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ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressure
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Posted by
ken_adrian z5 (
My Page) on
Fri, Oct 14, 11 at 9:31
| hey
the hockey game got a bit boring.. so i flipped over ... and i saw them moving what looked like a 20 foot river birch.. BARE ROOT ... blasting all the soil off with air pressure ...
now.. my inclination.. would have been to cut it down.. and go buy another for $50 .. rather than spend what appeared to be $1000's dollars to move that one.. but whatever .. lol ..
i did a google search ... and i think the show is too new to be on the website .. as of this morning..
i simply want to know if i dreamed this [the game was slow.. maybe i fell asleep] .. or others saw it... and what do you think ????
or .. if your game gets boring.. and you see the show.. check it out.. and let me know ...
ken |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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- Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
Fri, Oct 14, 11 at 9:50
| Your telling me your full attention wasn't dedicated to the BrewCrew? All tied up, look out Tornado! |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| I saw the same show. While it was an interesting way to move a large tree, I too questioned the cost of doing it. They also moved an evergreen though of smaller size. For that the dug a ditch all around the tree cut under it and burlaped it. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| its red wings for this boy .... i have no clue what a brew crew is???? ken |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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- Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
Fri, Oct 14, 11 at 13:04
| The city of beer has a baseball team making its way towards the world series. I thought they cancelled the NHL for some reason. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| Ken, using an air spade or an air excavator is not a new thing. Pretty nifty, huh? |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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I have moved several trees now using my home made air spade. Cost me around $50 to build. If you take the reduced cost of less large equipment and a far better survival rate, then for a good number of trees this is looking like a viable option and cost effective.
This year I got a call two move two 8' tree lilacs with 4-5" DBH. It was right after bloom and going into the summer. I suggested we wait but the owner is eccentric. We could not get equipment into the area due to space so we used the air spade. Now I know that we only had them out of the ground for a short time and they received good after care but they did not seem to suffer at all. No wilting no loss of growth or buds, flower or leaf. We also moved two Junipers that day that just got stuck in a field watered and left and they also seemed to suffer no ill effects.
I am becoming increasingly more convinced that this is the best way to move plants.
OH by the way I charged them $500 for the day and they supplied other labor. They did get a good deal as they are a very good customer and I was interested in the experiment. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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- Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
Fri, Oct 14, 11 at 15:35
| I gotta see a pic of this $50 air spade! |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| You can see plans for how to build an Air Spade on my Blog. But I am not supposed to do business stuff on this site. However if you if you type air spade into Google and hit Images I am around the second one down. From there you can find my blog. Or type something in like how to build an air spade for around fifty bucks and you will find me. I hope I did not just violate the terms of Garden Web and apologize in advance if I did. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| I meant videos not images in the last post. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| Ken- I watched it and was telling the wife these people are nuts. I would have cut down BOTH trees (they moved 2) and put in new ones. Would have saved $1000's and been 100x faster. I couldn't believe the work they went through to move that birch. Insane. Maybe if you a billionaire, it might make sense. I usually like watching that show, but I thought that was the dumbest thing they've done yet. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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I don't get the whole concept of bare root plants, i always thought that in order for roots to survive they need soil around them for them not to dry out and also all the tiny root hairs that make up a good portion of the whole root system, won't they get damamged too much or dry up?
I tried to move a couple of cypress once, most of the soil had come off as the soil in the area was not very good and the trees were not well established and had very small root system, but they were only about 8 ft tall, but they died on me. Compared to the size of the tree they moved in this show, thats nothing. What could I have done for them to survive? |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| phoggy... well you could start your own post instead of hijacking this one.. and when you do.. add some facts.. like when you did it.. month.. how big a ball.. how long there prior to move.. did you amend the hole.. did you water properly after ... give us any facts besides digging and moving it.. and maybe we can come up with some ideas .. the episode is at the link below if you have 15 minutes to kill ... i think it was the first part of the show ... ken |
Here is a link that might be useful: link
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| I'm in so cal, and it was around december. I put the trees in the ground immediately, it would say the root ball was fairly small, it probably would have filled up the bottom half of a 5 gal container. I amended the hole with 50/50 mulch and top soil. I kept the soil moist, is it possible to have over-watered the trees? I saw the show on tv a couple of days ago, and i was in disbelieve. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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Geesh Ken Lighten upon phoggy. I enjoy your posts and pictures and even learn from you but you can be a bit of a pisser at times.
Sounds to me like the trees phoggy moved were in poor shape and moved not using an Air Spade, just the soil falling off the roots.
As for cost. It depends on the situation, the value of the tree and the customer. The Lilacs I moved were for a real billionaire so he does what he wants. He once had a 60' oak rotated because the side facing his window was not the nicest side. I wasn't there then but apparently it took three cranes.
This year I also moved a Stewartia with the Air Spade. It was about 8' tall with a 3-4 inch DBH. I had two guys on site who were digging the new hole while I got the tree out.
The soil was hard packed and clay, the stuff the builders leave after they knick all top soil. I had the tree ready to go before they had the hole dug. We finished the new hole with the Air Spade. Then the three of us picked up the tree and put it in the new hole. No heavy equipment involved and it took about four hours.
You are probably right about cost for a cheap fast growing tree like a birch, but we need to do a lot off record keeping before we know if this type of tree move is worth the cost for more expensive or slow growing specimens. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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- Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
Sun, Oct 16, 11 at 22:06
| Speaking of TOH, this is actually a good video on how to transplant. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Transplanting Large Tree
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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I strongly disagree with that video. Never ever add fertilizer to a newly planted tree. Wait at least one full growing season and better off two years, if ever.
But again I have gone off thread. Sorry Ken. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| Three problems I noticed in the video were... 1. His "rule of thumb" wasn't too far off for the tree he was digging (maybe a little small), but would be WAY off for most smaller trees. 2. The recommendation of digging the receiving hole only twice as wide as the rootball is not a good idea. I would go at least three times the rootball diameter, and provide a more dish-shaped hole. 3. A substantial omission was the jump from digging around the sides of the rootball and using burlap to lifting the tree out of place. |
Re: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| Phoggy, Take a look at the link below, it should give you a lot of info about how to plant a tree. Next time you plant a tree, DON'T use amendment (at least not nearly that much!). Section 12 covers watering. Unfortunately, there's nothing in the link about bare-rooting with air pressure, to tie into Ken's topic. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Planting a Tree or Shrub
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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- Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
Sun, Oct 16, 11 at 23:10
| Surely wasn't perfect but good none the less. Thanks for adding the 2 cents to make it even more worth while. Hey its TOH so its somewhat related. Its not like this place is hopping anyhow, lol. |
RE: Other Tree-Related Air-Spade Uses
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| I can't remember this being mentioned in this forum before. Everyone always talks about what damage was done when a plumber had to chop a bunch of roots out to lay or replace a pipe. Here's a good way to do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21lRgn3JTM4 |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| i was a bit inartful to phoggy ... my point was.. if you start your own post.. replies can come directly to you ... instead of to my mailbox ... regardless.. i do appreciate all participation.. though sometimes i have to apologize for mine... sorry ken ps: i spent decades watching victory garden ... i think that is where all this fascination with amending came from.. the key though .. was learning the difference between veggies.. annuals.. perennials.. and then trees .. it is a good thing to amend .. A BED ... when dealing with the production of food or flowers.. on short lived plants.. they need it.. but when you are discussing a tree that can live 100 years.. whats the point.. its going to grow right out of that hole in a year ... if the amending doesnt harm it outright ... |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| Only thing I've ever done consistently when planting trees is put mulch about a 1.5ft around the tree (i let it touch the trunk too, never seen any harm). That really seems to help young trees get off to a fast start. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| Here's a link to the video. The Sciadopitys verticillata move was worth it, a cool tree IMO. I probably would have cut down the birch to give it more room and planted new trees in that open space. |
Here is a link that might be useful: ask this old house tree transplant
oops...
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| Ha, just re-read and saw Ken's link. +1 on the Sciadopitys, -1 on the birch. Neat technique though. |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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- Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
Mon, Oct 17, 11 at 17:31
| Did anybody catch him almost spraying the homeowner with the paint? |
RE: ask this old house-bare rooting a 20 ft birch with air pressu
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| Yeah, I thought the paint thing was funny too. It's a real shame they went to all that trouble and then made mistakes. Looked like the backfill for the Sciadopitys was pure amendment (compost, sand, topsoil, and fertilizer). I wonder how many large oak roots they severed. Wasn't that trench pretty darn close to the oak? |
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