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angies66

Screen of trees - long, rambling questions

angies66
13 years ago

I live next door the local high school football field. There is a road in between our properties that belongs to the school. It is full of traffic and pedestrians during games, and when school is letting out. I have never had much of a problem with the noise from the field, other than band practice on Saturday mornings. A year or two ago, the school changed "divisions" (i think that is what it is called, not into sports) and now they play much, much larger school districts. That means ALOT more noise than there use to be, and alot more people. My property is not fenced, so some of the drivers on the road actually drive right through my yard and out my driveway trying to avoid traffic.

I want to plant a tree screen. To block as much noise as possible, keep people and their cars out of my yard, and also provide a windbreak and shelter for wildlife. These trees need to be evergreen, obviously, since the school activities occure during the fall and winter. What do I plant?

The area in question faces north. The area that I want to plant in is 140 feet long. I plan on planting the trees about 23 feet from the road. I would like to plant them as close to my property line as possible, but there are power lines overhead. If I plant them 23 feet from the road, from the center of that "spot" it is 86 feet from the front of my house. So I do have a little room to make adjustments. If the tree canopies will be wide I will have to move them closer in my property line. I still want to keep the "screen" as far from my house (and as close to my property line) as possible. According to some charts I am zone 6, and others say I am zone 7.

I love southern magnolias, but afraid that the straight north winds in winter would be too much for them, and their slow growth rate is not a plus. I love Hollies??, but they all seem to be shrubs. The few Hollies that I have seen as trees seem very sparse also. I need dense trees to help block noise. I am not a fan of pine trees at all. They are too light colored, to sparse, and I just do not like them....at all! Lol. I have been thinking Leyland Cypress trees. I like the idea of their fast growth rates, but I have heard they are not great trees.

Can anyone give me some ideas on what to plant? Even better, TELL me what to plant, lol. I am a total newbie on this subject. I have no idea what to do. I will be going to nurseries this week, and would really like to be planting trees next weekend.

Comments (20)

  • gardningrandma
    13 years ago

    Leylands are a fast growing and dense screen for sure but you said there are powerlines so that rules out a lot. In fact it rules out just about everything that comes to *my* mind other than one of the tree (not shrub) hollies (such as nelly r stevens) and you said they don't grow well in your area (not a surprise to me).
    Well there are eastern redcedars. They supposedly can grow to 50' but I haven't seen any taller than about 25' so that could be an idea. Not the easiest tree to find in offered for sale you may have to check with a nursery that specializes in native plants. They are known to be very adaptable to tough sites (like farm fields) and they have a pleasant aroma. Very good for screening. There are some cultivars with bluish foliage and some that are more pyramidal than others. I always suggest a mixed planting and not just a single row. You may find large fast growing shrubs like sea green juniper to fill the gaps in a separate row on the side closest to the powerlines. Another more radical idea is to build a berm. A big one.

  • lkz5ia
    13 years ago

    A running bamboo like the beautiful Phyllostachys aureosulcata 'Spectabilis'or many other shorter Phyllostachys species would work great as a screen in your zone. Easy control can be attained mowing along the screen, so can keep it the width that you want it to be. It would become very dense and quick to grow into the screen you desire.

  • scotjute Z8
    13 years ago

    Eastern Red Cedar would work. If left with limbs all the way to the ground they will not tend to get as tall.
    Another conifer that works well down here is Arizona Cypress. It's also very adaptable but must be in well-drained areas. Blue Ice is an AC cultivar that looks good and is rated for Z6 and sometimes Z5.

    Both of these trees are drought resistant. Both usually top out around 30-40' in my area with 30" annual rainfall. Both can achieve 70'+ in good conditions in a forest. Open grown will probably top out at 40' or less even in good conditions. They should both be planted no closer than 20' to a powerline, I'd recommend 30'. Space at probably 12-15' apart.

    There may be other choices for your zone, perhaps someone will chime in.

    Trees can provide a visual screening, but they will most likely simply provide a slight damping effect for sound. A solid berm or masonry wall would probably be required for noticeable noise reduction.

  • angies66
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thank you all for the info.
    The nellie steven hollie is something that I see for sale at all gardening centers, so maybe it will work if its so readily available. I would assume that the gardeing centers and nurseries would not sell something that is not appropriate to use in our area? Right?
    I see cedar trees all over our town. They obviously do well in our area. I can not seem to find any for sale, but will not rule them out yet.
    I will look up the junipers.
    Bamboo....not sure what I think about that. I would have to see it used as a hedge in order to form an opinion.
    Berm?? Not sure what that is. I think its basically a hill? I don't think I have enough room for a berm to be as tall as I would want it.
    Masonry wall. That would be awesome. Sadly, not in budget... ever. I figure a living wall would be better than nothing.

    I forgot to add that this is a full sun area. Absolutely no shade at all. The 140 foot stretch runs east/west. So this wall that I want to plant will have one side facing north, and the other south.

    What about trees that can be pruned to hedges? Like the hollie and leyland cypress. Would that be ok to do under the power lines?

  • lkz5ia
    13 years ago

    The link gives some examples what bamboo hedge would look like, so can give you an idea whether you like the look or not.

    Here is a link that might be useful: hedge

  • gardningrandma
    13 years ago

    A berm is a hill, yes.
    What some have done was form a mound where they want their privacy or sound barrier where overhead lines are a concern. You could then plant something on top that does not grow as tall and still have it be effective.
    Sometimes people do this when they want to put in a privacy fence but are limited to the height of the fence.
    Although it's common (especially in Europe), I would not shear the tops off a row of trees in order to make it fit under powerlines.

    And that reminds me. Powerlines are usually located in an easement that you usually need to maintain and it looks and feels like its your property but it's really right-of-way that is fair game for being cut down or dug up when they need to replace a sewer line or put in a gas line or just for the heck of it. There may be buried utilities as well that you don't want to discover during planting. Be sure to do a utility locate before any planting.

  • conniemcghee
    13 years ago

    Hi Angie,

    I was researching fast-growing trees three years ago when we moved into a new home. Our backyard was completely exposed to everyone in the cul-de-sac behind us, and I don't love living in a fish bowl. :)

    I came up with three to try, all of which are thought of as some of the fastest-growing trees: Leyland Cypress, Thuja Green Giant Arborvitae, and Cryptomeria Yoshino. I also liked the idea of planting different species and staggering them. It gives a much more natural look, and has the advantage that if you lose one out of the group it won't look so much like grin with a missing tooth.

    I have been taking pictures of them every year to have a record of their growth rate. It's like my own little tree race. ;) If it's fast you're looking for, Leyland Cypress really does live up to its reputation.

    But if looks are a consideration, Cryptomeria Yoshino is maybe the most beautiful tree I've ever seen. There are four of these at our local ag center, and they are about 25' tall with a diameter of only about 7'. So, they're not the spreading monsters Leylands are rumored to be.

    The Cryptomerias are right behind the Leylands in growth rate. Again, planted three years ago at approximately the same size (two feet), I have a Leyland that is pushing 10' and about 4-5' wide. The Cryptomeria is up over our six foot fence. The Green Giants are coming along at about the same rate as the Cryptomerias, but seem to have a more narrow profile.

    Hope that helps! I think you should do a mix of evergreens. Just be sure to allow plenty of space...or you could plant thickly for a quick screen, and be prepared to take out a few in several years when they become crowded. Good luck!

  • gardener365
    13 years ago

    Nope, Cryptomeria's, Leyland, Green Giant, are all problematic with the mentioned power lines. Good call Gardening Grandma about researching utility lines.

    Thuja occidentalis 'Techny' is a popular rich dark-green cultivar that will grow at a decent rate (which is good) and is a good shelter for wild-life and a windbreak. I do however agree that Juniperus virginiana is a super-choice.

    You could plant (3) Techny and then a Juniperus virginiana the length of your planting. If you choose to use Techny - space them at 6' intervals. This is the correct distance for the height of the power lines, above.

    If you're not "rich" lol, Here's a wonderful nursery that sells 'Techny'... along with several other Arborvitae's. You could plant them bare-root, right now. At (100) of them you could make a double row, staggered planting. 44 bucks - 100 cuttings & no fee for shipping.

    Dax

    Here is a link that might be useful: Rens Nursery

  • gardener365
    13 years ago

    Re:
    "At (100) of them you could make a double row, staggered planting." Better yet you could plant them very-randomly three deep; come back later and saw down the ones that need removal. That's a real natural-look.

    Dax

  • gardener365
    13 years ago

    Last example of my own ramble:

    Example of staggered plantings of Thuja Arborvitae Techny:
    {{gwi:443528}}

    Dax

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    13 years ago

    Ug, ignorant parents driving through your yard to avoid traffic no doubt teaching their kids to be equally ignorant.

    - Figure out where your property line is.
    - Stick a scary looking metal pole or two in the yard every so often.
    - Find a vine to decorate/hide it. Enjoy ppl's misfortune after they trespass and hit it.

    For the tree screen I would go with the staggered plan.

    Whenever I plant alot of something at least one of them is going to die. I can never get the formal English garden thing quite right.

    So I try less formal plantings. With the staggered plan you can do that just by mixing species.

    Also if the magic xxxx plant bug from China shows up you won't loose everything in one swoop.

    Don't plant bamboo unless you are an EXPERT on the stuff and leave money behind when you die to remove it. If someone moved next to me and planted the stuff I would send them a certified letter with containment instructions just to make it easier to sue when the planter gets sick and the bamboo escapes.

    Some darned invasive Honeysuckle provides a good three season screen between myself and my neighbors. Uck, I hate removing it from the rest of my yard. In my limited experience with it the evergreen versions of this Viburnum stuff are both exotic and not quite the pain Honeysuckle is.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Evergreen Chinese Viburnum bushes

  • lkz5ia
    13 years ago

    Hi toronado, I'm suprised you don't grow bamboo already. Why wait for a neighbor, when you could be already enjoying its beauty. Having to be an expert seems to be an exaggeration. One simply has to understand running bamboo's growth habits and how to contain it. In a lawn situation, mowing can work great.

    When it comes to using plants for screens in the right zones, I really can't think of a better plant to use than bamboo. It'll be able to create a screen faster than any of the trees listed. Also, think if a storm comes through and knocks out one of the trees, then got a big hole in the screen. Even if bamboo would get wind damage like trees, they will be able to shoot up in the spring to fill in the bare spots.

  • drrich2
    13 years ago

    Figure out how tall the powerlines are and that may help narrow down choices if you plant near them.

    If you have a septic tank leach field, by chance, planting anywhere that could be an issue.

    A row or medium arborvitae, like the Emerald Green, could work. Someone mentioned Techny, which I've heard of but am less familiar with. Some may have more attractive colors; I've got some Emerald Greens going, but I've also planted a few Yellow Ribbon arborvitae, & I really like that yellow-glazed lighter green foliage I'm seeing so far.

    A mixed row may indeed be less susceptible to annihilation by a pest. For example, of a scourge of bag worms descend on the arborvitae while you're out of town for 2 weeks. A few Boulevard False Cypress, Blue Point Junipers and Hollies in the mix might provide a little consolation.

    Most holly trees are gender specific so if you want berries pick a female tree type, & also plant a male nearby. Some hollies can make berries without a male; Oakleaf Holly is one of these.

    A big factor for you may be price. That's a pretty long strip to be planting.

    Richard.

  • angies66
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thank you gardeninggrandma for bringing up the utility easements issue. I live on a corner lot. The utility easements are on the east side of my property. No easements what so ever on the "screen" side. The only power line pole sits on the NE corner, the lines just happen to go over the area that I want to plant in, ugh. Also, I did call someone out to mark for anything just in case. They said we are good to go.

    I do not like the bamboo. That one is off the list. I have a really old house that will one day have its exterior restored (been working inside the past many years) and it will need a more formal look than what the bamboo would have.

    I went to several nurseries today. I was hoping to see some of the Techny trees, I thought those sounded good. Every single person that we talked to at the nurseries recommeded Leyland Cypress. I would ask "but won't it get to tall?"......everyone of them said NO! One guy said they only get to about 20-25 feet tall here. Another lady said they get 30 feet tall. One guy said that they won't bother power lines...I'm really not sure what that meant. A couple of places also recommended the Green Giant arborvitae. Once again, saying it would only grow to 20 feet tall. Only one person suggested a holly tree. When I asked about a male for the female, she said that I did not need one. As long as a male was within a mile, it would be fine. But every one of them always first suggested the leyland cypress.

    So now I am really confused...and frustrated...and mad. Ugh!

    Another thing I noticed at all the nurseries. The tags would be different. For example, one nellie stevens holly tag read that it would be 15 - 20 feet tall...and another stores tag read 25-30 feet tall for a nellie stevens.

    I love the idea of a berm, now that I know what it is. Not sure if that much dirt is in the budget though.

    I love the idea of a mixed planting that is staggered. Or staggered with the same type throughout.

    My real love would be the hollies. I just love them.

    As for my budget. I don't really know how far it will go. I have $1000.00 set aside for this. I'll go as far as I can with it. I can always add more later. Once I figure out what kind of trees to plant I can then pick out the size. I would like for them to be at least 2 feet tall, preferably taller. Anything shorter than that will get trampled down or ran over.

    The maximum heighth for a mature tree would be 18-19 feet. We measured that up to the cable line. All the other lines are taller than that, but they are the power lines, so we figured the cable line was a good guide line.

    After the hell trip to the nurseries today, I told my husband that I was about ready to just hire a landscape designer for this. He agreed, but a few moments later said "What if they tell us to plant leyland cypress?" LOL

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    13 years ago

    That's ok. Opinions on trees are varied at nurseries too just like here. Sometimes the truth lies in the middle.

    Height is touchy. While a Redwood in its perfect spot in California just might get 200 feet commonly enough 60 or so is more common in yards.

    What I like is you have thought about it and you are coming up with a plan.

    Oh, have a look around the neighborhood and see what is growing nicely. Sometimes context clues like that are plenty helpful.

  • drrich2
    13 years ago

    It's very frustrating when height & width listings vary widely for the same plant. Thing is, some are estimates of rough size at 10 years growth. So, let's say an October Glory red maple gets 40 - 50' per a given reference. That one I wouldn't think would be in 10 years. But, how tall might it be in 100 years? And what if conditions were very good for the tree?

    I would expect trees planted close together in a fairly dense row to be somewhat shorter than those grown singly but I think Leyland Cypress or Green Giant Arborvitae are going to clear 20 feet tall either way!

    The main problem is, you get faster growth from trees with a large eventual adult size, and slower growth from trees with smaller mature size, as a rule of thumb. Compare Emerald Green Arborvitae with Green Giant Arbortivae growth rates. We're talking 6" - 1'/year vs. up to 3'/year. Big difference.

    Richard.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    13 years ago

    Just want to make sure you understand that vegetation alone will not be an effective sound block :-) That's where the suggestion for a berm or solid masonry wall comes in. Only these types of physical barriers will effectively block sound waves. Generally, the suggestion is made to 'substitute' the noise or create a pleasant sound that will disguise the noise of the football games and associated crowds - a bubbling water feature or fountain or the suserration of foliage in the wind, like what bamboo produces.

    Bamboo is an excellent screening plant and I would not discount it out of hand. The correct planting of running bamboo and proper maintenance is no more so than for any other large, fast growing plant and there are all manner of hardy clumping bamboos that act just like giant ornamental grasses - well-behaved and quite contained.

    Local nurseries should be able to make appropriate tree suggestions for you with regards to hardiness and sizes in line with powerlines, including pines that are neither too pale nor too sparse for that situation, as well as other conifers or large growing broadleaf evergreen shrubs. Layering the plant material as much as the area allows will help to deflect some of the noise as well but keep in mind that plants alone will not be entirely successful in this regard.

  • gardningrandma
    13 years ago

    Buying trees and landscaping in general can be frustrating.
    No, make that IS frustrating.

    I don't think it was mentioned but how much room have you got beneath the overhead lines? I don't recall seeing a leyland more than about 40 tall either but I do believe it would be a problem under most overhead lines that may only be 25-30 up.

    The people you are asking locally about leyland cypress may just be trying to sell you that tree because they are in stock and quite profitable. They do make a good screen but they will grow too tall for powerlines.

    The drawing Dax posted is ideal but you ONLY have 140' to screen. You don't need that many trees for a screen.

    I'm thinking something more like this...

    -----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:
    ..A..B..A..B..A..B..C..E..C..E.C..E..C.....A..B..A..B..A..B
    C....D.....C.....D..F..F..F..F..F..F..C....C..D..C..D...C..D
    -----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:-----:
    This side closer to overhead lines
    each :-----: = 14'
    A: Leyland or alternatively Japanese cedar
    B: Ruby Red Lorapetalum (not perfectly aligned with "A" but staggered)
    C: Grey owl Juniper
    D: Arizona cypress or alternatively eastern redcedar
    E: Trident Maple
    F: Nelly R Stevens holly or Foster holly

    You've got 14 trees in this drawing. Estimated at $50 each, that's $700.
    I counted 16 shrubs. At $13 each, that's roughly $200.
    That leaves you with another $100 to get some parsoni junipers to place in front of and behind the bed.

    These aren't the most creative plant selections but should be relatively easy to find and they offer some color contrast to one another. There's a few trident maples in there, another powerline safe tree just to mix things up and for seasonal interest. Long lasting red fall foliage will look nice against the holly hedge behind it. This gives all the trees lots of room to develop and grow big and healthy. Should be an effective mixed screen/border and will look like landscaping as opposed to a privacy screen. By the way a privacy screen screams out to future potential homebuyers... "There's something behind here you don't want to see!". So mix it up. Make it look natural but professional.

  • tony_o
    13 years ago

    If you'd like a few cedar trees to mix in your planting, you can have some of mine. I planted a Cedar wind break 20 some years ago, and the birds have been planting their seeds around. I'm E of Jay. I don't think we're to far from each other. You can have as many as you want.

  • angies66
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thank you everyone for the ideas. I have decided to wait to put the trees in. I was in too big of a hurry, and getting information overload, which led to frustration. Now I plan to research all the trees that everyone has suggested. I hope to get this done before our fall planting season is over, but if not, I will be ready next year.
    Thanks again.