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dbarronoss

New house without trees

dbarron
9 years ago

Hi, I'm moving into a house in NW Arkansas where in 2009 we had a ice storm, which fell on the roof. Perhaps for revenge, the homeowner apparently cut down every single tree on their lot.

I'm thinking about trying to get a few trees in the ground this fall, planting after I take possession and after leaf drop. The ground seldom freezes in Arkansas...so planting time should be fine. I tend to highly favor native to Arkansas plants...so take that into mind, please. I also favor something that either flowers or has attractive fall color and little mess (ie no silver maples to strew limbs and seeds everywhere). Yes, we all want the perfect tree (lol).

The front yard faces south and has little to no overhanging shade from neighbor trees, but I think I would like smaller trees or even possibly an overgrown shrub. I just feel like the lots are too small for a BIG tree. I was tentatively thinking about maybe American Smoke tree there ? But open to suggestions.

Back yard has much more room, and originally had at least 3-4 mature trees from the rotting stumps. I have been thinking just barely, about maybe a smaller oak and a chalk maple or something similar ? Open to suggestions here too, I haven't even narrowed down the oak (lol) even in my mind.

So someone blow my mind away with such a wonderful suggestion that I have to take it!

Thanks
Danny

Comments (20)

  • j0nd03
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Danny, you have a tremendous selection of trees that will flourish in NWA!

    Shrubs I would consider: beautyberry (does absolutely stellar!), clethra 'ruby spice', fothergilla 'blue shadow' and 'mt airy', many rose varieties

    Smallish native trees: yellowwood, smoketree (several different cultivars will do excellent for you), musclewood, c. florida dogwoods and c. alternifolia dogwoods (c. drumondii has been extremely resilient and drought tolerant for me as well), a. pavia red buckeye, fringetree, magnolias both deciduous and evergreen, redbuds like 'rising sun'

    Large trees for the back: q alba, ALL of the sugar/red/hybrid maple cultivars, q coccinea, nuttall oak, swamp chestnut oak, liriodendron tulip trees, blackgum, pines

    The list grows exceptionally large when you add in the exotics like acer griseum and triflorum and throw in some gingko's and spruces!

    You, Sir, have one heck of task narrowing your list down!

    Edit: I forgot to mention, the main nursery I do business with up there is Westwoods but there are a couple other good ones. Also, pineridgegardens is a fantastic Arkansas native nursery in London, AR about 1.5 hr drive from NWA. She has open house dates on her website for this fall as well as an online catalog. You can place an order over the phone with her as well if you can not make the trip to see her.

    This post was edited by j0nd03 on Tue, Oct 28, 14 at 11:40

  • wisconsitom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey d, I'm not going to get into listing plants that you already know about, but I would like to possibly clear up one misperception about trees/shrubs, etc. Simply put, designers and property owners sometimes make the mistake in thinking small space must mean only small-stature plants are appropriate. Yet in many cases, just the opposite can be true. Here's why: Let's say you have an oak tree. Doesn't matter which oak, just one of the ones that gets to be a big, full-size tree. In plan view, that is, looking down at the property from above, when a designer, LA, etc. looks at the circle which represents that tree's future crown spread, it erroneously appears as though the entire space is being taken up by that tree. But in actuality, down at the human level, all you've got is a trunk. In effect, such large-growing trees end up being the "ceiling" for your landscape, most of the plant being up and over our heads.

    Now take that shrub, or small-growing ornamental tree. Once again in plan view, it looks like ti will take up very much less space than the big oak (or maple, or elm.....etc). But in fact, all of its crown is down at our level, so in effect, it is taking up more space, not less.

    We've been seeing this kind of faulty thinking all over the country as folks move into ever-larger houses, but with ever-smaller trees being placed into the yards.

    Not saying you''re personally guilty of any of this. Just want to add something for you and any other readers to consider.

    +oM

  • drrich2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When you look at oaks, be mindful that some hold their dead leaves through winter (which I like), and some shed them early (which some other people like). My swamp white oak & nutall shed them, the 2 pin oak (I think) and a shumard at a place I used to live held them.

    I don't know about north west Arkansas, but southern Arkansas can get some really hot, badly dry droughts going. Might consider drought tolerance as a factor.

    Richard.

  • dbarron
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tom, it's information (which I already knew)...but information is welcome ;)
    Jon, I work for Pine Ridge (web site) (lol)...so I know it well. Thank you for that listing of ideas.
    Richard, I wish I knew the house terrain better, but I want to get something in. Right now, it looks wet (lol), but then we've had rain.

  • j0nd03
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OMG WE HAVE A PRG HOOKUP, ARKTREES!!!

    LOL you pretty much have access to EVERYTHING you could want native related. I'm sure MaryAnn will have some ideas for you if you get a chance to ask her. Holy moley, you ask for advice and you are sitting on the native mother lode hahaha

    She has some rare stuff like a blue fruited hawthorn among others that would be very interesting to grow. Her retail site is covered in red buckeye and dogwoods, mainly alternifolia, all growing wild.

    I am growing about a dozen or so plants from her ATM. The c. drumondii I mentioned that have been soooo drought tolerant came from her. They are 4 years old (3 years in the ground) and almost 10' tall. Flowered this year for the first time. I have had GREAT growth the first year right out of the gate with all of her plants. She also threw in a free native crabapple that has grown like a weed and should hopefully flower soon.

    This post was edited by j0nd03 on Tue, Oct 28, 14 at 14:57

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nyssa sylvatica is called black gum up here. This time of year they are looking EXCELLENT. They are polite as can be but do not flower much.

    My neighbor's Liriodendron tulipifera (tulip tree, tulip poplar, tulip magnolia, it has a billion slang names) is a great tree for spots with enough room. It gets some of my favorite individual flowers and some like his have good fall color. But yeah, they get huge trunks which is a plus for me in the right spot.

  • dbarron
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, I've known Mary Ann for 15 years, we're both members of the Native Plant Society, and I've bought from her that long too (lol).
    I have a tulip poplar where I live now...but I feel it's not what I want for the new house (messy leaves, sticky sap sometimes from aphids, and too tall)...lovely tree in the right place though.
    I've been watching the black gums take on fall color and I *do* like it. I tried to grow one in Oklahoma though and lost it (too wet).

    This post was edited by dbarron on Tue, Oct 28, 14 at 17:37

  • poaky1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dbarron, If you can get more info on whether you are zone 6 or 7 you will get more specific advise. If you are 7 you can grow Live oaks. In your area a Q., Fusiformis or Q. Virginiana. Better yet a cross between the 2. I love live oaks, but my zone 6 is a bit too cold for me to grow one without damage in the worst of winters. They are wonderful trees, so I usually recommend them to those who may be able to grow them. Lucky folks they are. The "late drop" live oak from Mossy oaks natives nursery, is a likely a hybrid of the 2 (Q. Fusiformis and Q. Virginiana) but, It is a guess, because they are hardier. I had one survive in winter 2012-2013. But last winter was brutal, and they died to the ground, but came up from the roots to the same height as before the top die-back. So, long story short, this particular Live oak may be great for your area. If not there are lots of other oaks you can plant. If you are a solid zone 7, you can plant any live oak you want. I would plant at least one if I were you. Totally your choice of course.

  • dbarron
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm 6b, forget live oaks as a reliable plant. I had then in zone 7 and they were well, problematical. One doesn't really want trees that die back to the ground. I love the weird and unusual and I have to try everything, but I do learn :)
    I will have a sabal plam though...I have it already. I'm sure I'll add a needle palm to that by next year. Those seem more reliable than the live oak.

  • j0nd03
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are you open to cultivars of species native to Arkansas or just straight species? Also if you have some pics of the property, that might help with specific suggestions.

  • drrich2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The 'wildfire' version of Black Gum offers some nice spring color; from what I hear perhaps at the cost of some of the fall color?

    Tulip Poplar seems brown to have the leaves yellow & die in drought, more so than some other trees.

    If you aren't stuck on natives, I saw what I believe to be Lacebark Elm at Nashville Zoo and the peeling bark trunks were beautiful and fairly striking.

    If we knew a target height for your backyard trees it might help. How tall was that 'too tall' Tulip Poplar that left you not wanting one at the new place?

    Richard.

  • dbarron
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My current tulip poplar is probably about 50-60 feet and it's less than 20 years old. I know eventual height is up to 90 feet, it grows very fast.

    I do remember the old adage, grows fast...dies fast. The house (if you remember) has been severely damaged by falling trees in an ice storm, I want to avoid that.

  • dbarron
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The plot thickens...someone on Flickr just identified some mushroom clusters I had photographed all over Springdale (and in the new yard) as honey mushrooms (looks like it to me)...so I now need to consider armillaria resistance too.

    Luckily several of our suggestions do appear on lists I've found.

  • poaky1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dbarron, You can grow a Sabal Palm there? I have one I am trying out close to my house this winter. It is a Needle palm I believe. I am not sure without looking it up, though.

  • zzackey
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Buckeyes get quite tall. 20-25 feet tall. Plus they prefer a shady location. At least the ones that grow here do. The flowers of them attract humming birds.

  • dbarron
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, I had a fruiting sabal at my house in Oklahoma about 100 miles west.
    The needle palm grew well and was a nice clump when I moved away (but not yet flowering). It grows MUCH slower.

  • arktrees
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well I'm late to this party. Been too freak'in busy as of late and distracted. As Jon says, you really get the best of both worlds climate wise. There are some years that are just plain tough (i.e. 2011 and 2012) though rare to date, and late freezes can be an issue as well. IMHO, at this point it's more about finding your soil characteristics, and defining what plant characteristics you like. From there we can work of appropriate species/cultivars, That said, seeing as you are basically in my backyard, I will list some things that I have observed locally, and what I like best.

    As for Oaks, nearly any are great here (sorry poaky, Live Oaks are death waiting to happen here). I would avoid Pin Oak. Simply way way way overplanted. My local favs are White (alba), Scarlet (coccinea), and Nuttall (texana). Also perhaps select Shumard and Northern Red Oaks, but their fall color is far less reliable, though individual trees can be great. All do fabulous here (once established) with excellent fall color.

    Maples..... take your pick! Sugar is native to the area (no matter what the maps say, they are very common in the surrounding hills) and do well. Cultivars of Red and Freeman Maple are the most commonly planted, but lots of Sugar Maples are as well. Go to Fayetteville, and mature Sugar Maples everywhere. I have Sugar, Chalk, Freeman, Paperbark, and Triflorum maple. All seem to love the climate. My Paperbark and Triflorum in all day sun, and grow much much faster than most claim is possible. IMHO, they grow much faster because my climate is very similar to their native climate. Note, I do water in especially dry weather as my trees aren't in native habitat being in a yard, but I'm reducing this since they have grown so much (which was the goal of watering was to reduce stress and increase growth). If you plant one exotic Maple, I STRONGLY suggest the Triflorum. Our has grown very fast, grows early in spring with unique very bright emerald green leaves, and AWESOME Orange in fall. And because ours is growing so fast the exfoliation of the bark is fantastic.

    Other trees. Much agree with the Yellowwood (several nice sized ones in Fayetteville parks), American Smoketree if you have a particularly dry site, 'Appalachian Red' Redbud has a flower color like you have never seen. Blackgum as noted, though I would go with better fall color over Wildfire. WF is very nice, and grows fast, but others have a much better WOW in fall. Might consider growing from local seed from the surrounding hills, as they are mighty impressive. Many other species. Maybe Sassafras, Serviceberry, Chalk Maple, Viburnium for the front?

    Conifers do well though some require some care or special selection. The University of Arkansas had some 100'+ Norway Spruce (that they killed with construction a couple years ago), Blue Spruce (pungens), as well as some others. I have a small Picea omorika that did well over the summer and should be fine, and I acquired a couple Picea glauca that I fully expect to do well. Cedrus do well, along with Juniper, Pinus (densiflora 'Golden Ghost' or similar if you don't mind an exotic), any Ginkgo, and even some Firs (Abies sp) if grafted to proper root stock (again exotic, but some are just too nice to pass up).

    I know you said you prefer natives, but some of the exotics are just too much to pass up.

    In any event, I will be glad to help you if I can.

    Arktrees

  • j0nd03
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is my c. drumondii starting the color change. It certainly does naturalize an area with suckers, though

  • arktrees
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Forgot to include earlier. White River Nursery on the SE side of Fayetteville on Highway 16 has a good number of native species available. In particular they have Yellowwood and Kentucky Coffee Trees among others. Probable worth your time to check out what they have.

    Arktrees

  • poaky1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dbarron, okay, so you haven't tried the palm at this new house yet, but your old place was okay with them. Well, good luck you are 6b at the new place, just may work. Yeah, Arktrees, they are death waiting to happen here also, (live oaks) I still have one from last year, I haven't planted a new one yet, it came back from the roots, it's gonna croak, I have finally learned, it took a few years, but I've learned.