"It was brought into Canada in the 1700s and zoomed its way south since"

I know our American neighbors like to look north and blame Canada when something bad manages to get into the US but it's unlikely Ailanthus altissima arrived this way. The Arnold Arboretum indicates the first US planting was probably in 1784 in Philadelphia via England. If it had come through Canada on its journey, it would have been seed only....Toronto to Windsor is the only region where it was hardy enough and that region was pretty frontier like in the 1780's. Not likely that the botanists of the day were planting it there.

With the fruit present on the Ailanthus there is no mistaking it for Sumac (Rhus spp.).

Thank you every ones!!! I knew Ailanthus is invasive. In the city I live (CO-zone5), I don't see them. Maybe I am not looking hard enough. Ever since I got to know about this in tree books, I had been looking for it.

So, I was so excited finding it at the neighboring college town where there are many neglected student housings with a hint of intellectual hatred for yard maintenance. But even here, I don't think they are as rampant as Oaks, Maples, Ash, and Honey Locust.

This particular one was very visible from the street I drive to work. I had to stop the car to identify it for the first time (I am novice). So, you understand it impressed me as a beautiful ornamental tree. I walked around in the neighborhood where seedlings were everywhere. But it is an area where people don't take care of yard or lawn that much. There were so many others like Box Elder and Ash as well.

Now I got scared to grow it from a seed even in a pot. The seed pods I took don't have a foul smell. ( I learned it is dioecious and female trees don't smell. ) But who knows what the sex will be if I grow from the seed :)

Posted by dash_2006 (My Page) on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 11:26

There are zone 5 regions in CO? Do you have any Sumac around?

"There are zone 5 regions in CO?"

Jujujojo, have you ever seen the USDA hardiness zone map????

"Do you have any Sumac around?"

Rhus trilobata (Skunkbush Sumac) is very common in Colorado. Rhus glabra (Smooth Sumac) is also present in multiple locations.

Posted by brandon7 7 TN (My Page) on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 12:25

I lived in South West CO for 3 years. Thank you Brandon. If that is the case, I think dash 2006 could consider Sumac first ;)

To me, it is very obvious that the poster may want to eliminate Ailanthus altissima thus creating such a post. Jujujojo........I think you are correct. smivies.........I'm not blaming Canada for anything. I'm glad a few things came through there, some of my ancestors being one of them. I took that information from the U.S.Forest service information. I have seen the source you listed as well. In that day and age, we were all pretty much subjects of the crown, or just fresh from being such and the borders were crossed hither and yon with great regularity as were goods coming in from ports of call. Certainly the government of that nation, even if it did come from there was totally blameless. It wasn't as if there were inspectors stationed there for anything other than taxation.

jujujojo,

The house I lived before (the same city) had 4~5 Staghorn Sumac trees in the back yard. I was cutting the branches to create more sunny vegetable gardens under them there. Their suckers were every where. But they were easy to pull like a baby. So they are very common and healthy in Colorado. I thought at that time they were only nuisance. Then again, I was not interested in trees in general. Now, yes, I think they are gorgeous. But still my eyes go to Ailanthus.

calliop,

I don't know why you got the idea of me having it and getting rid of it. I had never seen Ailanthus till this summer. You see if you are not interested, trees are all looking the same. I was fascinated with it by first reading the book called "The Urban Tree Books" by Arthur Plotnik. He described it very well about invasive nature, silk worm food in China, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn (I have not read this one yet)". And when I saw it for the first time this summer, I felt I was in heaven :) I thought I should steal one of those suckers (I didn't).

Now, thanks to all your experts, I might put the seed pod in a pot to see if it will germinate. But, I don't recommend it to anyone, never :)

calliop,

I don't know why you got the idea of me having it and getting rid of it.

Dash, you seemed to imply that you already understood it's nature and stated you took seeds and asked about planting it. I am sorry .......given that, it struck me that you were trying to stir some responses. Given how disliked this tree is with anyone serious about trees it will. Once in awhile, with some regularity, someone will come on and troll about paulownia and the threads get immense. Ditto Bradford pear and ditto ailanthus. The information on its invasive nature is all over the web, and I just couldn't believe anyone would even go there with this horrid tree. If you are innocent, I certainly misjudged you and am sorry.

The post was labeled as "political taunt" by Brandon and thus it is deleted.

This post was edited by jujujojo on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 21:28

Jujujojo,

It seems obvious that calliope's text was a quote from the previous post. Yes, it probably should have been italicized or in quotes or something, but it's not that hard to figure out.

Also, please stop posting political taunts in this forum. It's certainly not the first time you've done so, even when there was no apparent reason, in the rest of the thread, to do so. I, for one, find it highly inappropriate!

Posted by brandon7 7 TN (My Page) on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 21:21

I am not posting political taunt by my standard. It was meant to be a humor. If there is a big political taunt here, that is this very thread.

This post was edited by jujujojo on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 22:42

If you want something that looks like Ailanthus but isn't and don't want to substitute with Rhus (Sumac), why don't you try Japanese Walnut (Juglans ailantifolia)?

smivies,

Yes, I love Black Walnut (Juglans nigra) I have got to know this summer. I have not seen Japanese Walnut (Juglans ailantifolia) yet, but I assume they are the same shape and statue? Does the name ailantifolia indicate Ailanthus like?

Regarding Black Walnut, I was also thinking that the leaves are very similar to that of Ailanthus. Probably I can't yet identify between them if I see young trees. It has a good size nut and sturdy trunk with a masculine aura instead of very showy seed pods and some bad character in Ailanthus (like James Dean's Mom of the movie "East of Eden" :). Sorry I talk too much.

The one I got to know this summer, though, was dropping the nuts on the side walk and making a dark sticky mess there. People were complaining about the side walk sticking to their sneakers. Is this nut falling before maturity natural? Or squirrels were eating it and dropping the mess? I guess the latter is more like it.

I saw other two Black Walnut specimens at the different location. They were huge to the point of overwhelming! I will be very happy if I can plant one of these magnificent walnuts. Heart breaking sad good bye to Ailanthus!

Easy way to identify when young is just rub fingers on them and the smell will tell you which is which.

juju, this is what I was thinking of:

Here is a link that might be useful: Bonsailanthus

ikz5ia - I'm interested in what you say about the smell. I have read on GW that it is a smell of peanuts. I had never noticed this and the other day I tried very hard to get some kind of scent off an Ailanthus leaf. I couldn't smell a thing and I do have a very good sense of smell. Do you think it only has this scent in hot, sunny weather, as is the case with some other trees?

There are several big old Ailanthus in my city and you are right - they are very attractive. As yet they seldom self sow here and are not a problem. They are, however beginning to pop up frequently around London and are creeping outwards from there. So we are on the look out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ailanthus

Posted by brandon7 7 TN (My Page) on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 12:25

Brandon, I am fascinated by Rhus trilobata (Skunkbush Sumac). I know skunks have a unique scent even when they are not spraying. I find the scent somewhat resembles cinnamon :) Have you ever smelled R. trilobata? Could you describe it?

Posted by florauk 8/9 (My Page) on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 16:22

It appears that the UK and France are more densely populated than America. In American cities, Ailanthus mirror any economic downturn. They pop up on abandoned properties and halted development projects. These properties could be abandoned for 10, 50 or more years. If there are many such situations, the plant tends to reproduce. In cold climate, it does take a few years for a seedling to reach 2 meters height. Hence, if the community of a city is thriving with people around, Ailanthus do not appear to be a problem. This is just my opinion. If this is too political, I will delete it.

@jujujojo

It's a reasonable observation but I believe it is not population density dependent. Urban neglect is tied to the economic health of a community. While cyclical economic trends can expand and contract areas of urban neglect, median income is a better indicator.
Your assertion that the UK or France suffer less from urban neglect is likely a result of your personal observation...that you are very familiar poor and disadvantaged neighborhoods in cities you live or work in but less so in cities you visit occasionally or while on holiday.
For every downtrodden neighborhood you can identify in an American city, there will be a similarly disadvantaged one in a large French or UK city.

Posted by smivies z5b ontario (My Page) on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 18:58

I am not familiar with Canada. The Canadian cities I have visited are well off, and the Canadians appear to be calm and international :)

For your comment, for the disadvantaged French or UK cities, I would wonder:

Are there Ailanthus seedlings poping up in abandoned backyards? If not, why?

Break a branch to detect the aroma of ailanthus. Or somehow abrade the bark where it is thin. I was cutting some out where they'd invaded under the kickboards of a greenhouse and it almost gagged me. Nasty.

"I am not familiar with Canada. The Canadian cities I have visited are well off, and the Canadians appear to be calm and international :)"

Well, from your perspective, we are international.

Ailanthus is not the only indicator species of urban neglect. Acer negundo, Ulmus pumila, and Ulmus americana are other examples in North America. I assure you that every city experiences the same things....it just doesn't have to be Ailanthus.

In both London and Paris, Ailanthus is an issue as it is in Toronto, Canada. In my city, the 'only' Ailanthus is a 30' rapidly growing male on the local University campus. It likely arrived as a seed stuck to one of the 15,000 students, many of them from Toronto. In this city, the indicator of urban neglect is Acer negundo, followed closely by Ulmus americana and Juglans nigra (we have lots of squirrels).

Posted by smivies z5b ontario (My Page) on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 22:08

I thought Ulmus americana is a rare species, no?

Posted by smivies z5b ontario (My Page) on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 22:08

Also, how did the Ailanthus seed stick onto a student? Was it in the hair?

How would I know?...it's just speculation. Large urban campus located 2-1/2 drive from Toronto where Ailanthus is a problem. Many thousands of students make the trip and some of them do it weekly. There are no other Ailanthus in the downtown (or the city as far as I know) except that particular one on campus, growing against a 2' retaining wall.

Posted by smivies z5b ontario (My Page) on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 22:58

Ok, I see. Are there many Ulmus americana near you?

Posted by smivies z5b ontario (My Page) on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 22:08

In my city, the 'only' Ailanthus is a 30' rapidly growing male on the local University campus.

I did not know that Ailanthus have male and female trees. This explains one observation: Ailanthus is widely used as street trees in China today. But I never see any seeds. Now, I realize that only male trees are used.

American Elm is extremely common through out its range...especially in disturbed, young successional, and urban landscapes. The young trees are highly competitive, grow rapidly, and bear lots of seed before dying of DED between 15-30 years of age. There are still a few mature trees left either because of isolation from the Elm Bark Beetle, natural resistance to DED, or some other lucky circumstance.

Ok...this thread is OFFICIALLY way off topic. I'll wait for a new thread to answer any non-Ailanthus questions.

Posted by calliope 6 (My Page) on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 20:19

You confirmed a behavior I observed: when people are around, they tend to remove the seedlings. When you cut your lawn, clean your yard, etc, you actually remove the seedlings. People tend not to allow large trees to just grow anywhere in their territory, especially when they interfere with order. That is not the case in many yards of, say a well known example, Detroit :)

jujujojo - I believe the spread of Ailanthus in the UK is entirely governed by the fact that major cities have warmer microclimates than the countryside and smaller towns where the seed can ripen. It has little to do with urban decay and a lot to do with urban warmth.

Many plants which self sow in the US seldom do so here because the seed doesn't ripen - good examples are Hibiscus syriacus and Wisteria.

The chief coloniser of derelict buildings and land here is Buddleja, not Ailanthus.

Posted by florauk 8/9 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 17, 13 at 17:09

How interesting. I don't think Buddleja behaves that way in North America at all. It is almost unimaginable. Of course, I am no expert. Maybe smivies could come out and comment again :)

Smivies, are there any Buddleja sticking on them students :)

On the other hand, cities have "heat island effect". When a city goes from thriving to "abandoned", measures of temperatures also drop. Your assertion is not necessarily in contradiction with my hypothesis.

This post was edited by jujujojo on Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 15:08

I'm quoting from Plant Invaders of Mid-Atlantic Natural Areas put out by Nat'l Park Svce & Fish & Wildlife.
Widely distributed accross the United States, Tree of Heaven occurs in 42 states, from Maine to Florida and west to California. It is an extremely common tree in urban areas where it can cause damage to sewers and structures but poses a greater environmental threat because of its invasiveness in cultivated fields and natural habitats. A prolific seeder, Tree of Heaven grows vigorously, establishing dense stands that displace native plants. It produces chemicals that kill or prevent other plants from growing in its vicinity.
I have seen TOH growing happily in some of the most inhospitable places. One example is xeric, serpentine barrens with their toxic, high magnesium soils. Seed will become airborne and sprout and grow in air conditioning units. Below pic is TOH and its companion Paulowia in an ancient flint furnace in Maryland, no where close to a city.
Its sort of like a Norway rat in tree form.
{{gwi:375349}}

ikz5ia and floroak,

Today, I sniffed a cut leaf of young Ailanthus like sucker of height 2'. It smelled very strong like Peanut Butter. I loved the smell. But this specimen was hardly in the neighborhood of the matured Ailanthus. I walked another 1/4 mile to smell the adult female leaves of Ailanthus. It did have a very slight smell of peanut butter, almost no smell. I looked around near by there. I found a small seedling, 8" tall, of Ailanthus or Sumack like seedling. It smelled strong like peanut butter.

Then, I realized the small seedling of Honey Locust of about 5" smelled exactly like peanut butter. The smell was kind of intoxicating peanut butter with a hint of vanilla. Then, I tried to smell adult leaf of Honey Locust. It did not have much smell.

My question is :
Does the small seedling of some trees smell very strong and it is always like peanut butter and vanilla? Idon't think all the seedlings of any species smell like peanut butter. I tried at random any seedlings around and some of them definitely smells not like peanut butter.

Smell or fragrance is definitely tricky subject because I know different people describe (or smell) very differently. But the seedling of Honey Locust and the seedling of Ailanthus like plant smelled exactly the same, wonderful peanut butter and hint of vanilla.

Maybe I haven't understood your hypothesis. My assertion is that the heat is what allows Ailanthus to grow. Therefore, if the temp goes down in a derelict area that would militate AGAINST Ailanthus, not encourage it. And London is the main centre for Ailanthus in the UK - a city that is definitely not abandoned.

Buddleja is invasive in parts of the US too.

Here it is, along with one of our very few Ailanthus seedlings in my city. The house is not abandoned. It's an office and this is their basement light well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Buddleja in the US

Posted by sam_md z7 MD (My Page) on Tue, Sep 17, 13 at 20:28

Sam, your Ailanthus look attractive. Is that an epiphytic cultivar? I could envision the male trees in vertical gardens :)

Second, if you feel Ailanthus trees are like rats. Do you have any valid method to eliminate them, at all, that will not break the bank?

Posted by florauk 8/9 (My Page) on Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 14:25

I see what you are saying now. You are correct. It seems the summer of the UK is too cool for their seeds to ripe.

This post was edited by jujujojo on Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 15:27

Posted by florauk 8/9 (My Page) on Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 14:25

Here is how your original long sentence was misread by me:

"I believe the spread of Ailanthus in the UK is entirely governed by the fact that major cities have warmer microclimates than the countryside and smaller towns where the seed can ripen."

My association of sections in your sentence was against your original meaning.

BTW, I am not sure if you have seen the Ailanthus in the US. Your picture looks a little different.

This post was edited by jujujojo on Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 15:23

To my senses, not really peanut butter or I would make a Ailanthus and jam sandwich. Sometimes good plants have bad smells, tomatoes are the same way.

Posted by lkz5ia z5 west iowa (My Page) on Thu, Sep 19, 13 at 11:03

One of the most controversial smell is that of a Durian. Many people find the smell offensive, putrid, resembling underwear, socks. Some people find the smell marvelous, wonderful, honey, attractive. They cannot agree with each other :)

kind of like skunk and perfume eh?

lkz5ia, jujujojo,

Today, I walked across the campus and found a few Ailanthus clustered in one spot. I snapped a leaf of a sucker coming from this cluster. I smelled the familiar peanut butter. I give up.

I would like to smell Durian. So far, I have not encountered a bad smell of trees. They all are, one way or the other, sweet and remind me of berries and fruits (and peanut butter).

But, compared with the roses, tree sniffing may not have devoted followers, I guess. I could be wrong, though.

hmm.

Jujujojo,

One easy way to tell sumac apart - at least this time of year...

Sumac turns gorgeous colors in fall - many are so red this year they're almost purple.

Tree of heaven has no fall color whatsoever - I've seen them turn a light yellow-green, but usually they just kinda drop after a couple freezes.

If you wanna smell a durian just leave out some rotting onions,anchovies, and sweet bananas. It's a taste sensation for some, but not me! True, there are worse smells...decomposing flesh comes to mind. Enjoy!

i personally love the smell but this tree is extremely invasive it reproduces through the seed but also new trees sprout from the roots witch run very long. i have a bunch in my backyard, and i had no clue what they were until i went to use it in my compost pile since there was so much. I ripped up the leaves and smelled a strong peanut butter smell, and had to research what i was dealing with.

it was brought over from Asia and is used to treat baldness, to mental illness. im going to be doing some essential oil extraction of this tree to test the effect of topical applications, eating it, and smoking it.

{DO NOT ATTEMPT THE SMOKING TEST YOURSELF IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG IT WILL GO WRONG VERY FAST}

Durian tastes like crap....just like mushy onions

Looking for another reason to remove TOH? Spotted Lanternfly is new to our area. THIS ARTICLE describes the threat to desirable plants from this insect. Removal of TOH could help in its control. Have you seen Spotted Lanternfly?

Was bumping this thread really necessary? It takes a lot of scrolling down to get to the new information. Anyhow, interesting to know there's yet another reason to control this garbage tree.

Meggie declares this one "A bad bug" LOL. You simply have to chuckle at this YOUTUBE Apparently Spotted Lanternfly becoming a problem in Berks County and several other Penna. counties. P. mantis really go after them.