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jinxmom

What is wrong with this tree?

jinxmom
10 years ago

Live in SE Arizona. Not sure what kind of tree; but it is not looking well.

Comments (21)

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    Since the growth is now aberrant maybe the tree was exposed to a hormone herbicide.

  • jinxmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Another picture. Don't believe it got any herbicide.

  • brandon7 TN_zone7
    10 years ago

    I'd be willing to bet that if you didn't accidentally spray it, someone else probably did spray it (maybe on a windy day, maybe at night when they thought you wouldn't see them). Do you ever use RoundUp, etc?

  • jean001a
    10 years ago

    Likely Roundup or other glyphosate containing product was sprayed last year to "clean up the place."
    - Tree got sub lethal dose.
    - Sent the glyphosate to the roots.
    - Then, this spring, the glyphosate was re-mobilized and sent to the top of the tree.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    10 years ago

    ????

    brandon suggest RU ... and jean confirms RU.. but OP gave no history of RU ...

    why the big stakes???

    is this a recent transplant.. if so.. explain when ... how planted... etc.. amendments.. watering protocol ... and a pic of the whole.. holding your phone upright ...

    and talk with your nursery ... perhaps they hit it with RU ... since everyone is fixated on RU .. lol ...

    if you have a warranty.. i suggest you also talk to them about replacement ...

    i dont mind jeans RU suggestion.. but just how bad a spray job does one have to do.. to significantly coat a tree canopy AT HEIGHT ...

    RU would have no impact on the bark ... [i suppose depending on tree ID.. which we dont have] .... and it does not migrate thru the soil to be sucked up by the roots ... and hitting an errant leaf or two with properly diluted RU is not a significant exposure ...

    unless we have some neighbor with a 400 psi sprayer.. bombing his own 'lawn' .... lol... with a crop duster .... i jsut cant contemplate how this happens..

    i will bet my shiny nickle on recent transplant ... and improper planting and/or aftercare ...

    more facts please

    ken

  • saccharum
    10 years ago

    That particular, peculiar pattern of dieback and clumpy epicormic sprouting is totally typical for herbicide damage -and it makes sense that some amount of herbicide would have been used on a xeriscaped landscape like that, to keep it "clean" of weeds. It could be a really bad case of glyphosate spray drift, but I think it's more likely to be from a chemical that's active in the soil, like 2,4-D or imazapyr.

    Ken, I know it seems like a rush to judgement, but the pattern shown in the pictures is pretty diagnostic. When I run into these symptoms in the field and the owner/manager is admant that no herbicides have been used, a little investigation almost always finds that they have been - often it's something used by their landscaper, in a lawn care product, or by a neighbor being overly enthusiastic with the sprayer, etc.

  • salicaceae
    10 years ago

    I agree that it is likely herbicide damage, but there is a remote possibility that it could be due to a phytoplasma or virus. What type of tree is it?

  • jinxmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks all. I don't know what kind of tree it is. It was new last year. Roundup was used in parts of the yard. Next question. Can it recover?

  • Huggorm
    10 years ago

    It might survive, but it will never get a nice and healthy shape again. Better not use poison in your garden.

  • saccharum
    10 years ago

    If that did result from glyphosate damage, then there is some slim chance that it might recover. I've seen some trees that got blasted by herbicides gradually recover and put out normal growth over the course of multiple years. The fact that this one was recently planted and is in a harsh environment like AZ might further reduce its chances, though.

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    Tree is probably a Fraxinus.

  • brandon7 TN_zone7
    10 years ago

    "It might survive, but it will never get a nice and healthy shape again."

    Not true! IF it survives, the tree could very well regain a pretty and natural looking form. It may not survive, but, if it does, the damage will be more of a setback than a long-term problem. I have seen trees in very similar conditions; some made it and are doing just fine, some died.

    "Better not use poison in your garden."

    Used PROPERLY, chemicals such as RoundUp are extremely safe and can be highly useful in creating and maintaining a nice landscape.

    There are a few different ways that glyphosate (RoundUp) could cause damage, such as that seen in the OP's photo. Mixing the chemical too heavily can result in targeted plant roots spitting the excess out into surrounding soil and being taken up by tree roots in close proximity to the target plant roots. Wind drift from high pressure spray (which creates smaller drops that blow away more freely) could be at fault. Chemical entering wounds or green bark is another possibility.

  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    10 years ago

    I've seen any number of trees recover from herbicide damage. Wind drift is the number one culprit in causing the problem.

    Do what you can to keep the tree healthy (primarily ensure that it gets enough water) and you may well be surprised.

    Good luck!

    S

  • jinxmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for a the replies. We'll give it another year to try recovering.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    10 years ago

    i understand what it looks like ...

    but we did not take time to rule out other options..

    if we all jump on one train ... and a few hours later.. we realize that the train is the wrong one.. we all lose ...

    if this was a poorly dug.. improperly planted ball and burlap tree.. with 99% of its roots cut off.. dont you think it might have some problems... perhaps ...some inclination to RU damage.. that an otherwise healthy tree would not ...

    i spray hundreds of gallons of RU a year ... and in a lot of wind.. since i know how to do it ... i have NEVER impacted a tree like this .... i mean really.. you would need to coat about 60% of the canopy to do such damage to the whole .... and i ask.. how does one do that ...

    i can not.. in my life .. conceptualize.. how bad this application could have been.. TO IMPACT WHAT LOOKS LIKE A 6 FOOT TALL TREE ...

    i mean.. we are talking an aerial ultra high dose ...

    spraying some rocks at toe level.. is not usually going to impact a tree like this ...

    IMHO ... there is way more to this story .. than we understand at this point... and i dont understand.. why we want to skip the total background facts.. based simply on a couple pix of what it looks like ...

    playing devils advocate here ... i agree with what it LOOKS like ... i just cant conceptualize how it happened .... [can we rule out neighbor assault?]

    BTW .. this is the front of your house.. it will NOT recover soon enough ..... replace it ... think about what it says about your castle .... if it were 3 acres out back.. on your 5 acres.. i would say.. lets watch it.. and see what happens .... but as it stands now.. it looks like you dont care about the front of your house.. and what you present to the neighbors ...

    your choice.. good luck

    ken

  • cadillactaste
    10 years ago

    In AZ they flood irrigate...if round up was used...and poster has his lawn irrigated soon after...could that bring more issues with the RU? Remember being out that way last year when the water was receding from flood irrigation. Thinking it would delute it...but was curious if that to could have done something...

    Poster may not choose to flood irrigate...but that popped into my head...just reaching deep...in unfamiliar territory.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    10 years ago

    Just to continue with the group think...

    If I recall there are warnings about round up vaporizing if sprayed when above ninety degrees. I bet it really vaporizes when sprayed onto hot rocks at 110 degrees.

  • saccharum
    10 years ago

    I was thinking the same thing, toronado, but I wasn't sure I wanted to risk any more of Ken's censure by bringing it up. :) Glyphosate can volatilize and drift upwards when sprayed in hot weather, I've seen at least one clear case of that before.

  • jinxmom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Sounds like RU might well be the problem. It was used to keep down weeds in the rocks. And Lord knows it is hot here! I think the tree will soon be replaced. Will consider spraying on cooler days ( if we get any). :-)

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    10 years ago

    Lets see, I have been married x years so it has been x years and a day since I have been to Vegas and Phoenix... Is SE Arizona the same hot and dry as Phoenix where there is/was that GREAT desert botanical garden?

    I am trying to take some watering and care pressure off jinxmom by thinking of broadleafs that live there near sea level with minimal watering. Water being scarce and expensive in the SW.

    I remember cottonwoods in Colorado and thinking I remembered them at Red Rock (Vegas & Denver) where elevation made it cooler.

    Is this right? That botanical garden had more and tall cacti than I thought existed! So there are some choices at least. I think if the tree in question did not leaf out VERY WELL in the spring even I would be done with it.

  • brandon7 TN_zone7
    10 years ago

    "if this was a poorly dug.. improperly planted ball and burlap tree.. with 99% of its roots cut off.. dont you think it might have some problems"

    It is VERY unlikely that this would explain the phenomenon in the picture. While the damage could be caused by something else, I'd say that the chances of it being herbicide damage is greater than 95%. I see nothing wrong with keeping an open mind on the topic though.

    "i mean.. we are talking an aerial ultra high dose..."

    Ken, that's just not so. RoundUp, especially if mixed a little heavily, can cause this kind of thing with just a sudden gust of wind. IF RoundUp is mixed per label, applied in calm-weather conditions with reasonable care, and sprayed under low pressure, it's generally safe...but change any of those variables just a little and damage, similar to that shown above, can happen before you know it.

    "If I recall there are warnings about round up vaporizing if sprayed when above ninety degrees."

    Such warnings are largely unfounded. Glyphosate has a very low volatility. IF we were talking about some other chemical (no other chemical application has been mentioned by the OP), things might be different. But, with RoundUp (at least with "normal"/glyphosate RoundUp), vaporization shouldn't be an issue.

    "Will consider spraying on cooler days..."

    RoundUp may be more effective when applied in more moderate temperatures, but it probably won't be any safer. Now, you might well be better off to choose less windy days.