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agray132

Can a dogwood thrive in nevada?

agray132
10 years ago

I'm a newbie at this so be easy on me. I live in northeastern Nevada in zone 1 at about 5000 feet or better in a desert climate but there is the ruby mountain range approximately 15 miles away that slightly changes the climate at my residence. Generally considered the Great Basin area. The soil here has poor to moderate drainage. We can get down around -15F in winter and upwards peak of 110 in the summer. I'm considering planting a white dogwood tree in the lawn area of my front yard. I do have a sprinkler system that would keep the soil moist around the tree during the spring, summer, and early fall. My house would be situated to the north of the tree and I have nearly a continuous easterly wind that would hit the tree. We are fairly windy here but rarely high winds, mainly between 10 to 20 mph. We have hot, dry weather/wind. The winters do provide a moderate amount of snowfall that stays on the ground for around 3 months of winter (Dec through Mar). I was told a dogwood could survive here if taken care of. Would a dogwood survive here in your opinion?

Comments (33)

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    Hi there,

    Well, your temp information about your region is a bit off. Near the Rubies (southwestern Elko County) temperatures never hit 110. 105 occasionally, 108 once (and that's right in downtown Elko) but no temps of 110 are on record. This past summer, which was considered very hot, only hit 104 in Elko and barely 100 in Spring Creek. At least from reliable thermometers, some poorly sited/ventilated sites did read over 110, but those readings are false. -15 is easy in the winter here, it can get to -30 some winters especially away from downtown Elko, and even in downtown Elko it once hit -43, though that was back in the 1930s.

    As far as your tree... you can give it a go, though the extremes of this climate will *NOT* be to its liking. The wild daily swings (it can easily be 30 in the morning and 70 in the afternoon) throw most eastern trees off. Plus, the very low summertime humidity combined with frequently gusty afternoon winds tends to dessicate trees from the east.

    In other words, be prepared for it to struggle or fail.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    10 years ago

    You would need to go out of your way to provide care - the conditions are marginal at best. One of the best regionally-directed listings of plant suitability - the Sunset Western Garden Book - lists a minimum of their zone 2 (2b for C. florida) as a hardiness range for dogwoods. Their system evaluates for altitude, rainfall, summer heat and general growing conditions as well as winter cold.

    Before deciding, test for both soil and irrigation water pH - dogwoods prefer a slightly acidic soil (5.5-6.0) as well as one that is evenly moist yet well draining. And with the potential for your summer temperatures, a siting that offers at least partial shade (afternoon preferred) is a requirement.

  • j0nd03
    10 years ago

    If you put a cornus florida in that exposure and it gets full sun with no afternoon shade, you are wasting your money! A redbud might be a better fit for the spot but it you will be hardpressed to find a tree that will be happy in -15* weather covered in snow 3 months of the year that must suffer through 110* heat in the summer. What kinds of trees do other people in your area have in their yards? Have you seen any healthy looking dogwoods?

    John

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    10 years ago

    Amid all of the site details you gave us, you mention nothing of the overstory trees that will provide high shade for your dogwood. Their shade requirements are typically described as "partial shade, dappled shade, high shade, morning sun..." Dogwoods are an understory tree and struggled if not grown with some protection from the full, blazing sun.

    Considering the other struggles that a Cornus florida will face in your climate, lack of some shade could push it over the edge.

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    j0nd03, the most common flowering trees here are crabapples. They seem to be tough enough to deal with this place.

  • j0nd03
    10 years ago

    Thanks for the tip! They performed very well in our heat and drought in '11 and '12 so that makes sense to me they are some of the better performers in your climate.

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I'm in spring creek, nv approx 10 miles from rubies. I'm prob off on temp slightly. I know we hit 105 a couple times this year. Below -15 is rare but does occur, windchill would prob push it further. I have no other trees. I'm just developing my property and wanted something different than a pine, evergreen, birch or poplar tree which is common out here for yard trees. Crab tree and apple trees do grow here. The only shade would come from my house in the late evening. Prob around 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. in the summer and partial at that. I know I can keep the ground moist but I worry about the cold more than anything. By the way, you guys have an awesome response time.

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Gardengal, I spend a lot of time looking through sunset western garden book. I was told by a friend of mine to take zone 1 and Zone 2 with a grain of salt when it comes to my particular area. What may grow at my place might not grow 5 miles away. Idk if there's any truth to that and that's why I'm asking you fine folks your opinion. By the way I pretty much refuse to put a pine tree in my yard. I have no desire for it as a yard tree.

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    Are you basing your temps on a home thermometer, agray132? Those are notoriously off especially if poorly sited. Elko itself got no hotter than 104 so I'm sure Spring Creek was cooler than that. Meanwhile just last winter it was below -20 in Spring Creek (-17 in Elko).

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    You are prob correct famartin. It was a home thermometer. I remember the -20 well this winter as I was working night shifts outdoors in it. Do you have any tips if I decide to go through with it that would help out its survival?

  • Beeone
    10 years ago

    For trees, you might look at an ash or kentucky coffee tree as they would handle the climate. Russian olives would do well and make a very nice tree when pruned up to get away from the thorns, although they are losing popularity because of their invasiveness along streams. But, they aren't flowering trees necessarily. For flowers, maybe a chokecherry or lilac.

    You could also plant american plums for a show in the spring and a small tree. I think a dogwood would have a real struggle with your pH and climate.

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I got Russian olives as a border around my two acre property. Excellent desert tree, hard to screw up. I grew them from seed in my father's greenhouse and planted them amongst the sage brush without any problems. Ugly as all get up even when pruned in my opinion. I'm disappointed that I'm just out of the zone for a dogwood. I'm thinking of a few options such as a red maple, redbud, Japanese cherry or prairifire crab. My father also suggested an ash but I haven't looked into them much.

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks Dr. Sounds like to much work considering I'm not set up to care for the tree the way it would need to be and for only a slight chance of survival. The high desert is definitely a challenge. I appreciate your time and detail. I will use your advice on my future garden though. I wasn't 100% sure on how to properly add an acidic substitute to the soil to achieve purple flowers on some flowering bush species considering our alkaline soil here. You are of great help.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    10 years ago

    all your problems are solved.. in regard to your dogwood dreams..

    at the link

    ken

    Here is a link that might be useful: link

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    Ash does well here, if you drive around Elko you'll see quite a few. In fact they even lined Idaho Street with them downtown. They'll need irrigation of course but otherwise will be fine.

    Red Maple will struggle if it survives at all; its a tree that likes wet ground so this is the opposite of its desired habitat, and the dry winds will suck the moisture right out of it.

    I haven't seen any redbuds around here, but they might handle this place with proper irrigation.

    We have some hardy flowering hawthornes at my office, they seem to do alright.

    I noticed the vet I go to has some flowering cherries but they were recently planted (last few years) so their ultimate survivability is still in question.

    Lilac is common in Elko so if you want a flowering bush you might go for that. I've seen a few forsythia too but not many.

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks ken. I guess I could always get a bonsai. Lol. Ill just have to move on from my dream. Famartin, these would be planted in the grass area of my yard and I have a sprinkler system that would keep the ground moist. I think I'm gonna go with a redbud. The tolerances seem to fit this area and they take to alkaline soil. I believe there is a maple planted by the city near Sergios on Idaho street. Not 100% sure, I caught just a glimpse of it a few days ago. I've seen several silver maples grown in our area but Im staying away from them, roots are a pain and they eventually ruin your lawn (my grand father had one and you couldn't walk on the lawn barefoot without sticking your foot on the suckers). I would imagine that if a silver could grow out here with irrigation then a red could unless something I don't know is drastically different between the two.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    10 years ago

    Red maple has quite the genetic variability. One of the common names of the species is "swamp maple" so at least some of them must like swamps and wet conditions. The way to buy them is to get a named cultivar for reliable fall color. I will go and assume one step further that you should get a named cultivar for heat and drought tolerance and not get one with a mother from Mississippi!

    Is there a good botanical garden around Elko to give you some ideas? Phoenix has a heck of one which opened my Midwestern eyes to all sorts of low desert plants. Is there a Northern Nevada equivalent?

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    I think there's a decent sized Norway Maple on 12th Street, near the high school. And a decent sized silver maple somewhere around 1st street and Pine? Not sure exactly where. If you drive down Silver Street you'll see a bunch of Freeman's Maples, crosses between Red and Silver, but they all seem to be struggling with slow growth and a lot of summer leaf burn. I'll have to take a look for that silver I saw to see how it survives the summer foliage-wise.

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    Botanical garden in Elko, that's a funny one toronado! :P (if you lived here, you might understand... this is the land of miners, and a botanic garden seems too... how do I say it... "frilly" for them. Plus, as mentioned, the climate is not good)

    Oh, now that I think of it, there's a large silver maple in the city park by the museum. It looks... eh, OK I guess, but I wouldn't say its "thriving".

    This post was edited by famartin on Fri, Sep 27, 13 at 19:19

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    10 years ago

    I have done the road trip thing south of you Vegas and Phoenix and Death Valley....Rhyolite, Beatty? If I remember. Has been a few years. Area ended up being considerably more scenic than I thought.

    All my Northern Nevada knowledge comes from looking at railroad maps and trying to give directions to first responders to railroad sidings strung out from Sparks through Winnemucca and to Salt Lake. Amazing how many bad things happen with ppl and trains miles from the city.

    Your climate sounds very difficult for plant life. Sounds like even my prickly pear cacti which I can grow in St Louis might not stand your cold!

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Ill have to check out those areas famartin and see how they are holding up. I'm guessing not enough acid in the soil for them. Maybe to high of elevation. Its amazing how high elevation will considerably stunt the growth of some trees. Tornado, this season I found several cacti started growing wild on my property. I don't know what type, very small and clumped together tightly against the ground. No gardens here toronado just the internet for advice.

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Ill have to check out those areas famartin and see how they are holding up. I'm guessing not enough acid in the soil for them. Maybe to high of elevation. Its amazing how high elevation will considerably stunt the growth of some trees. Tornado, this season I found several cacti started growing wild on my property. I don't know what type, very small and clumped together tightly against the ground. No gardens here toronado just the internet for advice.

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    I've seen two types of cacti in the area, prickly pear and ball. Not sure exactly what species either of them are.

  • bengz6westmd
    10 years ago

    Osage-orange (Whiteshield is male/thornless) is super-tough & might do OK. Honeylocust is a possibility too. Edit: Both tolerate alkaline soils & drought well.

    Maybe you're tired of single-leaf pinyon pines, but they'd be alot better than nothing IMO.

    This post was edited by beng on Sun, Sep 29, 13 at 9:14

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    Actually there are a fair number of Honey Locust around here. Haven't seen any Osage-orange.

    Interestingly, this area is on the extreme northwest edge of Pinyon territory... they grow in the Rubies but no further northwest. So technically Spring Creek and Elko are just beyond their natural range.

    Though I do have several I transplanted growing in my yard ;)

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    When I was at Washington State University during the 1970s there was one of some size and age placed to serve as a living sculpture on a tiny island in the center of a formal pool located where there was a building that went all the way around the scheme, in the manner of Moorish architecture. So the tree got shade, wind protection and humidity.

    WSU is located in the Palouse wheat country of se WA. Before it was all converted to agriculture the dominant landscape was bunchgrass steppe, with conifers and other trees in ravines with streams and on hills high enough to provide the little bit of extra moisture needed by for these to survive the early years.

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thornless honeylocust aren't a bad shade tree. They are in my area as famartin pointed out. I like pines and evergreens, I just don't want to put one in the middle of my lawn. My father who also lives out here has a couple of different pines, an evergreen and two blue spruce in his yard. They do great here.He also has quaking aspen that do great as well. Im thinking a redbud or crabapple tree or both.Medium sized yard trees that dont dwarf my house

  • drpraetorius
    10 years ago

    I think a Redbud would be a good choice. They are tough trees and have the advantage over crabs of not dropping fruit.

    The suggestions of Honey Locust or Kentucky Coffee Trees for shade are also good. I prefer the Kentucky Coffee tree over the Honey Locust simply because the locust is so commonly planted. If you go for a locust, there is a variety called Shade Master that gets good size in a reasonable time and gives good shade.

    For evergreens, for something a little different, consider White Fir, Incense Cedar or Western Red Cedar.

    The Osage Orange has been mentioned in this thread. I would whole heartedly second that nomination. This is good looking tree that is tough as nails. You would probably have to start it from seed as few nurseries handle them. Or you may be able to find seedlings online. Seeds are readily available online. It is used as a windbreak tree on the high plains so it can handle wind and some drought. It has a taproot going down 20 feet sometimes.

    Another flowering tree that is worth considering is the Yellowwood. It blooms in late spring so the flowers are not usually hit by frost. They have the grey bark of a Beech and leaves that look like Walnut. Again, you would most likely have to get them online.

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    How late is late? This place tends to freeze in June many years. Of course, that sort of thing also slows down most things. Somehow the crabs seem to avoid getting hurt by late freezes most of the time.

  • agray132
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I'm considering goin to a nursery and ordering an established tree (8 to 12 feet) as I have been involved in planting saplings of trees which claim to be hardy but not when they are young and require attention. I haven't had much success. The weather here is harsh. This causes my reluctance to order online which only sells saplings or 4 to 5 ft trees which may or may not come in good condition.

    Famartin, we have pines growing on the summit. Are those Bristlecone Pines?

  • famartin
    10 years ago

    Lamoille Summit? Those are all Utah Juniper, Juniperus osteosperma. At the entrance of Lamoille Canyon there are Single-leaf Pinyon, Pinus monophylla, mixed with the juniper, and further up Lamoille Canyon there are Limber Pine, Pinus flexilis, and Whitebark Pine, Pinus albicaulis. There is said to be a grove of Bristlecone Pine, Pinus longaeva, up in Thomas Canyon, but I haven't been up there to see them. Its supposed to be the only grove of them in the central/northern Rubies. There are also isolated groves of White Fir, Abies concolor, in Seitz Canyon and Engelmann Spruce, Picea engelmannii, in Thorpe Canyon, both of those being the only known groves of those species in the Rubies.

  • bengz6westmd
    10 years ago

    drpraetorius, I bought grafted 'Whiteshield' osage-orange from mail-order, so they should be available. The males grow quite upright compared to the females (and no fruit).

    Redbuds might actually work (how about Oklahoma redbud?) They pioneer here on dry, hot road-cut rock slopes where you wouldn't expect them to. No dogwood can do that -- they'd burn up immediately.