|
| - A solid zone 5 or hardier
- Deep roots, limited surface roots - Very Drought tolerant - Well drained, sandy soil - Wind resistant - Non-irregular canopy - Good fall color - Unlimited height but width not to exceed 20' over 30 years - Prefer fine textured leaves but not critical, just don't want Catalpa size leaves - Branching structure allows for limbing up over time. Good luck! Quercus coccinea seems to be the only one I can think of but is too wide. |
Follow-Up Postings:
|
| Quercus robur 'Fastigiata' Some of the narrower Linden varieties (Tilia sp.) Robinia pseudoacacia Ginkgo bilboa 'Princeton Sentry' |
|
| American Smoketree Cotinus obovatus, but MUST BE DRY WELL DRAINED. Prune to shape. You would not regret this one. Arktrees |
|
- Posted by strobiculate none (My Page) on Mon, Sep 3, 12 at 14:19
| Q. mongolica Maackia amurensis aforementioned Cotinus Pyrus Korean Sun Syringa pekinensis Copper Curls |
|
- Posted by ilovemytrees 6a Western NY (My Page) on Mon, Sep 3, 12 at 14:27
| Golden Raintree baby! |
|
| Awesome, I was hoping for a few out of the box suggestions. Hopefully you guys don't mind me breaking them down? Quercus robur 'Fastigiata' Tilia Robinia pseudoacacia Ginkgo bilboa 'Princeton Sentry' Cotinus obovatus Please keep the suggestions rolling! |
|
| You mentioned Chimney Fire to me in an email in the past year. All about how you liked the winter leaf retention and fall color... had it on your wish list at time ;) And now I see you brought it up again in your own topic! Don't really have much to add, just throwing that out there! John ps - As soon as the cottonwoods start their fall show along the river, I'll take pics and post a topic with "ATTN WHAAS" as the subject lol |
|
- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Mon, Sep 3, 12 at 19:50
| Non-irregular canopy ==>> are you trying to confuse me with a double negative??? what about the variegated robur??? fagus asplenifolia??? ... slowwwwww quercus asplenifolia version.. i dont know the name off hand ... oak general Pulaski? esk sunset for a ... god forbid.. maple ... lol ... fake plane ... aka eskimo sunset ... the edged norway.. but probably bad roots .... my saratoga ginkgo is somewhat columnar.. and slloowww ... dont know about fall color on a lot of the above ... thats about all of the out of the box in my yard .. ken |
|
| Not sure why I mentioned Chimney Fire. I did get one. I was thinking Crimson Spire which does not hold onto its leaves...a good thing for this spot. Look forward to it! This year is the beginning of the best yellow I've ever seen. All they needed was extreme drought! Notice the decrepit ones with broken leaders in front of this one. Strob, couple other good selections. Couldn't much find much on that Quercus selection. Hmmm, Golden Raintree. I always thought that was an invasive. I'll have to check it out.
http://www.jfschmidt.com/downloads.html |
|
- Posted by ilovemytrees 6a Western NY (My Page) on Mon, Sep 3, 12 at 21:01
| I've read Golden Raintrees are not invasive in our zones. I love my GR's so much. The leaves are SO beautiful. No one around here has this tree. I can't wait til they're old enough to bloom! |
|
| Just a quick heads up: when we were in Maine in June golden rain trees were in flower (easy to spot on roadsides) and were invasive up there so they should be where you are, too. |
|
- Posted by strobiculate none (My Page) on Tue, Sep 4, 12 at 7:35
| If you wany fall color, go for the Cotinus obovatus. Not the hybrids, not the colored leaved varieties, the straight species. You'll want shades, the color is so intense. Of all the plants I have seen in my life, this one stands out from all the rest for fall color. Pyrus Korean Sun is also memorable for fall color; where the cotinus shines, the korean sun is deep red with orange inside the canopy, creating more of a glowing effect. So what makes out of the bix? My experience has been the use to which you put a plant and the subsequent care it receives can mean more than the original plant choice. I have seen box elder and common buckthorn where it has made me stop and admire the tree while I puzzled briefly over what I was looking at...and then had to make a face when the realization set in. I've also seen purple leaved weeping beech where I felt sorry for it, to be a plant of such potential, to be exiled to such a location. |
|
| whaas, One last word from me on Cotinus obovatus. Don't believe the literature that they are slow growing. They are anything but when happy. When in fertile well draining soil, they grow amazingly fast (several feet per year). Your best bet to get one in tree form, is to purchase a small seedling plant, and prune it to the shape you want. From the looks of the grass in your photo, growth would be very quick. Best advice I ever saw on American Smoketrees was, "plant them, then walk away and forget that you planted them". They really truly do much better when neglected. Arktrees |
|
| Fagus 'Asplenifolia'...I always wanted one of those. But I've always been told that beech has serious surface roots and its not a great lawn tree if you want grass growing around it. Hmmm... Pyrus Korean Sun, although not a fan of pear I've considered this plant in the past. Might be a bit small but something to consider none the less. I found a nursery in which I can special order this and others so that works out nicely. http://www.jfschmidt.com/downloads.html I've also seen purple leaved weeping beech where I felt sorry for it, to be a plant of such potential, to be exiled to such a location. Yep there is a mulch place down the road that has one on a slope, in full blazing sun, exposed to all winds. It looks so sad. Cotinus obovatus, that is a tough one to find. Any suggestions on a source?
|
|
| pineridgegardens.com - I have received several babies from them and all have grown extremely well Forestfarm also has them. I have two in the front yard from them that have done well this year. John |
|
| Would you be so kind as to share pics? |
|
| Thanks for the suggestions. Although Pine Ridge doesn't have the greatest breadth of cultivars they make up for it through species. And imagine this, a company that doesn't gouge you on shipping. Ken, If you're still hanging around do you still have those sweet Scarlet Oak pics? Est. age and size would be helpful too. Sorry I'm a bit needy this fall! |
|
- Posted by jimbobfeeny 5a IN (My Page) on Tue, Sep 4, 12 at 20:16
| Pin oak? (Quercus palustris) Chestnut oak - Quercus prinus (or montana) There's a scarlet oak in the woods behind my house that is probably 400 years old - A diameter of at least 3 feet (it takes 3 long-armed people to reach around it), well over 100 feet tall, and with a canopy width of about 50 feet. Pretty impressive! Yellow birch (heh - kidding) From what I've seen with beech (American, anyways), you can grow less under a beech than a maple. A few clumps of beech drops, anyways. Beech have the shallowest roots of any tree, as far as I'm concerned. I do like them, though - Definitely more suited to larger properties! |
|
| whaas, FWIW, I really like Pine Ridge. I and my female counterpart took a trip down there for an open house they were having a couple years ago. Was worth the trip. The woman that owns/runs the place is as nice as she can be. She told us she just likes to grow things from seeds, and that was how she got started. They are definitely not trying to get wealthy off the business. We perused for at least a couple of hours. We spent ALLOT more than we intended and barely had room to bring it back. I ended up with a Chalk Maple Acer luecoderme, which was the first time I had ever seen Chalk Maple offered. It was so rare, I just could not resist. BTW, Chalk Maple is another potential candidate for you as well. Also it was at her place that I first saw a mature Yellowwood in flower, and was it ever impressive. Turned me into a fan of them on the spot. Since then we have talked to her several times, and it has always been a pleasant experience. Forest Farm, well that was another story. Arktrees |
|
| Here is the best looking one of the two I received this spring from Forest Farm. It has had 4 flushes this year; 2 1" and 2 4-5" for about 1' total. The leaves are huge and the trunk has really thickened up. Also, MaryAnn at PRG propagates her smoketrees from seed while I believe FF's are rooted cuttings (the one shown flowered this spring). I have only watered it 2-3 times during this ridiculous summer while it has displayed very little stress so far. When I planted this one, it appeared the root system was compromised/rotten and I never expected it to break bud but it has grown very well this year while the other with a much better looking root system is only half the plant this one is (the less vigorous plant was deer pruned while breaking bud).
|
|
| Thought I would adds some pictures of American Smoke tree that I took at a local park last fall. These trees almost certainly came from Pine Ridge Gardens, as I know the local City park caretakers have bought lots of natives from PRG. Also, I went to this part a few weeks ago, and these American Smoke Trees had grown several feet this year. John, your tree is looking very good. Hope you get some nice color out of it. You probable won't need to water them at all after this year. I have not watered ours, and it seems rather happy. Arktrees
Another one at a later date, but in the same park.
|
|
- Posted by formandfoliage 9b (Sunset zone 15) (My Page) on Wed, Sep 5, 12 at 9:47
| Just have to weigh in with a vote for the Cotinus obovatus. The best fall color that I know, and the growth habit is much nicer than 'Grace' (a hybrid of C. obovatus and C. coggyria). Agree with the comment that you would never regret it! I couldn't find it around here so I got mine from Forest Farm. Some great suggestions in response to your query. |
|
| I don't know, I'm digging my 'Grace' more so above with the foilage interest. Although, Jon, yours is developing an extremely promising habit similar to the stellar specimen Ark posted from the CEO. Can you dig that one upand send it to me?lol! As always appreicate the pics! It looks like the challenge with this tree is getting a tree habit. If you succed it sure is a nice tree from the looks of it. I'll post a pic of my 'Grace' with fall color. It was in part shade last year and I don't remember the fall color. |
|
| oooh! I didn't realize Cotinus obovatus had such great fall color. I've wanted one ever since I saw a magnificent smoketree in Toronto and you folk identified it for me as a Cotinus obovatus (see link below to that thread). Now I'll have to make a trip in to Toronto once the leaves change color this fall to see what that one looks like in the fall! Unfortunately I haven't got space for one here at this point but it's high on my list if a space opens up at some point. They are hard to find here too but my favorite nursery in Niagara says they can order one in for me whenever I want it. whaas (and others here...) - do you have a white redbud in your collection? It doesn't meet all your requirements ,but it's one of my favorite small trees here. I don't like the common pink-flowered ones, but the white one is beautiful. I have two, both of which I keep to a single trunk and limbed up to emphasize the lovely arching shape of their tops. They don't have great fall color unfortunately - manly because they stay green until the end of October and then they are briefly yellow before dropping the leaves. But the flowers and the shape make them well worth adding to the garden. This picture is from this morning (taken from the back porch. At this point the tree is just a dark green that isn't all that striking at this distance - but if you stand under it and look up, the arching, forked branches look like the fan vaulting on a cathederal ceiling! This redbud is about 10 years old. The small tree that forms the right side of the 'arch' in this picture is a younger white redbud. Its branches aren't arching as much yet as the older one and it'll also need a bit more limbing-up in the next couple of years.
|
Here is a link that might be useful: mature smoketree
|
| Just my opinion, whaas, but Grace is my favorite tree for spring foliage (excluding Japanese maples) followed closely by Rising Sun redbud (this might get flipped when my RS is established). Grace is stunning in the spring! The summer foliage of the species I posted is an emerald green or aqua green and I don't have any broadleaf species that are similar, the closest being Blue Shadow fothergilla but it has much more frosty blue than the smoketree. I find it as unique and interesting as bald cypress which I also fancy in summer. I admit my two smoketrees were afterthoughts when I ordered 2 Keith Davey CP from FF and saw that shipping would be the same if I ordered two more same sized trees. I am certainly happy with that decision so far! John |
|
| You can see in the second pic this is new construction hardpan. Also only watered 2-3 times this summer and not even a scorched leaf the last time I looked at it. Tree is full sun all day. The leaves have of course faded considerably from these pics. Can't say it has done any better or worse than the species with the limited water this year. It was extremely potbound when I planted it. I could not even get my box knife blade more than 0.5" into the outer rootball. But I LOVE the form so I stuck in the ground anyway.
|
|
| whaas, IMHO pruning and controlled growth is the key. If you notice in one of the pictures that I posted of the trees in the park, that the top is pruned out. When I went by these trees a few weeks ago, they looked better IIRC. I will try to get by that park again soon, and grab a couple of pics for you. There is one at the local botanical garden that had literally 12 feet shoots in one growing season last year. The tree is located in a part sun, in heavy mulch, very good drainage, but watered as the same time as everything else around it was. Needless to say it was very lanky. To get better form, I think you need it to have more controlled growth combined with good pruning. Ours growth seems to be tied to rainfall. First year it grew well, but there was fairly regular rain. Nest year, it grew until it got dry. In early July we got 5.25" rain in one night, and it put on another flush. But there was no more signification rain till late August and there was no more growth. Last year and this year, it of course dried early and there has been a single flush of growth each year. I'm perfectly fine with the slower growth as it seems to be filling out better. Plus I placed it where it has LOTS of competition from weeds, so that the soil should dry out quicker and reduce the chances of root disease. We have not gotten good fall color as of yet, though it did have a bit last year. However, ours flowered for the first time this year, so I'm hoping that signals a fall color display. John, your are looking great with that guy. Bet you get a couple feet or more next year. Excellent! Arktrees |
|
| Looks like this turned into an American Smoketree lovefest! This is good though as its obviously an under-rated, under-planted tree. Those pics are getting me pumped about the fall season. Look forward to epic posts that you guys did last year with pics. This forum sure could use galleries once in awhile. The 'Grace' pictured above was 1' tall believe it or not this spring. It just put out another 2' when it flushed again in early August. I have pruned it twice to get that dense branching. The emerging foliage as Jon mentioned is quite stellar. Its even more impressive when you get another flush and it constrasts nicely with the blueish older foilage. You can somewhat see the contrast in the pic but that new foilage is about 4 weeks old now. |
|
| Here's my Smoke Tree. I think this one is called, 'Royal Purple'. Mike  |
|
| if you didn't care about fall color you could plant a pine tree! Maybe larch? They are fairly narrow with yellow fall color. |
|
| Got plenty of those!lol! I always thought Larch not to be so drought tolerant for some reason. Might have to check that out. Nice texture and fall color though!
|
|
- Posted by tsugajunkie z5 SE WI (My Page) on Fri, Sep 7, 12 at 18:29
| Hey Will, the Prunus sargentii 'Ranchero' in my front yard fits all of those criteria. Well, ok, a little suckering of the roots and fall color, though excellent, is a bit short lived. And it has a quality you don't mention, flowering. How high are you going to need to limb it up? tj |
Here is a link that might be useful: Remember?
|
| Would have never thought of that one. The other half sure would dig those flowers. How old was yours again? I recall it looked pretty good at the height of this brutal summer. I'd only limb up perhaps 8' over time. Plants with more upright branching would be desirable in this case. |
|
- Posted by tsugajunkie z5 SE WI (My Page) on Fri, Sep 7, 12 at 22:37
| Planted spring of 2001 as an 8-10 footer. Doesn't like wet feet. Johnson's warned me against putting it in my clay but I planted it high and it never missed a beat. And, yes, it looked quite well this year, but the bed its in was watered regularly (inch a week). tj |
|
| whaas, Sorry it has taken me so long to get those pictures that I promised you a few weeks ago. I finally remember to go by the park when I had time yesterday. These pictures were taken with my cell phone, so they are not top quality, but they will allow you to see how much these American Smoke Trees Cotinus obovatus have grown in the growing season. These are the same three trees I posted above and the photos I posted last fall. If you want the tree form, then IMHO you have little choice but to buy them small and prune them to the shape you would like. Arktrees
Bonus pictures. This is our Blackgum beginning to put on a nice show.
|
|
| Thanks for the pics! I did pick up a C.o and asked for a single stem plant with a leader. I did get a single stem but it had a very aggressive lateral with a snipped out leader and then a 1/16" upright. I can cut the lateral out and hopefully it will put that energy into the one upright. FF really does stink. Your BG is looking good. Time for a pruning in late winter! Mine is just barely coloring up as the if had some serious problems with leaf spot this year. Which is strange as the humidity has been low all year up until late Aug and Sept. |
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Trees Forum
Instructions
- You must be a registered member and logged in to post messages on our forums.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review the contents and make changes.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- It is illegal to post copyrighted material without the owner's consent.
- HTML codes are allowed in the message field only.
- No advertising is allowed in any of the forums.
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.