted by brandon7 6b (like 7b now) TN (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 19, 09 at 13:52

The word "treats", in my last post, should be "threats".

During lunch, I was thinking about why these trees do elicit as much of a negative reaction as they do. I think it's a combination of two things. They are way way way overused, and, as Rhizo said so well, they represent so many lost opportunities for much better solutions.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

The thing that I find most disturbing is the greedy corporations that keep growing and shipping these weeds and keep selling them, especially in areas they are so invasive. I don't fault the person who buys the tree they are oblivious to the the problems and don't really understand the problems.

It's not surprising that people act like the OP when they find out they've been had. Nobody likes to have that happen and to learn their tree is not the prized specimen they were thinking it was.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I have no interest in these particular trees, but I do have a noob question.

How can something so inferior and weak be so invasive and dominating over the tougher native plants?


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Just because they are inferior and weak trees does not mean they are inferior and weak growers. They are very aggressive and extremely fast growers. They can grow in practically any conditions, whereas native plants grow where they are naturally adapted to. Certain weeds can grow and agressively take over a lawn, correct? So can "weed" trees. Their seeds can be spread easily and start growing in any conditions. In a native setting, plants reseed in a balanced fashion.
That is a good statement regarding "lost opportunities". I have a friend who planted a Bradford a little over 20 years ago. Currently, you can see the gap forming right down the middle of the canopy, where the 2 halves of the tree are pushing each other apart. At the top of the canopy, the gap is almost 2 feet now. He knows it break at any time now, and at his age he knows he'll never have another shade tree of significant size in his front yard. Whereas with a good selection 20 years ago, he wouldn't be outliving his shade tree.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Hi tree people, I tried to post this question before, but don't see it up. Forgive if it shows twice. Does anyone know if there is really a difference between "the bradford pear" and "the NEW BRADFORD PEAR" ? Supposingly the new has stronger branches and not nearly as many problems as the bradford pear.. (already bought a bunch and planted before I read up on these fruitless pears)


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Isn't Cleveland or Aristocrat usually the name of the "new bradford pear"?

BTW, one of these was on my property when I bought it. I'll probably never plant one, I'm not cutting mine down though, or parking under it on windy, snowy, or sunny days.

I would think if you look you can do better.

Here is a link that might be useful: .edu link


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

-Posted by suel41452 z6b-7aVA (My Page) on Sun, Aug 16, 09 at 16:41

"Ah, I see the self-appointed "pear police" have found a new target. Don't worry livelsberger, you're just the latest of a LONG line of recipients of their venomnous posts. Do a search on "Bradford pear" on this forum if you want to see a litany of equally cruel remarks. These trolls must enjoy creating enemies, and I'm sure most people don't comprehend such unwarranted nastiness. I'd love to know how many people go out & plant more pears out of spite!!"

I read this post over a year ago and revisited it several times before carefully selecting the perfect tree for my yard. I looked at all the pros and cons to planting a Cleveland Select Pear (which is an improvement on the Bradford Pear and not the same as the Bradford Pear). I was really taken aback by all the negativity and exaggeration on this forum about Cleveland Select Pear trees. They are not widely planted in my area, so this tree is unique to my neighborhood. I researched many of the suggestions on this forum about alternatives and they just didn't fit the bill for my soil, location and what I wanted. Hence why it took so long before purchasing the right tree. I planted 12 trees this past Spring, Summer and Fall... all various evergreens except for one and I saved that one for last because I wanted to check out the latest studies. Some of the reasons I chose to plant a Cleveland Select Pear tree are because it is NOT on the Invasive Alien Plant Species list in my state and it matched perfectly with what I needed. After much research, this new cultivar does not have all of the problems that some of the scathing members on here attest. They are thinking of the Bradford Pear and not the Cleveland Select. So in a way, I felt motivated to specifically plant the Cleveland Select Pear just by the sheer uncalled for negativity that some of the members on this board have for this tree. I have seen various trees fall and break due to storms and age because that is what trees do. So Sue wanted to how many people have done spite planting due to the "Pear Police" -well count me in because their over the top comments encouraged me to find out the real truth about this tree and plant it!


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Hey Sarris, what state do you live in?

There's practically nothing about the Cleveland that's any better than the Bradford. They are different cultivars, but any benefits of Cleveland are largely exaggerated.

So far as planting it in spite, it's kind of like a small child insisting on touching the glowing hot stove eye. You can tell them not to do it, but sometimes they just have to learn for themselves, and some take longer to learn than others. That doesn't mean it's wrong to warn them though.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Sarris,
Sadly, you're mistaken about the invasive potential of 'Cleveland Select' - but that well may be because the 'invasive list' you accessed listed 'Bradford', when it should have said 'callery' pear.
Bradford, Cleveland Select, Redspire, etc. are all selections from the introduced species, Pyrus calleryana - the callery pear.
'Bradford', when it was introduced, did not produce fruit(or seeds), because there was, for the most part, nothing else in the landscape to pollenize it - but with the introduction of all the new, 'improved' callery pears, cross-pollenation resulted in ALL the callery pears producing prodigious amounts of fruit(and seed) which were then consumed by birds and spread over the countryside.
So, even though your 'list' did not specify 'Cleveland Select', if there are other callery pears - other than 'Cleveland Select' in the neighborhood, your tree most likely will soon be contributing to the increasing number of invasive 'volunteer' callery pears for miles around - or at least as far as the local &/or migratory birds that feed on the fruits travel before they defecate them out.
Just have a look at the other thread here, for a glimpse of what's to come...

Here is a link that might be useful: Be Afraid...


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Beautiful trees, but they do break. We just lost our second Bradford to a storm Monday. They have a nice shape and are very pretty, but like everyone says, they break. Keep them away from your house. Definitely hire a tree service to prune them properly and then maybe you will be able to keep them. I was just about to schedule the tree service.....now I'm scheduing a tree removal. It is very sad because they provide great shade which we sorely need here in S.C.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Thanks to their thorny invasive tendencies the Clevelands and Bradfords have made Missouri's no plant list. Heck, sounds like MOBOT was giving away trees this year to folks to replace existing Bradfords.

While I don't think I would go around chopping the clones down there is no need to go planting more.

I have a thread with some links on it someplace. Apparently by the time they hybridize with each other or other trees the wild ones have thorns lol


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Ok, so it's obvious what the prevailing opinion is from the tree Nazis on this site. But maybe what has taken some people aback are all the negative comments without adding anything helpful. You might think planting them is short sited but you have admit they have some awfully nice qualities. I had one big one smack in the middle of my small lawn since I bought the house (so don't be hatin'!) and loved it. Perfect round shape, dense shade, pretty white flowers in spring (admittedly the smell wasn't great but it wasn't very strong either, and only one or two weeks a year) and even more beautiful in the fall. Most years it would change in waves so half would be bright red or orange while the other half was still green. Just gorgeous.

But inevitably my tree just split in half after a particularly windy week following an extremely dry summer. So I started researching and found this forum, and my obvious question is this: do any of you super-critical supposed tree experts have any suggestions for varieties that share the good qualities of pears (spring flowers plus great shape and density plus brilliant fall colors) without their weaknesses? The more I look around at other varieties this fall the more I realize how much I'll miss my pear.

And a side question: I have no idea whether mine was a Bradford or Cleveland. Is there any way to definitively tell by looking at the leaves or fruit? (If it was a Bradford and I don't find a promising enough replacement by spring I may try Cleveland. If it was Cleveland I'll probably just give up on the pears.)

Thank you in advance,
Chris


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

my obvious question is this: do any of you super-critical supposed tree experts

==>> you insult us.. then ask for help ..

not in my world

ken

pd: and to top it all off.. your beloved tree broke.. JUST AS WE SUGGESTED IT WOULD ... whats that all about ...

pps: cleveland select.. is a cultivar SELECTED to be a better BP.. but its still a bradford pear.. that stinks to high heaven in bloom.. has poor branching.. and breaks when it darn well feels like it ... only a self-important fool would consider planting another one ...


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

  • Posted by lkz5ia z5 west iowa (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 19, 12 at 18:43

A good strategy for short lived trees is plant them in intervals and works out great. So if you liked it that much, plant another one next year and another in 10 or so years and so on..


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Man, what makes tree people so angry? They always seem to have a calming effect on me.

Dude, perhaps you didn't read my entire post but "I told you so" doesn't make a lot of sense as the tree was already there when I moved in years ago. I didn't even know what kind it was till it started falling apart recently and I looked into it, years after I fell in love with it. And I've never been to this forum before TODAY.

But when you're right, you're right. I should have listened.

Anyway, sarcasm aside you ARE right that I was wrong to insult and I apologize. It's just hard to read this entire thread as I did and not build up some resentment to the haters who seemed to take pleasure in effectively calling this guy an idiot while providing no actual help. My insult was directed at them, not all users of this site. If you were not one of them you have no reason to take offense.

And on the topic of not taking offense, you'll be happy to know I take none to your attempted insult since it is again completely nonsensical to call someone a name for doing the very thing they are asking for help to avoid doing. (Which you, of course, are refusing to provide. That'll learn me!)

If any less touchy site regulars have suggestions I would still be grateful.

Thanks,
Chris


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Thanks lkz5ia. Sorry, my last post was directed at that friendly ken fella.

I appreaciate the idea but I don't quite have the the space for that. Unfortunately with my small yard it kinda "all in", which I guess is making it that much harder to lose my great tree only to then learn that the variety I enjoyed so much has a fatal flaw.

But thank you.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Dinkledort,

You used multiple insults scattered through your post claiming those warning against these trees were "tree Nazis". You said that you just loved your tree and that it was so wonderful. Then you turn around and admit that "the smell wasn't great" and that your "tree just split in half" (Imagine that!).

Ken just pointed out the rather perplexing irony in your argument, and you seem to take it personally. What a riot!

Ditto what Ken said.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

We do get a little riled up about the Bradford clones. Heck, this year I even showed the folks at work where they are popping up in the middle of the burning bushes. Guess they're the more annoyi.g invasive lol.

Really I am sorta moderate. I even 'gasp' own a Bradford/Cleveland. My plan is wait for it to split apart then plant a less invasive tree which will get its fall color before the leaves freeze off.

There are tree forms of serviceberry which seem to enjoy full sun. For sites with some shade regular Cornus florida dogwoods or Cornus kousa if your area Cornus floridas are having a rough time. I have a slight preference for Cornus florida.

Wanna talk about something non exciting like how bailing out Chrysler three decades ago was a good idea but the GM bailout was wrong?


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

It sure is easier to argue when you either don't read or just plain ignore stuff, isn't it?

I acknowledged I should not have been insulting and apologized. But if you'd like to point it out and call me a meanie a third time, go for it. But first you should read all the responses to the original question of this thread which were the cause of my hostility, however misplaced and self-defeating.

Do you only love things that are perfect? Do you instantly stop loving them and wipe past love from memory when they die? If like me you answer no then I'm not sure what irony you're referring to. If you answer yes then I'm afraid we'll probably never see eye to eye.

Thanks for reading. Goodnight.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Hey, that was me trying to be nice! I even admitted leaving one in place until it breaks apart.

Now my natural conversational pattern is a bit abrasive.

Perhaps deregulation of the Savings & Loan industry in the 80's would be a more timely topic during the waning weeks of this election cycle. That can't stir up any hard feelings ;)


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

To each their own. "tree nazis" is a bit over the top; I just don't really care for bradford pears, cleveland pears, or any other callerys. I'm not going to yell at anyone if they've already planted a bradford, but if they are in the deciding which tree phase, I'd rather see them plant something they'd get more enjoyment out of. The reason they're even still sold is that they are easy to grow in nurseries, and everybody knows them (good or bad). Just don't blame the "tree police" if one cracks apart.

Bradford pears are pretty when in bloom, but there are good replacements. Try an apple serviceberry (Amelanchier x grandiflora), maybe a carolina silverbell. Even domestic apple trees are quite pretty when in bloom.

Everybody's entitled to their opinions; you can't hardly say ANYTHING these days without "offending" SOMEBODY.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

And, answering the question, Cleveland select is an improved bradford pear. Its overall form and habit is better than seed-grown callerys, but it is still prone to the same problems as plain old callery pear.

I used to like these trees, but they just rub me the wrong way now.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Crabapples are a nice replacement-bloom beautifully, are native, non-invasive, can be either fruiting (good for birds) or you can get newer ones that don't, have many forms so you can pick the shape that suits. I love my white-blooming ones. My neighbor has several with pink blooms.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Reasons Why These Trees Are Hated:
1. They are all clones of 1 tree
2. They have a weak structure
3. Short lifespan
4. No ecological benefits (are not host plants)
5. Are considered an invasive species (displacing native plants)
6. Smells like rotten fish when blooming especially when planted in mass
7. Fruit can be messy
8. Is extremely over planted
9. Short flowering season (2 weeks tops)
10. Doesn't actually produce pears (creates little packages of slimy goo filled sacks with thousands of seeds)
* People, the point is that there are so many great trees out there to choose from. Why settle for a tree that will cause you misery and grief?


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Not all flowering crabs are native, but they certainly aren't invasive. They hold their form longer than bradford pear, thus making a better option for long-term landscaping. That's something people don't think about: What is your lanscape going to look like in 10, 20, 30+ years?


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I was talking about the pears not the apples


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I was referring to cyn427's post - Sorry!


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I really love the look of a mature Bradford (I think Bradfords are more globe shaped and Clevelands are more oval???) in spring and their glossy little leaves in the summer. I have a ~20y old Cleveland in front of my house right now and its ugly. The branch structure was pruned very well from its planting but now because of fire-blight the tree is just not salvageable. I wish I could have saved it but cannot. Perhaps the crotches would have broken this winter with an ice storm or maybe this spring in a thunderstorm, I dont know. I do think they are beautiful trees in a residential setting but there are probably better choices. I will not be replanting a pear this year after I fell the tree in my front yard.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

  • Posted by dis_ z9 CA (My Page) on
    Tue, Oct 23, 12 at 3:21

There is a mall near me where they planted up the islands with Bradfords or Clevelands. I love the red color in fall. I usually miss seeing them when they're in bloom because their bloom cycle is so short.

They are an insurance nightmare waiting to happen. I wonder how many cars will be damaged before they take them all out and plant something else.

Crape myrtle is a much better choice. They could have their pick of bloom color and final size. I wonder that they didn't plant them.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

On the positive side, most bradfords around town are actually showing their fall color this year. GO HEAT AND DROUGHT!

A few like mine are waiting and still green. Eventually a good frost will come and do away with their leaves leaving the only interest their terrible branching structure.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Hi, this is my first time on this site and I found it by typing in bradford vs. cleveland pear trees on yahoo. After reading all the posts, some not very nice, I hope you all can help me without insult. I am not an expert so that's why I have come here to comment. I have watched the Bradford's every spring for the last 13 years, but more so I have watched their fall color explosion. I love these trees for there spring floral, summer shiny green leaves, and most of all fall glory. BUT, I do not have one in my yard because of the brittlness of them. And that was before learning of the invasivness of the plant. I really really really want the spring floral plus spectacular fall color show, but still leaving a nice looking tree for summer. My street comes street down to my house and turns just before my drive. It's a deadend street just two houses past mine. We do not get alot of traffic, but I LOVE my yard. I have been working hard on the back yard designing and planting different sections with a winding path. But the front section I have been waiting to decide what to do. There is a ten foot strip in between my drive and the neighbors drive, neither of which would have the car parked there but rather just drive on through. I planned on building a stone mailbox column at the road in the spring. Twenty feet from the road is a white scalloped picket fence I build this fall, planted with knock-out roses and crepe myrtles. I would love a lovely tree to plant there in front of the fence with spring, summer, and definitely fall interest. Something not too big, but still grows with reasonable speed. I would reds, oranges, and yellows in the fall color. Please give me options to the pears. I promise I will not waste you time and then go out and buy the pear in the end. I haven't waited 13 years debating my options to give into the pear. A lovely varigated dogwood might be good. But I have not seen one in person only in the catalogs. Please help. Thank you all for your advise.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

@ WendyJo123 you should have made another post. This is called hijacking and it is frowned upon in forums. Anyways, dogwoods would work, carolina silverbell, white fringe tree, and serviceberry comes to mind as other options.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

WendyJo, I think that you will get a lot more help if you post your own brand new thread in this forum. After all, this is an old post about the pears...and that's not what you want to know about. Come up with a title for your thread that pertains to your question...a small, colorful, flowering tree.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Dogwood in some shade, serviceberry in more sun sound about right? Fall color is not as exciting but redbuds seem to make my friends smile.

Our native dogwood is Cornus florida. Cornus kousa is Asian import which is recommended in some places.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

what they said..

mostly.. so that if you check the box below where you type .. the replies will come to your email ... so you will know when someone answers ..

and second.. a couple pix of your yard.. will get you much more specific ideas ...

i have a few thoughts.. and will await your new post ... dont be shy .. we like to help ...

my thoughts will revolve around succession of flowering ...

ken


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Strange all the negative comments. My nursery man highly recommended the Cleaveland. They don't die early unless you think 50 or 60 years is early. LOL! And they don't break like the Bradford Pear.

An exciting development in flowering pear trees ��" Cleveland Pears are a great improvement over Bradford Pears and Aristocrat Pears. You get that perfect, symmetrical oval shape in a much hardier, stronger tree.

The Cleveland Pear hybrid resists damage from extreme snow, ice and wind.

Quickly grows to 30-40 ft. tall...an ideal size for small and medium sized yards.

They are very pest resistant as well, so there’s never any maintenance.

In the fall, the leaves turn from a deep summer green to a dark scarlet red.

If you’ve always wanted a flowering pear for your lawn and landscape, the Cleveland Pear is by far the best variety.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Maggieodae,

Yes, unfortunately, some nurserymen do sometimes recommend COMPLETELY HORRID stuff. It's hard to know if they are really that unfamiliar with the product they are selling or if they just don't care and are trying to push their junk out to make a buck.

As can be confirmed by countless reliable sources, Cleveland Pears have all the problems that Bradfords do. Some negatives may be SLIGHTLY less than for Bradfords, but trash is trash! They are just as invasive in most of their possible growing range, in this country. They still stink horribly. They may not be quite as bad to break apart, but they still do. And, they still die at an early age. I would no sooner plant a Cleveland pear than I would a Bradford, and I wouldn't think of planting either.

If I were you, I'd look for a better nurseryman.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

" Strange all the negative comments. My nursery man highly recommended the Cleaveland. They don't die early unless you think 50 or 60 years is early. LOL! And they don't break like the Bradford Pear."

Oh Maggie, this was a salesman making money in tough times :(

Do not believe everything any salesman tells you.

Look, I can legitimately tell you your new Cleveland will probably last a decade or so and if invasiveness does not bother you then go for it. BUT you lose the right to complain if I plant bamboo on your property line or about any derelict cars and busses your neighbors have.

Ug, salesmen.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Well as a salesman (a car salesman too, the absolute worst, right?) the above comments somewhat bother me. Not every salesman is a liying dirt bag committed only to insidiously miss-represent anything/everything to you in hopes of coersing his helpless victems into making the absolute worst decision one could make both functionally and even better financially too! In actual reality though let's say maybe 1% of salesmen/women are the ones that give honest folks a bad name. Those salesman who earn a successful carrer and are true professionals learned something very early on, the most detrimemtal practice to partake in is liying. About anything, not just the product you represent or to hain the upper hand during the process. Roughly 40% of my business is repeat and referral business. Even the most daft of the mentally weak know that you will not get someone's hard earned income (much less a loyal client base that happily sends you their friends/family only to reduce their financial holdings as well!) if someone even remotely thinks your being dishonest, much less knows it for sure/can prove it.

How about this scenario. The salesman Maggie worked with just happened to like pears and maybe even has them at his home. What if not everyone hated pears with the same amount of gusto you happen posses? Difference of opinion are what I believe make life interesting and some of us that have this belief view opposing thoughts as a chance to see things from a new/different view. This alternate position can lend itself to edification on one but hopefull both parts which is unbelievably satisfying to speak lay. heres one that might as well be grouped with other fantastic tales like Tron/Alice in wonderland or works from Homer such as Iliad/Odyssey....... Maggie told her sales associate that she wanted a quick growing tree that wasn't that picky, didnt require much extra care, was medium sized, was a mostly pest resistant tree and not only was pretty in spring during bloom (unfortunately i dont believe it's possible to be sarcastically factual in relation to that awful smell these trees produce when flowering!) but also beautiful fall aesthetics to behold that IMO and area; can hang with all but the very, very best. I would say a pear would fit that bill quite nicely and again, if this were the what transpired that day, one might be compelled to say her salesperson knocked it out of the park!

I have one (Cleveland I believe) in my front yard that's at least as old as my house, 23. It doesn't have one injury from breakage. I live in St.Louis btw, where any and all weather phenomena can and most likely will happen. Freezing rain, check. Snow, yep! Sleet, yes. Tornadoes... were in the ally. Powerful spring thunderstorms that not only come with the chance of destructive wind but also lightening that could split even the mightiest of Oak. Am I planning on cutting it down, yes. But for reasons I find cause to do so, nothing that has been listed earlier in this thread. Chiefly, I plan to be at this home for the long haul and pears simply do not get large enough to have the impact I invision a tree in my front yard to possess. Also my pear received little to no shape pruning throughout its life. Because of this I had no choice but to trim it in a way where I just don't like the way it looks now. I had to remove many of the lowest/oldest/most substantial branches. Even if I did allow it the years it would take to hopefully regrow, I'm not confident it would ever return to a form that I would be satisfied with. It's a damn fine tree that 99/100 homeowners would be tickled to have in their yard. There is no imminent danger of structural calamity even though it wasn't cared for properly. I would bet it'd be good as it sits right now for at least another 15 years, if some simple reinforcements were made to the trunk/s (i.e. I-bolts with SS wire between them stabilizing trunks growing from only the most acute of crotches) likely would live 30 or more years with only minimal upkeep.

So yes, pears most certainly have some negative aspects but I think everyone who visits this site would be able to glean even more from GW if folks would ask a few questions in an attempt to actually see if a pear was a good/the smart choice. If these actions did nothing but reduce the frequency of threads like this that would be progress. Over and over again it's the same hostile comments which are somewhat humorous because we're talking about a tree, unproductive suggestions and general morale deflating occur then ill consider the time this took a worthwhile effort.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

From the UConn Horticulture website:

" 'Bradford' - One of the most common and recognizable ornamental trees in the American landscape, this early-flowering tree is popular for its dense branching and broadly pyramidal habit to 50' tall and 40' wide. It grows quickly as a young tree and offers good resistance to fireblight. However, this tree has a genetic predisposition to form tight branch crotch angles that are points of weakness. Thus, unless pruned the tree will eventually split under its weight due to high winds, storms, ice, snowload, etc. It is therefore strongly recommended that other cultivars be utilized. Regardless of cultivar, Pyrus calleryana is wholly overused in the landscape, leading to monotony and boredom. The rigid habit of the plant also makes the species appear out-of-place in most situations. Other plant choices should generally be investigated when P. calleryana is called for."

" 'Glen's Form' (Chanticleer®, also known as 'Select', 'Cleveland Select', 'Stone Hill' and 'Stonehill') - Considered perhaps the finest selection for contemporary use, this plant assumes an upright, pyramidal habit to 30' tall and 15' wide. It is much narrower than 'Bradford', and also is longer-lived and perhaps hardier. It shows good fireblight resistance and attractive red-purple fall color."

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: There are SO MANY BETTER ALTERNATIVES than Bradford, Cleveland, Chanticleer, whatever, pears. Why waste a valuable resource (land/space) with these things?

Plant a serviceberry, a dogwood, a crabapple, a redbud, a yellowwood, a buckeye, a hawthorn (there's a good alternative!), a magnolia, ANYTHING BUT CALLERY PEAR!!!!!

We are not saying that all salesmen are crooks, but it seems there are quite a few that are only out to get money. (I definitely appreciate honest, helpful sales persons, which are a golden find. There are plenty out there, though).

It helps when a person making a recommendation is qualified in their field - Most of the regulars on this forum grow trees as a hobby, for business, whatever. With years of experience with trees, you'd think recommendations made would be, for the most part, accurate.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

After reading Bsmith's post, I'm wondering if his favorite car is the Ford Pinto. I'm sure it has some wonderful qualities. It's a small compact so probably gets better gas mileage than a tank, it's affordable, and it's well-known. I can see Bsmith out there in front of his car dealership, with his white teeth showing in a giant smile and his arms outstretched, waiting for that next victim I mean customer.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Brandon, be nice! ;)


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

removed double post

This post was edited by jimbobfeeny on Sat, Mar 16, 13 at 10:04


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Hey, you gotta admit that Bsmith's advocacy for the atrocious combined with his profession brings out a certain image. It's nothing personal (I don't know Bsmith at all, or have any idea how he sells cars), but his post still brings up that stereotypical car salesman image.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I for one am not a regular on this forum, but enjoy visiting here.
You guys have a great sense of humour besides being knowledgeable - I like that!

Personally,,,I think they are beautiful "looking" in Spring, but they STINK! I hate the way they smell.
They were planted all over campus when I was attending college and EVERY spring that god-awful smell permeated the entire campus, even into the classrooms!. It literally made me sick.

I would plant a fruiting pear (has the same flowers) and produces fruit you can eat and has a stronger trunk and branches. In fact, I did.

I agree with the Crabapple tree as a replacement. Gorgeous pink and red flowers in spring - doesn't self-replicate all over the countryside and smells so sweet and lovely.

Clevelands and Bradfords are invading the countryside here in central Oklahoma. They are escaping the bounds of people's well-roomed, spit-spot, manicured yards and invading every neighboring bare tract of land. and SPREADING!

The blooms are definitely pretty to SEE in spring, but invasive, invasive, invasive.....and the flowers STINK. (vomit and rotten fish - that is EXACTLY how they smell to me too)

We have to be responsible gardeners, just like we have to be responsible parents. Just because candy and ice cream is pretty and tasty and your kids want to eat at McDonald's every day, doesn't mean we should allow it. They become malnourished and yet they get FAT!!! and that is a killer. If we care about their health and their futures, we have to take the responsibility to see that they eat healthy foods and don't let them eat all that crap all the time.

SO it is with us as gardeners. We have to be responsible and caring about our environment and the ecosystems around us or it will be our own doom.

This was such a lively topic. Loved reading it. :)

~Annie
a tree-hugger


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

We HAD 2 Bradfords in our backyard when we bought the house. I never noticed a smell but it might have been early in the season and we weren't out that much. Anyway the wind took out both of these - different years and the wind wasn't that bad. One took our electric out with it. I'm sure these were the latest and greatest when the former owner picked them and didn't know how susceptible they are to damage. I wouldn't recommend a Bradford, I'm sure there are other beautiful options without the con of being so prone to wind damage. It is hard to start over with a new tree.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

The passion on this forum is amazing. Thank you to jimbobfeeny for offering more than just opinion and criticism but some other good tree options for a gardening novice looking to add beauty to her landscape.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I have two Cleveland Pears planted in 1996 when they were about 8’ tall. They are about 20’-25’ tall now. They are on a south hill with a row of Leyland Cypress trees in front of them to the north and Crimson King Maples beside them so they are well protected from the wind. About every four to five years starting when they were about 8 years old I have them topped and remove most of the branches except the main trunk lines. The trees look pretty sad for a while the years this is done but I have never lost any branches during storms and they are 17 years old now. By the end of the summer in the years they are topped, many branches have grown back and they look fine the next year. I don’t allow them to get any higher than 20-25 feet. I am in northern Virginia and we don’t get a lot of snow although we have had bad years like 2010 when we had a record 52 inches. When we get snow, it is typically heavy wet snow and we get a lot of ice storms. We are subject to high winds during thunder storms, tropical storms and hurricane remnants like Irene and Sandy, and many nor’easters. If you are willing to give some thought about the where to plant these trees and follow an aggressive pruning plan, you can keep them from many years.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I forgot all about this thread!

Brandon, I'm with you and I don't take anything you've said personally. Given the reputation of car salesman and your clear disdain for the pears it makes sense.

Over the few months since posting I have to admit that I dislike pears more now then when I made that post. Just looking at all the pears in my subdivision nearing what I would say is the end of their purposeful life's aesthetically. Most of them were planted in the early 90's making them 20-25 years old lets say. The majority of them are thinning from who knows what, suffering from blight and/or also have broken limbs making them look out of balance. Just not good looking.

While the Ashs' in my back yard, most maples and the various oaks (mostly pin) are just hitting their stride and starting to get that maturish tree look to them.

So I'm beginning to think that while pears do have their pluses like quick growth and pretty leaves, there are many other hardwood trees available that offer the same benefits as well as being tough enough to stay structurally sound in a storm, not stink and likely outlive the person planting it.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

If you are willing to give some thought about the where to plant these trees and follow an aggressive pruning plan, you can keep them from many years.

Why would you want to keep them for many years when you've gone to all that trouble to make them ugly by topping them?

We have people around here that do that too. Very ugly outcome. I wonder if they are also rejoicing that they get to keep these misshapen things for many years?

Topping is an ugly practice that is only done to trees that were poorly chosen for the spot (or in this case just poorly chosen).


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

My own experiences with Cleveland Pears are they are beautiful trees, year 'round, and yes, they are fragile.
in 1999 I planted 15 Cleveland select pears down my 500' driveway. They were wonderful trees, until the freak Halloween Storm of 2011. I lost half the trees and the other half in Superstorm Sandy , But in those years, the trees were great, Small enough to put Christmas Lights on, They had perfect winter form, Nice blooms (a little stinky, but ok), Nice dark green leaves and fantastic fall colors changing from yellow, to red to purple. After the storms, I removed the broken trees and now have 3 years supply of fire wood. It is like the book "The Giving Tree". But alas I won't plant any more. It also gave me a bad shoulder humping all that wood.

This post was edited by DJ1975 on Mon, Sep 2, 13 at 9:40


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I guess the upshot is that if you want a tree that is good for 20 years and don't mind the fact that they reseed themselves all over the place crowding out other trees, then plant a row of these and put aside a few bucks every year for topping or removal. Prepare to give them attention just when you don't have the time (after a storm). Ignore the pleas of the backyard fruit growers who claim that Bradford Pears (catch all name) is breeding disease because of all the wild ones that nobody cares for. The wild ones breed pear psylla, fireblight and aphids, but why should the Bradford Pear grower. He/she gets a week of bloom and a few weeks of color. The neighbors are the ones who get the problems.

Typhoid Mary didn't get typhoid, but she killed a few people who did by continuing to work at food preparation after she knew she was infective. Similar scenario with these trees. Some people will defend them even with the knowledge that overall, they are a nuisance at best, and a menace to the neighbors at times.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Well I can attest that these trees have not reseeded themselves, causing unwanted growth. Even along fence rows where the birds poop out the seeds. Outside of the larger trunks we used for firewood, we chipped up the rest . No signs of regrowth. Perhaps they are an invasive plant; but rest assured, mother nature took out her revenge. Yeah I will not plant them again.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

And PSS. I am a land surveyor, trained to identify trees for land owners (backyard fruit tree growers) I and have never seen one in the NJ wild.
Your analogy to Typhoid Mary shows me you are a nut job.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I think Dzitmoidonc's analogy is pretty good. The invasive nature of Pyrus calleryana is very well documented, including in New Jersey. The problem is not as severe, yet, in New Jersey as in some other places. But it still definitely exists!

Your saying that you can attest to your trees not having reseeded themselves points to a lack of understanding of the problem. Unless you've thoroughly surveyed at least a square mile around your planting site, you wouldn't necessarily know the problem existed. Waves of invasive plants usually populate areas in an exponential way - very slowly at first, while they get a foot-hold in the area. When they are easily noticed, the problem has often grown to a significant amount.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

DJ1975, I am the nut job? I am not the one claiming professional status and either intentionally ignorant of the problem or completely unknowing and claiming to know what is going on. One is the definition of nut job, the other makes one question your claimed awareness. Either way, you are the one with no place to claim innocence.

Below are some links to some sites pertaining to New Jersey. You can either click on them and gain some knowledge, or you can keep on name calling and show your lack of real awareness of what is going on under your nose.

Your lack of seeing how it is exactly like typhoid Mary is knowing neither the typhoid Mary story nor the Pyrus problem. To keep planting these in the face of a growing problem is to deny reality. Denying reality is the hallmark of either a fool or a willing accomplice to the problem. Take your pick.

http://www.njisst.org/documents/DoNotPlantList.pdf
http://www.npsnj.org/PDFs/articles/invasive_plant_list.pdf
http://www.invasive.org/browse/subinfo.cfm?sub=10957#maps
http://www.fohvos.org/pdfs/factsheets/Pyrus calleryana_Invasive Plants Fact Sheet.pdf


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Settle down. I think it sounds like DJ is not going to be planting more after wearing out his shoulder luggin around the wood of the broken trees. His points about them being orderly and having good fall color (in places with long soft falls) is on also. The man critically pointed out the flower odor and all, he is realistic.

FWIW in my yard it seems the pears are not reseeding but five miles away in the woodline by my kid's daycare a couple have popped up. If I recall it has something to do with cultivar mix or if anyone ever lets the rootstock flower on theirs within so many miles or something.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I have also wondered why it seems that pears grow in a more invasive manner some places but not others. I can think of a few areas whose residents have pears in their lawns and their drainage ways along heavily traveled 2/4 lane roads are just exploding with pears (and sycamores, a native species) while in other areas (my neighborhood/general area) where it seems pears are in every other yard, the drainage ways are completely devoid of pear trees.

Any insight on this phenomenon?


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

invasiveness in bradford pear may have to do with how many fruit eating birds there are in your area......the seed may need to pass through the gut of a bird in order to germinate....this is called scarification............just a hypothesis


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

invasiveness in bradford pear may have to do with how many fruit eating birds there are in your area......the seed may need to pass through the gut of a bird in order to germinate....this is called scarification............just a hypothesis


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

That is a thought though the areas I am speaking of are within 20 miles or less of each other and we have many species of fruit eating bird in both.

Perhaps the soil in the effected drsinage areas is more fertile or perhaps just all around a more agreeable locale for a pear stand. Though I had thought that pears weren't the most picky trees.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Ornamental pear trees are definitely invasive in the Kansas City metro area, so much so that most nurseries have stopped selling them. They line our street, having been planted by the developer ten years ago, and they're hideous.I pull hundreds out of the flower beds each year.

I'm not sure which cultivar we have, but they are fastigiate and a very unattractive, and their bloom time is so short I'd say they're ugly all year round. They were hit with fireblight this past spring, but not enough to kill them, which is too bad. I'd love to get them out of here so I can plant a decent tree.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Ornamental pear trees are definitely invasive in the Kansas City metro area, so much so that most nurseries have stopped selling them. They line our street, having been planted by the developer ten years ago, and they're hideous.I pull hundreds out of the flower beds each year.

I'm not sure which cultivar we have, but they are fastigiate and a very unattractive, and their bloom time is so short I'd say they're ugly all year round. They were hit with fireblight this past spring, but not enough to kill them, which is too bad. I'd love to get them out of here so I can plant a decent tree.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

New to the forum. Many interesting posts, both pro and con, I'm learning from both. My question: what are good alternatives to the flowering pear type trees with similar characteristics i.e. fast growers, deep rooted, long lived, good shade?


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Thank You Toronado I will not replant orni pear trees.
And I apologize to Dz for my rude behavior to him (her?). I was overly defensive (Jersey thing) And yes I do recognize the invasive nature of Ornamental pears. They should be banned. Now how about a nice game of chess...


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

New Poster here. In central Ohio. Trying to help a friend do some landscaping and thought the cleveland pear sounded like a good choice for her. We have 4 in our 5 acre yard in the middle of our 120 acre farm. I knew when I planted these trees that the Bradford was a troublesome tree so I planted the Cleveland which was purported not to have these problems. These trees have been in our yard for over thirty years. Two of them are on the west side of our house and are exposed to our worst winter winds each has lost one large branch in the last year. The ones on the east side are more protected and have suffered no damage. It was interesting reading the commentary but I can only speak from my experience of my own trees. One they are still going strong after 30 years, Two I have never noticed any strong smell, Three we have never had them seed anywhere on our farm. Love their upright growth, profusion of flowers and outstanding fall colors.

Never did hear anyone offer a substitute tree


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Do your good deed back for North America and come get all them volunteer CleBrads from along the north side of the new MO370 ramp to Salt River. Unlike some those have decent fall color lol.

I am kidding more or less. Well at least about any moral obligation. I have not removed the CleBrad the previous owners left me although the wind last year nearly did.

Far as substitutes go yellow wood (which breaks apart also), Hornbeam, some serviceberries. Crabapples probably get planted in similar sights as well but despite owning one, I have doubts.

Much like the Kudzu or bamboo someone may be planting on the property next to you, I can not deny the Bradford does grow and does flower. My neighbor got fifteen and about twenty years out of two of his.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Had a Bradford, smack in the middle of the front yard. Planted it twenty years ago when we first bought our house. We loved the quick growth, waxy green leaves, spring flowers and bright fall color. It lasted 8 years and poof, split in half. Replaced it with an Acer Rubrum, October Glory. No showy flowers but great fall color. Wish I would have known about the brittle pears before I first planted, wouldn't have wasted 8 growing seasons on the pear. Keep in mind if planting callery's they will break your heart, eventually.
mark


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I still am a bigger fan of maples/oaks/hickory/ash but this time of the year makes a strong case for pears. While my white Ashs' are just loosing their final leaves for the season, the oaks are almost completely brown and mars are practically barren the pears still have all of their foliage. That and the orange/yellow/maroon/fire engine red leaves are quite beautiful to boot!


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I have three beautiful pear trees in the front of my house and have a story to tell about their aroma but will get to my question first. I have what I thought was a pear tree in my back yard. It's looks like the ones in the front but does not flower in spring or change color in fall. The leaves remain green well into winter then suddenly fall. Does anyone know what it might be.

For those who have the time/interest, here is my story. My five year old granddaughter and I were sitting on the curb one day, just enjoying the nice weather. I noticed her taking in slow deep breaths and looking at me in a way I've never seen before. She then asked me in her angelic voice, "Gramma, what is that smell"? I knew she was talking about the flowers from the tree and also realized what the strange look was about, but said, what smell. She then said in her sweet, angelic, innocent way, "Gramma, did you fart"?


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

I just compared a leaf from the one in question to the others I have and it's the same shape, just a little smaller.

I knew nothing about these trees when I planted them except that they were pretty and didn't grow to large. Now that I've read this thread am in fear the one in my back yard might fall and damage a koi pond I have. There is a large wooded area about 40 ft west of this tree. Will this help keep the tree from falling over? I would like to remove them all but don't currently have the funds.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

"I have what I thought was a pear tree in my back yard. It's looks like the ones in the front but does not flower in spring or change color in fall. The leaves remain green well into winter then suddenly fall. Does anyone know what it might be."

It is quite possible an offspring of your Bradford/Clevelands. Just them having kids and displacing natives. Consider yourself lucky if it has no thorns.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Comparing these two trees is like asking for the difference between death by firing squad or death by lethal injection.


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RE: Cleveland vs. Bradford Pear?

Thanks for your reply. I'm going to remove the one in question today, weather permitting. The two in the front are a different story,,,, to big for us to do by ourselves and don't have replacements. So sad to have to get rid of them,,,,they are so pretty.


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