I got one of these from the local arboretum and grew it for years.

Long enough to see it was actually an example of Carrierea calycina.

The undivided leaves was the first hint. Followed by the cup-shaped, white flowers and spindle-like woody fruits.

â¢Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on Tue, Oct 28, 14 at 20:17

So, you bought a wrongfully labeled tree from your local arboretum? How is that possible? I would imagine they have teams of experts in an arboretum ...

Very few arboretums in the world have "teams of experts". Even many well-known arboretums have lots of plants in their own collection mislabeled. I can imagine all kinds of ways that Bboy's situation could have possibly occurred (seed batch mix-up, label/tag mix-up, misidentification at any of many stages of the process, intentional misrepresentation by supplier, etc).

â¢Posted by brandon7 7 TN (My Page) on Tue, Oct 28, 14 at 22:56

I know you work very hard. Please enjoy some close up flowers.

So we're absolutely sure that this tree is not a potential invasive spreader in warmer climates (not to mention temperate ones)?

Reading the description - large ornamental leaves, decorative flower clusters, coveted hardwood for furniture etc. it reminds me of a certain other tree from China that's become quite an (unintended) fixture of the landscape. Wait, the name will come to me....;)

Eric as a very general rule, it seems things from weedy families have a better chance of becoming weeds. I suspect Paulownia was much more widespread in China than this, which is in some strange off-on-its own family. Foxgloves definitely can be weedy, I had a big problem with naturalized D. purpureas in one of my beds until I finally got rid of them. Besides it probably isn't hardy enough...most "plants native to China", broadly speaking again, are zn (8)-9-10 hardy, not (5)-6-7 as is Paulownia.

BTW it is beautiful - THANK YOU for posting jujujojo. FWIW, this looks more spectacular in pictures to me than the legendary Emmenopterys. It probably isn't as hardy, though.

Not sure if you saw my other recent thread. If you see any Dalbergia hupehana on your travels, please post pictures of mature specimens.
I was under the impression that because these are super rare in the West, not just the US (RGBE multisite search engine finds no hits) that they are super rare in China. But I found turn of the century (1906) botanical journals in google books saying they were relatively common in some parts of China.

This post was edited by davidrt28 on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 8:57

eric_oh and davidrt28, Bretschneidera sinensis Hemsley is a very unique plant and it is endangered. The entire family has this one plant.

Here is a link from the IUCN Red List http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/32324/0

Here is the conversation and reintroduction project by BGCI: http://www.bgci.org/china_en/2133/

Some remaining trees produce viable seeds and seedlings. But the tree is declining over all, even without human persecution. I would think it is unscientific to compare these to paulownia. What do you think?

As for trees producing expensive woods, such as Dalbergia hupehana, I don't believe there is any unguarded mature tree within easy reach.

This post was edited by jujujojo on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 11:12

"I would think it is unscientific to compare these to paulownia. What do you think? "

Well that was kind of my point.

Hopefully they are able to preserve this rare species.

Maybe the Dalbergia were greatly harvested in the past 100 years. (versus the perception of commoness in my 1906 source). But maybe you will see it in a botanical garden.

As in the West China has large areas of severe deforestation, with some parts formerly containing unusually high numbers of species - when a valley is set on fire to make pasture or clear cut for wood in a previously intact Chinese temperate forest the threat to plant species conservation may even be comparable to slash and burn agriculture or hardwoods extraction in a climax tropical rain forest. So it shouldn't be surprising when a cultivated Chinese species is no longer seen much, if at all in the wild. Prime examples that spring to mind: well-known, much admired and frequently planted Acer griseum is said to be quite endangered in its habitat, as is Stewartia sinensis; Rosa mulliganii does not even appear in efloras Flora of China - although it may have been a chance hybrid that happened to be seen in the wild and introduced to the west (it produces some flowers with one extra petal, a sign of hybridity in otherwise single-flowered roses).

This post was edited by bboy on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 13:07

Bboy, A. griseum is not endangered in China. However, it is noted that wild trees seldom produce viable seeds.

As for Bretschneidera tree, it appears to be hanging on its last thread in all known habitats. The tree also has a very bizarre genetic heritage.

bboy, what do you think about a monotypic family ... a family usually covers many species?

This post was edited by jujujojo on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 15:55

â¢Posted by davidrt28 7 (My Page) on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 11:55

Well, just 20 years ago, the most prominent river dolphin, the Yangtz White river dolphin aka the Baiji was abundant. In the 1950s, the population was estimated at 6,000 animals, but declined rapidly over the subsequent five decades. Only a few hundred were left by 1970. Then the number dropped down to 400 by the 1980s and then to 13 in 1997 when a full-fledged search was conducted.

The only known related species from the Miocene is Parapontoporia - an extinct genus of dolphin that lived off the Californian coast from the Late Miocene until the genus' extinction during the Pliocene.

"Witness to Extinction: How We Failed To Save The Yangtze River Dolphin", an account of the 2006 baiji survey by Samuel Turvey, the lead author of the Biology Letters paper, was published by Oxford University Press in autumn 2008. This book investigated the baiji's probable extinction within the wider-scale context of how and why international efforts to conserve the species had failed.

This post was edited by jujujojo on Sat, Nov 1, 14 at 16:20

Very attractive flower display!

Interesting that at least one nursery in the US (Hawksridge) and one nursery in Canada (Piroche) have offered this plant commercially in the past. I don't see it currently available anywhere.

â¢Posted by brandon7 7 TN (My Page) on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 21:15

Is it legal to commercially sell an endangered species from IUCN Red List? My guess is not.

It's legal as long as they are not wild-collected. Sale of "artificially propagated" (cultivated) plants and seeds of endangered species are not prohibited by the Endangered Species Act.

â¢Posted by brandon7 7 TN (My Page) on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 22:35

If that is the case they may either have crop failure or it turns out that they have the wrong plant.

I considered that wrong plant idea too. I don't know where Bboy's plant originated from, but I can imagine it might have started out from one of the two above sources. And, if that did turn out to be the case, that might be a good reason that whichever source it was no longer has it.

I wish I had one of these...and that it would grow here.

Piroche made contacts in China from which they bought numbers of different kinds of native trees and shrubs that were already under cultivation in Chinese nurseries, imported this stock to their location near Vancouver - for eventual re-sale to North American retailers. So until they closed after an unfavorable SOD inspection - that is what I heard/read the problem was, anyway - for some years it was possible to walk into retail garden centers buying from them and browse varying assortments of previously more or less effectively unseen wild Chinese woody plant species.

Most of what they listed was actually a bit on the tender side but a certain percentage had definite potential, at least for here in USDA 8 and up.

The misidentified Carrierea seedlings were I believe started at the Douglas Conservatory of what is now called the Seattle Botanic Garden, sent over to the Pat Calvert volunteer greenhouse at the affiliated arboretum, where I saw them for sale and bought one. They were small enough at the time that it might have seemed possible compound leaves would be produced later.

The defunct Piroche web site lingers on, where we can read:

BRETSCHNEIDERA (Bretschneideraceae)

Bretschneidera sinensis

WILD DRAGON⢠SERIES

H:10-20m Z:7

L/U: street tree or solitary

Rare, deciduous tree with alternate, compound, 40-80cm long leaves. Pink flowers with purple-red anthers in spring. Winter buds enlarge in mid-March, leaves unfold early-April. Fruit ripens in October. Deep-rooted and wind-resistant. Selected and introduced by Piroche Plants, 1995. (Southern & Central China)

This post was edited by bboy on Thu, Oct 30, 14 at 21:15

The RGBE multisite search shows no living holdings. Translation: pretty damn rare in the West.

GIven that a mix up at a respected non-profit institution already occurred, I would think skepticism as to whether Piroche had the real thing is warranted.
BTW thanks for the story on their shutdown, bboy. It underscores what I've said earlier, that wholesale nurseries have faced condemnation because of SOD problems in the past, which I think someone else had broadly characterized as being alarmist. The real truth is that the industry is doing it's darndest not to alarm people.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://rbg-web2.rbge.org.uk/multisite/multisite3.php

Not that I saw and verified everything on their list, but I otherwise never encountered anything that would give the impression that Piroche was ever being supplied the wrong items by the Chinese. Nor should it be assumed there was any connection between the Douglas Conservatory plants - which were seedlings raised by them - and stock sold by Piroche.

I have no notes or photographs but I am pretty sure I saw the Piroche Bretschneidera at one or two outlets here - producing the characteristic compound foliage. If it was misidentified it was another tree with a generally similar appearance, and not the Carrierea.

â¢Posted by davidrt28 7 (My Page) on Fri, Oct 31, 14 at 12:00

â¢Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on Fri, Oct 31, 14 at 12:16

â¢Posted by brandon7 7 TN (My Page) on Thu, Oct 30, 14 at 20:35

At least one small plant of Taiwan strain (Whitish pale blooms) was blooming on April 30, 2013 in the botanical garden of Tokyo university (bottom right picture).

http://www.bg.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/koishikawa-old/kaika/Kaika_pages/2013/20130425/20130425.html

side view

{{gwi:447346}}

small tree showing red leaves

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close up inflorescences

{{gwi:447348}}

â¢Posted by davidrt28 7 (My Page) on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 8:56

BTW it is beautiful - THANK YOU for posting jujujojo. FWIW, this looks more spectacular in pictures to me than the legendary Emmenopterys.

Dave, see this: https://jcraulstonarboretum.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/plant-of-the-day-emmenopterys-henryi/

PDF file document: http://www.iucnredlist.org/sotdfiles/bretschneidera-sinensis.pdf

Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA) , thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIq1OqQx3b4

Good series