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| Hi, I am living in central PA, zone 6 and trying to decide on a tree for our backyard. The yard size is 50' by 55'. And we have backyard neighbors. We have already decided to plant burning bushes as our back hedge (and possibly later on the sides) We are trying to pick a tree. My husband is concerned that if we pick a large shade tree that grass won't grow under the tree. I think I want a shade tree, and a Red Maple is my first choice but am concerned about the shallow roots. Are there any other concerns with that tree? Is there anything that can be done to prevent shallow roots?
Is that too big of a tree for our yard? Others have suggested a October Glory Maple. I love the color of the maple- I love the red leaves. I am not a fan of yellow. Does anyone have any suggestions? I want a hardy tree that can withstand PA winters/ and an occasional ice storm. We want something that will provide some privacy from neighbors (but don't mind winters as only having branches- so don't necessarily want an evergreen. Plus most evergreens are large. (blue spruce would be my favorite) |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by greenthumbzdude 6 PA (My Page) on Sun, Sep 30, 12 at 14:45
| Pignut Hickory (Carya glabra) its drought tolerant and it has a very strong structure. Its has a deep root system so no surface roots and its native so it has ecological benefits. Plus it lives 300 years on average. Gets to about 80 feet I wouldn't plant those burning bushes though there invasive in PA you will have seedlings popping up all over your yard. Viburnums make a much better hedge |
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Sun, Sep 30, 12 at 14:52
| Yeah, the burning bushes are an attractive plague here in st louis also. Your "insert named cloned variety" red maple is a safe choice. Biggest problem is they are everyplace and for good reason. Dawn redwood is my favorite, I mention it all the time. You'd think I was on commission lol. There are also a couple oaks with good fall color. Some pin oaks, most scarlet oaks. As long as the spot is far enough from your home that only a bit of the tree will over your beds reach at maturity consider sugar maple as well. |
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- Posted by jimbobfeeny 5a IN (My Page) on Sun, Sep 30, 12 at 17:13
| Why not a Northern Red Oak? Grass grows just fine under them, and you can usually find one with an exceptional scarlet autumn color. |
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- Posted by Tn_Tree_Man 7A (My Page) on Sun, Sep 30, 12 at 21:30
| Well, you note that you have a yard size of 50' by 55' so this will limit the amount of space for a "shade tree." Don't choose the sugar maple unless you want the whole yard in the shade (not necessarily bad but your husband will not be able to grow any grass in the yard!). Shoot for species that will mature at about 50' in height. One that is somewhat under-utilized is Black gum (Nyssa sylvatica). It has glossy green leaves turning to a brilliant scarlet in the fall. It provides open shade so grass should be ok under it, plus it does not have trouble with surface roots. |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Sun, Sep 30, 12 at 22:11
| Nick, "October Glory" IS a red maple cultivar. By red maple, do you perhaps mean one of the crimson-foliaged Norway maple cultivars, like "Crimson King"? If so, I'd strongly suggest you not plant that variety. Not a bad tree per se, but no chance for a lawn underneath that or any Norway maple cultivar as they get going. The shade that is cast is far too deep. Norway maple is also invasive in some regions, such as my own. Lots of good suggestions coming in though.........+oM |
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| Thanks for the suggestions! I really like the Black Gum. I hadn't heard of it before. The Northern Red Oak is nice too. Are there any negatives to the Black Gum? I heard the slower the growing the stronger the tree. All I know about trees are from web searches and the Arbor Day Foundation- The Red Maple I like is the original one- It's a shame about the roots. I guess they made some hybrids out of the original Red Maple- http://www.arborday.org/shopping/trees/treedetail.cfm?ID=28 and that's how they got October Glory, Autumn Blaze, etc. Oh, about the Burning Bush- it's not invasive here. I asked the local nursery and they said no, and my neighbors across the street have a bunch and they haven't have invasive issues. |
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| I would go for cherrybark oak. Fast growing, red in autumn, no shallow roots. One of the strongest woods of the red oaks. And it is an oak. |
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- Posted by akamainegrower none (My Page) on Mon, Oct 1, 12 at 5:27
| Burning bush - euonymus alata - is listed as a seriously invasive species by the PA department of forestry. People in the business of selling burning bush are not exactly reliable sources of information about invasiveness. Sales of this species have been banned in some states and the lack of seedlings in a neighbors yard does not mean it's not invasive. Birds spread the seeds far and wide. Once established, burning bush can crowd out native species to a very great extent. There are lots of more desireable plants for a hedge. |
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| I can't imagine someone spending money on burning bush. Here in NY they are found growing wild on sides of roads.Anyone who has them would be happy to have someone dig up a few for free. |
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Mon, Oct 1, 12 at 14:11
| Nyssa sylvatica is really nice. I have a difficult time transplanting them. They have to be among the most polite trees possible. Reasonably small leaves and seeds. |
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- Posted by jimbobfeeny 5a IN (My Page) on Mon, Oct 1, 12 at 14:53
| Northern Red Oak plods along for a few years, and then shoots for the moon, growing at about 3 feet a year. If you want a burning bush, plant the native one, Euonymus americanus. |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Mon, Oct 1, 12 at 17:44
| Nicki, not to belabor the point, but "October Glory" is but one of many red maple cultivars. It is not a Freeman maple, which is a hybrid between red maple and silver maple. "Autumn Blaze" is one such Freeman maple. I'm very fond of N. red oak. Just saw some immense ones the other day. I like that they're true forest trees as opposed to things like white, swamp white, and bur oaks, which are somewhat more inclined to be oak savannah trees. Not totally so, but to a degree. Burning bush Eunymous, besides being an invasive plant, simply does not belong in a conversation about trees. It's a shrub. Which brings me to my main point: Before deciding on what kind of tree you want to plant, you should decide what growth form and ultimate size you're after. Big and spreading, like an Am. elm? Tall and oval, like a sugar maple? Tall and narrow, like many lindens? You get my drift? Assess what shape and size you're after......then decide what leaf color, bark characteristic, flower show, etc. you like. +oM |
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| I'm going to be planting an Autumn Blaze in my yard here in St.Louis MO very shortly. I was worried about the surface roots as from what the majority of folks here say they are terrible. So I decided to look around my area for larger Maples and what types of roots they were showing on the surface. Much to my surprise I really haven't found too many with roots bad enough to even slightly have a negative effect on the flora near the trunk/the surface of the substrate. My two neighbors across the street have slightly older Maples (30-40 feet tall), one is a Red maple the other a Sugar maple and both of them have nice grass underneath and really no roots to speak of. My father who loves roughly a mile from my home has a 60+ year old Silver Maple and again, nice grass under it and only one or two roots on the surface that disturb grass growth. I dont know maybe these are the extreme exceptions? |
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Tue, Oct 2, 12 at 18:47
| Ditto. In my yard the silver maples had only a surface root or two, hardly a nightmare but I suppose it is a thing if you are going for the golf course manicure. Similar in my neighbor's for the big sugar maple. Wonder if it is worse in the compacted soil of new construction? |
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| Autum Blaze Maple or seedless Sweet Gum. |
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- Posted by Tn_Tree_Man 7A (My Page) on Tue, Oct 2, 12 at 21:42
| "Wonder if it is worse in the compacted soil of new construction?" I think that you have pretty well hit the nail on the head here regarding the cause of most maple surface roots. Compacted and/or heavy clay soils will create conditions for surface roots. If one were to look at root systems of maples in the deep soils in the woodland setting, surface rooting would be the exception and not the rule. |
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- Posted by jimbobfeeny 5a IN (My Page) on Wed, Oct 3, 12 at 8:05
| I've also noticed that Maple roots are closer to the surface on steeper slopes than on flats - I've been able to grow plants under sugar maples around here no problem, at least in better soils. A fairly big creek crosses our property way in the back, and over the years, 5 feet of loose, black silt have been piled over the original clay till. There is sugar maple along the creek, but I've never had problems with shallow roots. |
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