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| I found 2 largish square pots on sale at Home Depot yesterday. They are the fiberglass/stone pots w/o holes. Size is probably 24 inces deep by 18-24 inches wide. They were so pretty I just had to buy them. LOL
I want to put them in the rear of my home on either side of the garage. The area is West facing, so it gets great morning sun. Can anyone suggest a nice not too tall evergreen that would be pretty hardy and also disease/bug resistant? Should I drill a few holes in the pots? Should I put "peanuts" or rocks in the bottom? I don't want them to topple over in the winter winds. Also, can I use regular garden dirt or do I need a version of Al's Potting Mix ? IF I nedd Al's what version for evergreens? Should I bring them into the garage for the winter or leave them out? I do have a covered porch I could put them on, but I would prefer to leave them out by the garage. I'm in the Pittsburgh, PA area - I think I'm Zone 5 or 6 Thanks in advance for responses! |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 11, 12 at 11:28
| I use regular garden dirt or do I need a version of Al's Potting Mix ? ==>>> come on.. words mean things.. DIRT is what is all over you .. after you play in SOIL ... and that is mother earth .. and she doesnt belong in pots ... pots are filled with MEDIA ... so basically.. you answered your own question.. when you asked about al's mix ... and yes.. you need something like that ... MAYBE??? because there is one more word here.. that really doenst mean anything.. EVERGREEN ... there are conifers ... perennials.. shrubs.. all kinds of things that are 'evergreen' ... but until you define what you want ... you can not define the media.. nor the winter storage problems... and yes .. your pots will need drainage.. in fact.. that is the whole point of al's or any other media in a pot.. its the drainage.. and you will defeat it all.. if your pots dont drain ... soooooo .. lets start by narrowing down what type of plant you are thinking about ... because.. this being the tree forum.. there aren't a lot of evergreen trees that i can think of for z6 .... other than conifers, of course ... and they post a lot of pix over in that forum .... finally .. you said: The area is West facing, so it gets great morning sun. ===>>>> i am not sure.. but the sun rises in the east in MI ... whats the deal with PA?? ... lol .. LINK BELOW THAT MIGHT BE ALONG THE LINES THAT YOU ARE THINKING ... oops.. hate when i forget to take off caps ... lol .. good luck ken
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Here is a link that might be useful: link
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| In that climate you're going to need something very hardy for it to come through in a pot - especially if the bottom is not going to be in direct contact with soil. Location may also bake in summer. Probably have to use some kind of juniper or pine. |
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 11, 12 at 14:16
| In addition to what's already been presented (good info, btw) yes, you do need to drill holes in the pots and no, you do not add peanuts or rocks or gravel or anything else to the bottom. I wouldn't worry about the pots blowing over.....the weight of the pot filled with proper potting soil (either of Al's mixes will work but I'd go with the gritty mix for long term) will keep it upright and stable :-) |
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| Ken - Thanks for the reply - even though I feel like it was hit on the head w/a bat! LOL Sorry, but I know "dirt/soil" and "potting mix" - that's it. Media to me is the news media - not something that I plant in. LOL I use one for inside/annuals and one for trees, shrubs, perenials. I mainly hang out on the decorating site - not the garden pages of this site. I have seen a couple of posts on Al's Grity mix - when I started to read it I became more than overwelmed by all the info and technical "stuff". To me in my area evergreens are conifers, spruce, spruce type topiary, and a limited amount of shrubs that I would consider as pot worthy. I think I will be lookng for something that grows to 4 feet or so. Nothing too much higher as I doubt the size of my new pots would be happy with anything much taller or wider. "i am not sure.. but the sun rises in the east in MI ... whats the deal with PA?? ... lol .. " Ok, I understand what you are saying - but, I sure was thinking WRONG....LOL Call it a blonde moment! If I need to move them in the summer to the front of the house, covered porch so they don't "bake" I can do that, as I usually have pots of flowers in that area in the summer. |
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- Posted by akamainegrower none (My Page) on Wed, Sep 12, 12 at 5:26
| In Z5 or 6 there's a very real danger that pots will freeze so deeply - into the 20 degree range - that roots and, of course, the plant will be killed. The old advice about using plants rated at two zones colder is a myth. Even a Z4 plant like Alberta spruce will not survive if its roots are deeply frozen. A western exposure would also subject anything planted in the pots to alternate freezing and thawing as well as intense sun and wind on a plant that cannot take up water from frozen soil. A garage or porch can work, but often you need to put something like a large cardboard box over the plant and pot to help capture ground warmth. |
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- Posted by salicaceae z8b FL (My Page) on Wed, Sep 12, 12 at 13:51
| I don't know, i had plenty of pots of native conifers freeze solid for months in Minnesota and never lost any. I would say some good choices in Pittsburgh would be some of the Juniperus chinensis cultivars - i.e. 'Blue Point', Alberta spruce or possibly one of the Thuja occidentalis cultivars. I know Alberta spruce are occasionally used this way in that region. |
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Wed, Sep 12, 12 at 15:06
| I'm not sure I'd agree with the freezing issues either, depending on plant. Inground soils can freeze to a depth of 3 feet in many colder parts of the country, yet these plants survive. Different plants do have different tolerances for freezing temperatures - Magnolia stellata can suffer intercellular (killing freeze) root damage at 23F while Juniperus conferta can tolerate as low as -9F. There are a great many bonsai enthusiasts that have done a lot of research on this issue so this is a fairly well-studied subject. And goes a long way to validating the "2 zones lower" recommendation in many cases :-) Dwarf Alberta spruce is an excellent choice for this purpose. Not only is it exceptionally hardy but it is well-suited to long term container culture. And even with less tough choices, it is relatively easy to provide additional cold protection to containers simply by wrapping them in a couple of layers of newspaper and bubble wrap. For further information, I'd direct the OP to the long running thread on "Trees in Containers" on the Container Gardening forum. The author of this thread, a GW friend of mine, lives in MI and is pretty much a container gardening authority :-) I'd give his recommendations a great deal of weight. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Trees in containers, part 3 (with links to 1&2)
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- Posted by akamainegrower none (My Page) on Thu, Sep 13, 12 at 5:44
| A great deal of research - readily available online - has been done on root killing temperatures as the nursery industry has increasingly shifted to container growing. There is considerable variation from plant species to plant species, but temperatures in the mid to low 20's are fatal to roots, especially immature ones for a great many plants. It is true that soils can freeze to a depth of 3 feet or more, but this does not mean that temperatures dip into the 20's. The enormous thermal mass provided by in ground planting prevents very cold soil temperatures even though they may go below 32 degrees to a considerable depth. A plant in a relatively small container has no such protection. Subject an Alberta spruce (or many other Z4 plants) in a 10 gallon container to a week or more of 10 degree or subzero temperatures and it will not survive. That the "2 zone colder rule" may appear to work in some cases is coincidental, not the result of a universally applicable "rule". |
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Fri, Sep 14, 12 at 14:14
| FWIW, there are a great many folks living in zone 6 that grow plants in containers on a permanent basis and depending on plant and container size, leave them out all winter. Rather than forcasting doom for any attempt, let's just agree that it is possible and even more so if one does one's homework first. And it is not at all that difficult to provide additional cold protection to containers should a serious cold spell be predicted. |
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| Being next to the garage (assuming it's unheated), they could be brought inside if a nasty cold spell comes. Container size matters. People are successful in MN with large planters with plants like Lilacs, Arborvitae, Junipers. Not sure if it would happen in Zone 5/6, but Dwarf Alberta spruce tend to burn here on the S and SW sides if too exposed in the winter. Quite often you can find deals on evergreens in the fall. Sometimes the price makes it worth treating them as a winter annual. If they survive great, if not, so be it. They will still look great through about April when the death starts to show, then you can put in spring annuals. |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Sat, Sep 15, 12 at 17:11
| Jeannie, the genus Chamaecyparis is one which is often used for small, potted evergreens such as you contemplate. Look at one of the fancy-shmancy conifer nurseries often mentioned on the Conifers forum (Here at Gardenweb) for some vendor ideas. May as well select something really cool for this type of application. Of course, we're talking dwarf, or as some prefer, "garden conifers", not the full-size giants. On the topic of root freezing in an above-ground container, while it may be that sometimes someone in a cold climate does nothing and yet has the plant survive for a time, this is in fact a well-known issue. Rooftop gardens, for one example, are routinely insulated over the winter if they contain perennial plants of any kind, which yours would be intended to be. But this needn't be hugely complicated. Straw, actual home insulation, and right around 250 other materials could be employed. I do though think that akamainegrower's got it right despite some anecdotes to the contrary. Soil in an above-ground container freezes much harder than does the ground right next to it. Depending on the value of whatever plants you end up installing, I'd say it would be both simple and wise to wrap some kind of insulation around them, or do something to account for this. +oM |
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| You can do better than a dwarf alberta spruce. Will pinus aristata (or similar) work in PA? I have one in a pot - no supplemental water just like the yuccas (zone 6b/7a) |
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- Posted by strobiculate none (My Page) on Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 10:42
| There ate times I think we spend too much time staking out defending positions. At what temperature cellular death occurs in root zones is less important than freeze/thaw cycles. Available water, prevailing winds, and degree of nutrient saturation also play a role in survival of plants in winter. Since when did we become so judgemental...you can do better than.... You're not marrying the bloody thing. Not that long ago, the same dwatf alberta spruce was the shiek choice, the sophisticated selection of those with taste and class. Now it's a plebian monstrosity, an overhyped fraud brought to you by...well, select your own conspiracy. I prefer to start my own rumors. Drainage is important to the plant. Not tipping over is important to you. I stick bricks in the bottom of my larger containers, all of which are house plants that summer outside. Cuz I'm too cheap to spend the $$$ on concrete/stone pots to provide the weight. Once you accept that mixing your own soil is far superior to purchasing it in whatever available mixes exist locally...then no one agrees. They all use their own secret recipe, and some guard with information with religous fervor. My permanent containers use a compost blend with approx 30% topsoil. I'd tell you the recipe, but I don't have one. I use the ingredients I have...i don't mind spending to get good materials, but if it meets my minimum standards for acceptability, I prefer to be cheap...and then adjust until i'm satisfied with the finished product. If you have questions, find someone local. No matter where you live, there is someone who does this kind of stuff, and is good at it. That is not to say this person will be the first one you call. My personal choice is to put hardy plants in the ground and reserve those areas I want containers for the splash of color that comes with tropicals and annuals. But I also have mugo pine Tannenbaum, fine line buckthorn, and a magnolia macrophylla in containers. And when I tire of them, i'll plant them out and get something else. What would I get? What catches my eye. I'm just wondering if I have a place to winter a tibouchina. |
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| Strobiculate - sorry to offend re: alberta spruce - I've got a few I can sell you if you need some! New poster here. Talking about the plant itself, not container gardening or the plant physiology. Almost picked up a Tannenbaum recently, wait till they go on sale. |
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| WOW - Thanks for all the replies and suggestions! I think I need to head out to the nursery/garden center and start to look around and decide what to put in my pretty pots that I am going to drill drainage holes in. I guess I just have to try a tree (conifer/evergreen) and see what happens. If I lose it, then I guess I do, and will try, try again. As for the soil - I do have easy acess to some topsoil - and also rich horse manure (LOL) if I go that route, should I add some perilite or something else to loosen the soil? If I move the plants to my garage should it get and stay really cold, do I leave them all winter or move them back out after a really cold zero and below cold snap? Thanks again ! |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Mon, Sep 17, 12 at 18:28
| Jeannie, I would probably add the perlite to a topsoil/horse manure mix. And I'd only use very well decomposed manure of any kind. More a compost really. That can be some really good stuff but it must be well rotted. +oM |
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 18, 12 at 15:54
| Jeannie, if you haven't already read that link, I'd suggest you do so - it should give you some good direction for a potting medium as well. But to sum it up quickly, you Al's grtty mix (which should be referenced in that link) is ideal. Or check out the Container Gardening forum for multiple detailed discussions on this topic. |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Tue, Sep 18, 12 at 18:11
| G-gal may be on to something re: compost. I routinely add it to large containers, with excellent results, but this is for annual plantings. Indeed, with a perennial plant, which your conifer selection would surely be intended to be, I can see where maybe that's not the best option. Hadn't considered that aspect. +oM |
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| Thanks Gardengal - I have started to read the post - I will try to find Al's Gritty Mix amoung all the posts LOL. I do think since I am in a fairly rural area I should be able to find the majority of what he suggests. |
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