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shiltsy

Renewing our woods

shiltsy
9 years ago

We purchased a 3 acre lot earlier this year for a future homesite. About half of the lot is open field and half is a wooded area that runs along the back and one side of the lot. It's a beautiful site on a hill and we are very excited to build.

One issue is that the woods is really "scraggly". I'll try to describe it:

1. Lots of white pines spread throughout. Mostly a pole with small amount of foliage at the very top.

2. Some spots are VERY thick with underbrush. I haven't ID'd the brush yet, but I believe there is a lot of invasive buckthorn in the area.

3. The primary deciduous tree is ash. There are some huge ones and a lot of dead ones that are either laying down or standing dead.

4. I don't think I've found a single oak or maple yet.

5. The field hasn't been touched for a few years and the ash have seeded themselves throughout. There are literally thousands of ash small saplings that have filled the open area.

So, I'm not sure where to start on a project to beautify the woods. We'd love to see it more full/lush. I grabbed six red maples last night and put them in some particularly open. areas. Obviously, it would take about 50 of them to make a dent.

Would appreciate any thoughts! I really enjoy working out there and not afraid of some sweat to clean it up. The link below has some photos and video. Unfortunately they're from the spring, so you can't really get a feel for what it looks like with leaves on the trees.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lot Photos

Comments (16)

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    contact your LOCAL COUNTY soil conservation district office ... and/or extension office ... [they are often in the same office] .. see link

    many have annual spring plant sales ... cheap.. small ... plants.. proper for your area ...

    in essence ... that is what you are doing.. and you need some local info ...

    have a tree guy come in.. and fell all the ash ... and just leave them to decompose over the centuries .... if that is allowed ... i wouldnt really care if they crushed the scrub that is there ... decomposing logs are one of natures beauties ...

    and just making them fall.. should be rather cheap ...

    if you are buying plants over about 2 feet tall ... you are going about his.. all wrong ... unless you have an unlimited plant budget ....

    ken

    Here is a link that might be useful: link

  • shiltsy
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ken,

    Great feedback, thanks! I'm going to call the county on Monday and see if they will send someone out to take a look.

    I found a nursery to buy volume seedlings, and this fall would be a good time to get started.

    What are the best hardwoods to get started in an existing woods that will have to deal with shade? I'm not getting any younger and want to get them started sooner haan later.

  • anntn6b
    9 years ago

    What you can do now, though, is learn which of the shrubby understory are invasives. And remove them.

    Right now, in my woods, there is privet hedge (the size of trees), multiflora rose, and a horrible, horrible newcomer to our area called Japanese Honeysuckle which establishes fast and makes sure that no other seedlings (dogwoods and redbuds especially) can come up from bird dropped seed.

    Ash does make a good fire, and a woodstove will pay for itself, sometimes in as little time as one year.

  • jbraun_gw
    9 years ago

    Ken gave you some good info on how to get your acreage looking how you want it to look. One constraint that you have now is this is a field tree line. You don't have much depth for your trees. That's why you're big trees are in the middle and smaller ones going down to the open field (now your yard). You can try and push the river and make it how you want or just enjoy it and go to a state park and get the woods experience.

    Good Luck

  • edlincoln
    9 years ago

    What effect do you want to achieve? What is a "good tree" to you?

    Personally, I like ash and white pine and think maple is boring. I'd just get rid of the dead ash and transplant the ash saplings from the field into the bare spots.

    Sugar maple, American Beech, American Holly, Basswood, PawPaw, American Persimmon all like shade.

    What are your soil conditions like? What is your climate zone?

    Now is a good time to get trees from the Bargain Bin at Lowes and botanical gardens. A month or two from now is a good time to move trees. Spring is a good time to mail order bare-root trees and buy trees from your county's soil conservation district.

    This post was edited by edlincoln on Sat, Oct 4, 14 at 16:54

  • Huggorm
    9 years ago

    As said before, it all depends on what you want to achive and what kind of wood you like. I would keep most of the ash but remove some of the pine since I like deciduous trees most. Ash is a good base for a wood since their fallen leaves make a very rich soil. I would put in some sugar maples and red oaks, and lots of understory bushes.

  • krnuttle
    9 years ago

    Once you have decided what is good and what is bad, you will now have to implement the plan. While a ""natural" looking woods is nice, it takes nearly as much work keeping it looking "natural" as you front yard takes to keep it looking like a yard.

    I have had a couple of lots with overgrown woods. Don't decide that on Saturday I am going to clean the woods. The next time you have a hour, grab a hatchet or weed hoe and take a walk through the area. If you see green briar, cut it out, If there are other brushy areas cut some of that out. Spend some time to sculpture the area into what you want.

    Next take your hatchet or bow saw and trim some of the lower limbs on the trees and bushes. While some will question the thought of trimming with hatchet, a good Sharp hatchet will cut of small limbs better and faster than other cutting implements. With a hatchet, you can cleanly take off a half inch branch in one swipe.

    Slowly work the wooded area into the what you want the area to look like, and enjoy your time in the woods.

    Finally while those woods look inocent, remember there is poison ivy, hornets, bees, and other bitting insects, so take precautions.

    Also remember you may not be the only one interested in your woods. When we got this lot, I cut down some areas with tall grass, only to learn that a doe was bedding down her young in that area. This year while I did not like the look of the area, it was more fun watching the fawns in the yards

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    you are way too focused on INSTANT GRATIFICATION ....

    when i asked the state forester to stop by [thru the extension office] .. he showed up in many months.. but hey.. you can look at trees all winter long .... so dont expect someone to show up in hours ...

    it takes decades to grow a forest ... your house will be built in months... but you arent going to have that kind of return.. growing trees...

    and the sooner you get that in your head.. the happier you will be ...

    get rid of the ash ... ID what is there ... create a goal .. and be ready to plant in spring ...

    ken

  • wisconsitom
    9 years ago

    I see Minnesota and I read lots of ash. I'm afraid those trees' lifespans may be shortening up, now that emerald ash borer is making so much headway up in this area. So while I think they're great trees, I'd limit any role played by ash in your future conceptions. Great firewood indeed, and this may just largely be their fate.

    How moist of a site is this? That, along with the shade you've told us exists at this site will largely determine what new tree types you can grow there. I have a son who owns wooded land heavy with green ash. He's in the EAB epicenter, so needless to say, we're not anticipating a long future for the ash on his property, even though we may treat a few of them. By and large, it's a matter of "okay, what can we work with on this site now"? It would also be helpful to know what part of MN you're in, since that state, like my own, has a number of distinct climactic areas, which strongly influence vegetation. If you're in the NE part of your state, you will have very different options compared to say, the SW portion.

    Going back to where my son's somewhat similar predicament is, we're going to introduce some bitternut hickory, some Freeman maples, and to the extent that we can create some sunnier openings, some tamarack and northern white cedar. We'll see where we're at then. His site is floodplain, so it can be all the way from slightly moist to outright inundated. So that has shaped our vegetation plans. We may expand out from there, but that's the starting point. Interestingly enough-to us anyway-he has some legacy HUGE paper birch in his woods. We like that, especially given the fact that his property is well south of where people expect to see that species, so we may plunk a few of those in too, if we can find sufficient sunny spots.

    +oM

  • aachenelf z5 Mpls
    9 years ago

    I stumbled on this thread by accident and totally agree with the above post. Consider getting rid of all the ash because of the problem with Emerald Ash Borer in MN. You don't state where in MN you're located, but here's a blurb from the DNR:

    "Emerald ash borer (EAB) is a nonnative invasive insect that destroys ash trees. A quarantine has been placed on Ramsey, Hennepin, Houston, and Winona counties to help slow the spread of EAB to other areas. It's against the law to move the following items out of EAB-quarantined counties:
    Firewood from hardwood trees
    Entire ash trees
    Ash limbs and branches
    Ash logs or untreated ash lumber with bark attached
    Uncomposted ash chips and uncomposted ash bark chips greater than 1 inch in two dimensions."

    It really is a serious problem. For instance Minneapolis is now in the process of removing all 40,000 ash trees on city property and replacing them with other species. Guess what kind of trees are planted on the Blvd. on my block? Yep, ash trees. Some have already been taken down.

    Kevin

  • shiltsy
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you all for the thoughtful replies.

    Ken - as far as instant gratification, I'm thinking 20 years out here. I've waited to plant trees in past homes and five years later always kicked myself for those five lost years of growth. Will try to conservation district, but not going to wait six months to start getting things done.

    Ash borer - I'm in the twin cities metro and it's definitely a concern. I'll be watching to signs to see if they may be what's taking some of these ash trees out. Not sure I'm ready to clear cut all the ash in this woods. No harm starting some other trees right now and hoping some of the ash do well is there? I'm splitting all the wood and stacking it to be burned. Definitely won't be transporting it.

    Our lot is in Afton, MN. The same area where what looks to be a disease resistant Elm was identified recently. There's a great story linked below.
    The most interesting question asked was - what I'm looking for in the woods. I thought a lot as I walked out there today. What would be really cool is a variety of native trees that I could nurture and watch grow. It'd be great to see a few butternuts/chestnuts or take a limb from a cherry tree every year for smoking/BBQ. The backdrop for our backyard is important, but the story and process behind each tree is what I really enjoy.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Afton Elm

  • zone4newby
    9 years ago

    If I were you, I would focus on the buckthorn. Buckthorn retain their leaves longer than anything else, the next few weeks are prime time to remove them, because identification is so easy.

    If you cut it down, be sure to treat the stumps with undiluted round-up immediately or it will just grow back.

    Removing the buckthorn is the first step in getting your woods healthy, and doing it before you move in is ideal because you've got more space for the brushfire you'll need to dispose of it.

  • corkball
    9 years ago

    Based on the photos, it looks like you are just east of Twin Cities near the St Croix river. You will have more options than most other areas of the state because it is warmer and wetter (it's all relative!)
    Couple of things to consider:
    1) rural MN in that area is going to be overrun with antlered forest rodents. Anything you care about you should fence unless it is noxious to deer or possibly close to your house. Protect your seedlings!
    2) 3 acres is a pretty good sized lot. As long as the trees aren't close to your house, I wouldn't worry too much about taking things out. Folks are right about EAB and all, but you have lots of other land to work with, and in the mean time, you get the shade from ash trees! You will have lots of time to replant that area if/when the ash do die.
    3) Not sure where you are from, but watch for ticks from about spring green up until just after 4th of July. I hate those buggers and they are endemic in eastern MN. It helps to keep walking areas well mowed.
    4) underbrush is most likely buckthorn. It is rampant around here. Look for clumps of small black berries on the growth. Also, if you strip off the bark, it will be yellowish underneath. If it is, you have lots of work ahead of you. The only positive is buckthorn is weak rooted, and smaller plants can be removed fairly easily by hand or with a shovel, or with a tree puller like a weed wrench. Google "buckthorn removal" and you will find a TONS of stuff.
    5) Common native trees in that area are:
    - oak: burr, white, northern pin are very common
    - green ash
    - maple: sugar, silver and some red. Also boxelder, but don't plant this
    - basswood
    - hackberry
    - willow
    - american elm (DED problems)
    - black locust
    - black cherry
    - white pine and other conifers (red pine, red cedar, spruce) - but I am not partial to them, so don't worry about THOSE
    6) I could suggest a ton on non-natives that would do well in your area, but not sure what you are looking for.
    7) Someone mentioned local extension. Check with your county, for example: http://www.mnwcd.org/land/trees/. Lots counties sell small seedlings very cheaply to landowners. They are small, generally always a small selection, native, and have large minimums (25 or 50 tree minimum is not uncommon).

  • shiltsy
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Corkball - good call! We are in Afton in the St. Croix river valley. It's a gorgeous area.

    Confirmed - the ticks are so bad in early spring/summer that you can bet you'll have one within five minutes walking in tall grass woods. It's crazy, but we've learned how to deal with them.

    I really like your theory on leaving the ask for now and your native recommendations. Incidentally, see my post on link to the story about St. Croix elm. Awesome story about a DED resistant elm being discovered just down the street from us. It's not patented and being sold commercially.

  • whaas_5a
    9 years ago

    Don't discount evergreens. You'll be kicking yourself once its barren out there in the winter. I once thought they were boring but now they are the backbone for everything at my latest place.

    The first snowfall is just as exciting as spring blooms.
    They'll serve as a wind break as well.

    http://www.evergreenplantnursery.com/Spruce-Firs-Conifers-s/7.htm

    http://musserforests.com/Downloads/MusserHandoutFall2014HR.pdf

  • corkball
    9 years ago

    Interesting about St Croix elm - you really want elm if you can avoid the diseases. I have been planting Valley Forge elm, but helps to have more arrows in the quiver. Would be interested to hear if there is any elm yellows resistance. SUPPOSEDLY Princeton elm has some, but I have only heard anecdotal evidence. Anyway, american elm is fast growing with pleasant form and fall color.
    Other showy fast growing trees you can get are Autumn Blaze maple (red x silver cross) which has great red fall color. Some other showy fast growers (that have more downsides) include weeping willow, catalpa, white poplar