And in 15-25 years, your trees will fall apart. Bradford will be first one to fall apart then Cleveland. Not really much of pros except for fast growth and decent fall color. Just short lived is the biggest con.

Bradfor Pear flowers smell of a mixture of rotten fish and vomit
Cleveland Pear flowers smell of a mixture of vomit and rotten fish

Resin

From the Frederick Co., MD. Master Gardener Program
..."the Bradford very susceptible to wind and ice damage - in fact, it's rare to see an old planting that doesn't have at least one tree missing a substantial chunk of its limbs and trunk. The angle of the Bradford's branches is generally too narrow, and as the tightly-crowded branches grow in girth, the tree begins to push itself apart. At the first strong wind or heavy ice storm, the tree self-destructs."

Same can be said for the Clevelands.

All made with good reason, and made by numerous people, not just one or two. They really are not good trees. Take a look through other threads too, and you'll see just how much we all like good trees.

Resin

Thank you so much 'sue141452' that is just the kind of response I was hoping to receive. I already knew their suseptibility to ice damamge due to the fact my parents have had a Bradford for 25 years. Their's has seen it's fair share of breakage, however it's not the end all to end all. They are still a nice shaped tree with beautiful spring blooms and gorgeous fall color. So if in 15, 20, or even 25 years I have to tear them down so be it. Not all trees are created equal and like humans some have a shorter life span. It doesn't make them any less of a tree. I just wanted to know how the two differ, if at all.

Also thanks 'jm30' for some useful tips on pruning to help extend the lifetime of their canopy.

As for the above mentioned trolls, you people are bitter and need to lighten up a little, it's only a tree. It's not like I poured my whole life savings into them. Gee I was just asking some basic "tree 101" questions. Next time I will just use wikipedia and save myself from the barrage of negative opinions.

Bradfords/Clevelands are very invasive (they damage the environment), very weak wooded (they commonly fall apart at a fairly early age), generally short lived (because they fall apart), smell bad when in bloom, and way too common (people who don't know better plant them way too frequently).

He said that of all of the thousands of plants he introduced by one way or another, the Bradford Pear was the one he regretted the most. Not because of the the weaknesses of the tree itself, but because of what WE (he pointed to all of us, lol) had done to it. He never dreamed it would be used to line streets, replace long-lived trees in urban environments, and become the most over-used tree in recent memory.

Rather, it should have been used as an occasional back-yard ornamental specimen, where the spring flowers and fall color would be enjoyed for a few years. When the tree collapsed, it could be replaced by another one.

I'll bet he cringed as he traveled around the country.

livelsberger (and suel41452, for that matter)- You really did ask for pros and cons. The Pros gave you their cons and you call them trolls?

tj

Buyer's remorse makes some folk act funny.

BTW, most tree experts (e.g. Dirr, Harris, McPherson) must be trolls too because they say essentially the same thing as others upthread.

Its a conspiracy!!! Conspiracy!!!

Dan

It's a tree, yes. It is also a people-killer, car-crusher, and home-destroyer.

Let the buyer beware! And make sure you have plenty of insurance to cover for the problems that they will cause. Though you may find it difficult to get insurance cover for a preventable known hazard.

Resin

Your reaction seems hostile and inappropriate. Maybe you don't like the honest answers you got, but that doesn't warrant rude comments towards people that are just trying to help.

There may be other opinions out there, but every comment above is based in fact and was provided for your benefit.

...if I had known it was such a touchy subject I would have never asked what the diff. was between the two Pears. ... the smart ass comments and over the top scenarios the entire thread...

snork

Nothing was touchy until YOU started the widdle namie-name calling. So you don't like the answers knowledgeable people give you. As you say, get over it. Next time you ask a question in public, before you get a reply let the person know you'll resent the answer - it'll save everyone a lot of time.

Dan

Here's my rebuttal to their cons:

1. The "horrible smell" - Unless one has the hypersensitivity of an Edgar Allan Poe character, a person would have to stick their nose right on the blooms to smell them at all.

2. The short life span - dwarf flowering ornamental fruit trees typically live 10-20 years, I've never read a negative rant on them!

3. People-killer, car-crusher, and home-destroyer? Storm damage? Other trees get storm damage & keel over, too. Pine trees have shallow roots and often the whole tree falls over - but I don't recall rants about pine trees! Lots of huge trees get uprooted in bad storms & hurricanes and kill people - including oaks! Towering trees often get hit by lightning, knocking off huge limbs and even splitting in half! People & livestock can be killed by lightning under a huge tree! Wildfires are fed by trees, destroying homes, people, wildlife! So by that absurd logic, no one should plant ANY tree!

Actually, the REAL hidden agenda for slamming these pear trees is that they consider them an extremely invasive plant. They might make some converts to their cause if they write diplomatic & tactful posts (if indeed they know how, which I doubt!) on that subject.

You bring up some interesting points. The bad smell does seem to vary, from my experience, from place to place or from time to time. That's one reason I didn't make much of that point. In most of my experiences, like you mentioned, you have to be right up next to the tree to notice much of a smell. I have experienced cases though, where the smell was highly annoying at a distance of at least a couple of hundred feet. I'm unsure about what made the difference, but it was definitely the Bradford Pears causing the unpleasant odor.

While dwarf fruit trees do tend to have shorter lives, comparing those with callery pears is not reasonable. Callery pears are planted as ornamentals and are often expected to last many years. If homeowners realized they would last such a short time, they obviously wouldn't choose, in most cases, to plant them. Dwarf fruit trees are grown mostly for the fruit and in particular situations where some decrease in life-expectancy is worth the benefits of very limited size and quick production.

I think your comparison of callery pears to other trees is way off base. I do see some types of pines fail frequently (mainly with the borer problem we have around here), and so wouldn't suggest planting them near a home. Your comparison with trees in general is just ridiculous. Most trees are relatively safe. Bradfords do cause an extremely disproportionate amount of damage.

The invasive issue is important, but I haven't noticed it driving the conversation at all. There are much worse treats out there that receive fewer negative comments. So, your argument is illogical and can easily be discounted. Maybe you could say that a combination of factors leads to callery pear's bad rep.

I wonder how familiar you really are with these trees.

It is a mystery why they continue to be sold. Perhaps we need some 'lemon tree laws' ;o) .

Dan

During lunch, I was thinking about why these trees do elicit as much of a negative reaction as they do. I think it's a combination of two things. They are way way way overused, and, as Rhizo said so well, they represent so many lost opportunities for much better solutions.

It's not surprising that people act like the OP when they find out they've been had. Nobody likes to have that happen and to learn their tree is not the prized specimen they were thinking it was.

How can something so inferior and weak be so invasive and dominating over the tougher native plants?

BTW, one of these was on my property when I bought it. I'll probably never plant one, I'm not cutting mine down though, or parking under it on windy, snowy, or sunny days.

I would think if you look you can do better.

"Ah, I see the self-appointed "pear police" have found a new target. Don't worry livelsberger, you're just the latest of a LONG line of recipients of their venomnous posts. Do a search on "Bradford pear" on this forum if you want to see a litany of equally cruel remarks. These trolls must enjoy creating enemies, and I'm sure most people don't comprehend such unwarranted nastiness. I'd love to know how many people go out & plant more pears out of spite!!"

I read this post over a year ago and revisited it several times before carefully selecting the perfect tree for my yard. I looked at all the pros and cons to planting a Cleveland Select Pear (which is an improvement on the Bradford Pear and not the same as the Bradford Pear). I was really taken aback by all the negativity and exaggeration on this forum about Cleveland Select Pear trees. They are not widely planted in my area, so this tree is unique to my neighborhood. I researched many of the suggestions on this forum about alternatives and they just didn't fit the bill for my soil, location and what I wanted. Hence why it took so long before purchasing the right tree. I planted 12 trees this past Spring, Summer and Fall... all various evergreens except for one and I saved that one for last because I wanted to check out the latest studies. Some of the reasons I chose to plant a Cleveland Select Pear tree are because it is NOT on the Invasive Alien Plant Species list in my state and it matched perfectly with what I needed. After much research, this new cultivar does not have all of the problems that some of the scathing members on here attest. They are thinking of the Bradford Pear and not the Cleveland Select. So in a way, I felt motivated to specifically plant the Cleveland Select Pear just by the sheer uncalled for negativity that some of the members on this board have for this tree. I have seen various trees fall and break due to storms and age because that is what trees do. So Sue wanted to how many people have done spite planting due to the "Pear Police" -well count me in because their over the top comments encouraged me to find out the real truth about this tree and plant it!

There's practically nothing about the Cleveland that's any better than the Bradford. They are different cultivars, but any benefits of Cleveland are largely exaggerated.

So far as planting it in spite, it's kind of like a small child insisting on touching the glowing hot stove eye. You can tell them not to do it, but sometimes they just have to learn for themselves, and some take longer to learn than others. That doesn't mean it's wrong to warn them though.

While I don't think I would go around chopping the clones down there is no need to go planting more.

I have a thread with some links on it someplace. Apparently by the time they hybridize with each other or other trees the wild ones have thorns lol

But inevitably my tree just split in half after a particularly windy week following an extremely dry summer. So I started researching and found this forum, and my obvious question is this: do any of you super-critical supposed tree experts have any suggestions for varieties that share the good qualities of pears (spring flowers plus great shape and density plus brilliant fall colors) without their weaknesses? The more I look around at other varieties this fall the more I realize how much I'll miss my pear.

And a side question: I have no idea whether mine was a Bradford or Cleveland. Is there any way to definitively tell by looking at the leaves or fruit? (If it was a Bradford and I don't find a promising enough replacement by spring I may try Cleveland. If it was Cleveland I'll probably just give up on the pears.)

Thank you in advance,
Chris

==>> you insult us.. then ask for help ..

not in my world

ken

pd: and to top it all off.. your beloved tree broke.. JUST AS WE SUGGESTED IT WOULD ... whats that all about ...

pps: cleveland select.. is a cultivar SELECTED to be a better BP.. but its still a bradford pear.. that stinks to high heaven in bloom.. has poor branching.. and breaks when it darn well feels like it ... only a self-important fool would consider planting another one ...

Dude, perhaps you didn't read my entire post but "I told you so" doesn't make a lot of sense as the tree was already there when I moved in years ago. I didn't even know what kind it was till it started falling apart recently and I looked into it, years after I fell in love with it. And I've never been to this forum before TODAY.

But when you're right, you're right. I should have listened.

Anyway, sarcasm aside you ARE right that I was wrong to insult and I apologize. It's just hard to read this entire thread as I did and not build up some resentment to the haters who seemed to take pleasure in effectively calling this guy an idiot while providing no actual help. My insult was directed at them, not all users of this site. If you were not one of them you have no reason to take offense.

And on the topic of not taking offense, you'll be happy to know I take none to your attempted insult since it is again completely nonsensical to call someone a name for doing the very thing they are asking for help to avoid doing. (Which you, of course, are refusing to provide. That'll learn me!)

If any less touchy site regulars have suggestions I would still be grateful.

Thanks,
Chris

I appreaciate the idea but I don't quite have the the space for that. Unfortunately with my small yard it kinda "all in", which I guess is making it that much harder to lose my great tree only to then learn that the variety I enjoyed so much has a fatal flaw.

But thank you.

You used multiple insults scattered through your post claiming those warning against these trees were "tree Nazis". You said that you just loved your tree and that it was so wonderful. Then you turn around and admit that "the smell wasn't great" and that your "tree just split in half" (Imagine that!).

Ken just pointed out the rather perplexing irony in your argument, and you seem to take it personally. What a riot!

Ditto what Ken said.

Really I am sorta moderate. I even 'gasp' own a Bradford/Cleveland. My plan is wait for it to split apart then plant a less invasive tree which will get its fall color before the leaves freeze off.

There are tree forms of serviceberry which seem to enjoy full sun. For sites with some shade regular Cornus florida dogwoods or Cornus kousa if your area Cornus floridas are having a rough time. I have a slight preference for Cornus florida.

Wanna talk about something non exciting like how bailing out Chrysler three decades ago was a good idea but the GM bailout was wrong?

I acknowledged I should not have been insulting and apologized. But if you'd like to point it out and call me a meanie a third time, go for it. But first you should read all the responses to the original question of this thread which were the cause of my hostility, however misplaced and self-defeating.

Do you only love things that are perfect? Do you instantly stop loving them and wipe past love from memory when they die? If like me you answer no then I'm not sure what irony you're referring to. If you answer yes then I'm afraid we'll probably never see eye to eye.

Thanks for reading. Goodnight.

Now my natural conversational pattern is a bit abrasive.

Perhaps deregulation of the Savings & Loan industry in the 80's would be a more timely topic during the waning weeks of this election cycle. That can't stir up any hard feelings ;)

Bradford pears are pretty when in bloom, but there are good replacements. Try an apple serviceberry (Amelanchier x grandiflora), maybe a carolina silverbell. Even domestic apple trees are quite pretty when in bloom.

Everybody's entitled to their opinions; you can't hardly say ANYTHING these days without "offending" SOMEBODY.

I used to like these trees, but they just rub me the wrong way now.

They are an insurance nightmare waiting to happen. I wonder how many cars will be damaged before they take them all out and plant something else.

Crape myrtle is a much better choice. They could have their pick of bloom color and final size. I wonder that they didn't plant them.

A few like mine are waiting and still green. Eventually a good frost will come and do away with their leaves leaving the only interest their terrible branching structure.

Our native dogwood is Cornus florida. Cornus kousa is Asian import which is recommended in some places.

mostly.. so that if you check the box below where you type .. the replies will come to your email ... so you will know when someone answers ..

and second.. a couple pix of your yard.. will get you much more specific ideas ...

i have a few thoughts.. and will await your new post ... dont be shy .. we like to help ...

my thoughts will revolve around succession of flowering ...

ken

An exciting development in flowering pear trees ��" Cleveland Pears are a great improvement over Bradford Pears and Aristocrat Pears. You get that perfect, symmetrical oval shape in a much hardier, stronger tree.

The Cleveland Pear hybrid resists damage from extreme snow, ice and wind.

Quickly grows to 30-40 ft. tall...an ideal size for small and medium sized yards.

They are very pest resistant as well, so there’s never any maintenance.

In the fall, the leaves turn from a deep summer green to a dark scarlet red.

If you’ve always wanted a flowering pear for your lawn and landscape, the Cleveland Pear is by far the best variety.

Yes, unfortunately, some nurserymen do sometimes recommend COMPLETELY HORRID stuff. It's hard to know if they are really that unfamiliar with the product they are selling or if they just don't care and are trying to push their junk out to make a buck.

As can be confirmed by countless reliable sources, Cleveland Pears have all the problems that Bradfords do. Some negatives may be SLIGHTLY less than for Bradfords, but trash is trash! They are just as invasive in most of their possible growing range, in this country. They still stink horribly. They may not be quite as bad to break apart, but they still do. And, they still die at an early age. I would no sooner plant a Cleveland pear than I would a Bradford, and I wouldn't think of planting either.

If I were you, I'd look for a better nurseryman.

Oh Maggie, this was a salesman making money in tough times :(

Do not believe everything any salesman tells you.

Look, I can legitimately tell you your new Cleveland will probably last a decade or so and if invasiveness does not bother you then go for it. BUT you lose the right to complain if I plant bamboo on your property line or about any derelict cars and busses your neighbors have.

Ug, salesmen.

How about this scenario. The salesman Maggie worked with just happened to like pears and maybe even has them at his home. What if not everyone hated pears with the same amount of gusto you happen posses? Difference of opinion are what I believe make life interesting and some of us that have this belief view opposing thoughts as a chance to see things from a new/different view. This alternate position can lend itself to edification on one but hopefull both parts which is unbelievably satisfying to speak lay. heres one that might as well be grouped with other fantastic tales like Tron/Alice in wonderland or works from Homer such as Iliad/Odyssey....... Maggie told her sales associate that she wanted a quick growing tree that wasn't that picky, didnt require much extra care, was medium sized, was a mostly pest resistant tree and not only was pretty in spring during bloom (unfortunately i dont believe it's possible to be sarcastically factual in relation to that awful smell these trees produce when flowering!) but also beautiful fall aesthetics to behold that IMO and area; can hang with all but the very, very best. I would say a pear would fit that bill quite nicely and again, if this were the what transpired that day, one might be compelled to say her salesperson knocked it out of the park!

I have one (Cleveland I believe) in my front yard that's at least as old as my house, 23. It doesn't have one injury from breakage. I live in St.Louis btw, where any and all weather phenomena can and most likely will happen. Freezing rain, check. Snow, yep! Sleet, yes. Tornadoes... were in the ally. Powerful spring thunderstorms that not only come with the chance of destructive wind but also lightening that could split even the mightiest of Oak. Am I planning on cutting it down, yes. But for reasons I find cause to do so, nothing that has been listed earlier in this thread. Chiefly, I plan to be at this home for the long haul and pears simply do not get large enough to have the impact I invision a tree in my front yard to possess. Also my pear received little to no shape pruning throughout its life. Because of this I had no choice but to trim it in a way where I just don't like the way it looks now. I had to remove many of the lowest/oldest/most substantial branches. Even if I did allow it the years it would take to hopefully regrow, I'm not confident it would ever return to a form that I would be satisfied with. It's a damn fine tree that 99/100 homeowners would be tickled to have in their yard. There is no imminent danger of structural calamity even though it wasn't cared for properly. I would bet it'd be good as it sits right now for at least another 15 years, if some simple reinforcements were made to the trunk/s (i.e. I-bolts with SS wire between them stabilizing trunks growing from only the most acute of crotches) likely would live 30 or more years with only minimal upkeep.

So yes, pears most certainly have some negative aspects but I think everyone who visits this site would be able to glean even more from GW if folks would ask a few questions in an attempt to actually see if a pear was a good/the smart choice. If these actions did nothing but reduce the frequency of threads like this that would be progress. Over and over again it's the same hostile comments which are somewhat humorous because we're talking about a tree, unproductive suggestions and general morale deflating occur then ill consider the time this took a worthwhile effort.

" 'Bradford' - One of the most common and recognizable ornamental trees in the American landscape, this early-flowering tree is popular for its dense branching and broadly pyramidal habit to 50' tall and 40' wide. It grows quickly as a young tree and offers good resistance to fireblight. However, this tree has a genetic predisposition to form tight branch crotch angles that are points of weakness. Thus, unless pruned the tree will eventually split under its weight due to high winds, storms, ice, snowload, etc. It is therefore strongly recommended that other cultivars be utilized. Regardless of cultivar, Pyrus calleryana is wholly overused in the landscape, leading to monotony and boredom. The rigid habit of the plant also makes the species appear out-of-place in most situations. Other plant choices should generally be investigated when P. calleryana is called for."

" 'Glen's Form' (Chanticleer®, also known as 'Select', 'Cleveland Select', 'Stone Hill' and 'Stonehill') - Considered perhaps the finest selection for contemporary use, this plant assumes an upright, pyramidal habit to 30' tall and 15' wide. It is much narrower than 'Bradford', and also is longer-lived and perhaps hardier. It shows good fireblight resistance and attractive red-purple fall color."

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: There are SO MANY BETTER ALTERNATIVES than Bradford, Cleveland, Chanticleer, whatever, pears. Why waste a valuable resource (land/space) with these things?

Plant a serviceberry, a dogwood, a crabapple, a redbud, a yellowwood, a buckeye, a hawthorn (there's a good alternative!), a magnolia, ANYTHING BUT CALLERY PEAR!!!!!

We are not saying that all salesmen are crooks, but it seems there are quite a few that are only out to get money. (I definitely appreciate honest, helpful sales persons, which are a golden find. There are plenty out there, though).

It helps when a person making a recommendation is qualified in their field - Most of the regulars on this forum grow trees as a hobby, for business, whatever. With years of experience with trees, you'd think recommendations made would be, for the most part, accurate.

Personally,,,I think they are beautiful "looking" in Spring, but they STINK! I hate the way they smell.
They were planted all over campus when I was attending college and EVERY spring that god-awful smell permeated the entire campus, even into the classrooms!. It literally made me sick.

I would plant a fruiting pear (has the same flowers) and produces fruit you can eat and has a stronger trunk and branches. In fact, I did.

I agree with the Crabapple tree as a replacement. Gorgeous pink and red flowers in spring - doesn't self-replicate all over the countryside and smells so sweet and lovely.

Clevelands and Bradfords are invading the countryside here in central Oklahoma. They are escaping the bounds of people's well-roomed, spit-spot, manicured yards and invading every neighboring bare tract of land. and SPREADING!

The blooms are definitely pretty to SEE in spring, but invasive, invasive, invasive.....and the flowers STINK. (vomit and rotten fish - that is EXACTLY how they smell to me too)

We have to be responsible gardeners, just like we have to be responsible parents. Just because candy and ice cream is pretty and tasty and your kids want to eat at McDonald's every day, doesn't mean we should allow it. They become malnourished and yet they get FAT!!! and that is a killer. If we care about their health and their futures, we have to take the responsibility to see that they eat healthy foods and don't let them eat all that crap all the time.

SO it is with us as gardeners. We have to be responsible and caring about our environment and the ecosystems around us or it will be our own doom.

This was such a lively topic. Loved reading it. :)

~Annie
a tree-hugger