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hairmetal4ever

tree seed order

hairmetal4ever
9 years ago

I got some Chestnut Oak (Q. prinus) from one of my fav GWers and have some hickories en route for next year's tree seed growing adventures already.

I also put in a small order with F. W. Schumacher of the following:

Taxodium distichum (my first attempt at baldcypress was thwarted by a toddler this spring)
Pseudolarix amabilis
Liriodendron chinese
Cladrastis lutea/kentukea

The oaks I feel comfortable with, and I think I have a handle on growing the hickories, but for the others I listed, has anyone grown these and can you give tips, pointers, first-year and future growth rate/expectations, etc?

I'm most likely growing in various types of root pruning containers, at least initially, for later transplanting or giveaway, depending on whether or not we are able to buy a large (5+ acre) building lot next spring or not to plant them on (I have no room for more trees bigger than saplings at my current residence!)

Comments (10)

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    Interesting. I've been in contact with Schumacher too, and might order from them later this year. They said to keep checking back with them about whether they are able to get a crop of Picea smithiana. Resin would probably tell us it's too cold here, but given the very promising performance of Abies pindrow after this winter, and the seeming generally suitability of plants from that area in the NW Himalayas to my climate (the more rain, the better) - I am compelled to try it. But rather than order one plant from Forestfarm, I want to sow a whole bunch and select the survivors. In growing a few small Abies delavayi seedlings from Treehaven, I've seen that even at such a small size, unique characteristics can be teased out. One of them, for example, started growth quite a bit later than the others. Which is beneficial when trying to adapt Asian plants to our capricious North American climate.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    Oops, actually I was talking about Sheffields, who have a few other things I want that Schumacher does not. Schumacher has Picea smithiana in stock. I suppose I might just order from both instead of waiting on Sheffields to get this year's crop.

  • hairmetal4ever
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I've ordered from both.

    My $0.02:

    Sheffields is faster. Schumacher's can take WEEKS to respond sometimes. They also don't make it clear on their website what is actually in stock, and what is not. However, their prices are far better overall.

    Sheffield's seed quality was marginally better for oaks and conifers but that's based on a small sampling. They also ship much faster, but the prices are higher. Much better website and clearer what they currently have and do not have.

    As far as rarities, Sheffield's probably has an edge, but Schumacher's at least lists in their catalog a few things Sheffield's does not. Examples including Pseudolarix amabilis and Larix mastersiana. Whether it is actually in stock or not is another matter entirely.

    My experience last fall/winter was positive overall for both suppliers, but it seems like Sheffield's was more straightforward with me about something they simply were not going to have this year, whereas Schumacher's, it took some prodding for them to say it was unlikely they'd have one of the things I ordered, which in this case, was Scarlet Oak, until a week later Sheffield's finally had it.

    Schumacher's is more oriented towards wholesale nurseries and forestry operations. They'll gladly sell retail but they're not quite as tech-friendly (i.e., the website) and, understandably so, seem to prioritize the larger buyers.

    Sheffield's does a lot of the same kind of business of course, but at least from a website/tech standpoint, seem to be better equipped to handle retail/small orders.

    All that said, both are overall, quality organizations run by friendly people.

    This post was edited by hairmetal4ever on Wed, Oct 22, 14 at 17:12

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the overview. Yes, I have spoken to both and ordered from both...some time ago, though. I'd claimed since about 2009 that I was giving up on growing from seeds, it can be such a hassle when I have almost 500 outdoor plants to worry about. I used to order them much more frequently. Anyhow they both seem friendly towards non-commercial buyers. Sheffields was upfront about the possibility of not getting any Picea smithiana this year, and said it was best just to call them again in early December.

  • terrene
    9 years ago

    Davidrt28 what are these 500 plants that you have to take care of?? That's a lot...

    I winter-sowed Cladrastis kentukea using seeds from my big tree (previous owner transplanted one into the yard 40+ years ago). Sowed them in January 2012, so they had several months of cold stratification. 1 seed sprouted in May. Don't remember if I scarified the seeds, but it would probably help germination.

    Didn't put any more effort into trying to start this tree from seed, because the big tree self-sows all over the place! There are dozens of small yellowwoods growing around the yard. They seem to grow about 1/2 - 1 foot per year.

    The biggest seedling from this tree is at least 15 years old. It's growing not far from a huge Silver maple. They seem to be shade and drought tolerant. It is not blooming yet - they take a long time to bloom and then only bloom heavily every 2-3 years.

    Cladrastis kentukea seedling -
    {{gwi:450199}}

  • gardenprincethenetherlandsZ7/8
    9 years ago

    Pseudolarix amabilis: seed has low fertility and cannot be stored for very long (short term viability). Be sure to get FRESH seed. Pseudolarix seeds need 1 to 2 months cold and moist stratification.
    A couple of years ago I got seed from Pseudolarix amabilis from an acquaintance who got the seed from an arboretum. Germination was excellent. Unfortunately all the plants were killed by severe frost in the winter of 2012.

    Liriodendron chinense: I have never sown this species but Liriodendron tulipifera has in general a low fertility rate (many empty seeds) . Schumacher offers seed of Liriodendron tulipifera with at least 40 % fertile seeds (cut test). This seed is much more expensive than the 'normal' seed that has a fertility rate of around 10%. Don't know if Liriodendron chinense has the same fertility rate as L. tulipifera but my guess is that it is also not very high.
    Liriodendron cannot be held in a pot for very long. Its roots fill a pot very quickly and the plants become pot bound + root girdling. Young plants of Liriodendron tulipifera grow very fast: 3-4 foot per year is not uncommon and I think that L. chinense also grows very quick. YOUNG plants need a warm autumn to sufficiently ripen their wood. When the shoots of young plants are not ripened sufficiently there will be frost damage in winter. Liriodendron chinense is less hardy than L. tulipifera. I cannot remember having ever seen a beautiful specimen of L. chinense in The Netherlands which is mostly Z7 (coastal area in the southwest Z8).

    Cladrastis lutea is easy from seed (in my experience). Sand paper the seeds or use a nail file to lightly file the seeds (not always an easy job!) but be careful not to damage the embryo. Then soak for 24 hours. Seeds should swell. If not then again lightly file the seeds and soak again. Seeds don't require stratification and will germinate usually very quickly (1-2 weeks when sown at room temperature).
    Seeds can be cold stored in the refridgerator succesfully without loss of viability for certainly 4 years (based on own experience).

  • hairmetal4ever
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks, GardenPrince.

    I think the issue with Liriodendron chinense is that it is hardiest after a warm summer. I've seen a few here and there in areas with colder winters than you get in The Netherlands, but the summers here in the Eastern US are hotter, and I think that helps the wood ripen, which seems to match what you said about needing a long, warm autumn.

    The fertility Schumacher's lists for the L. chinense I think is around 10% but I accounted for that in my seed order.

    Thanks!

  • poaky1
    9 years ago

    I'm one of your fav Gw er's Hair? Aww thanks. You sure you didn't get me mixed up with someone else? Well, I am flattered... poaky1

  • hairmetal4ever
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Of course, Poaky!

    Sorry by the way I never could locate the specifics of that Lithocarpus...

  • hairmetal4ever
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I also threw in some Bigtooth Maple (Acer grandidentatum) to my order.

    I wanted to experiment with them as an alternative to Sugar Maple in drier/hotter soils and near pavement. Due to their Western origin, I figured they might do well. If they can grow (and color well!) near San Antonio (google Lost Maples State Park in TX, you'd think it was somewhere in New Hampshire), they should do fine with whatever my climate can throw at them.

    I'd also love some Chalk Maple (Acer leucoderme) seed, but Schumacher's doesn't stock it, and Sheffield's lists it but is out of stock. In fact, I've always wanted to conduct and experiment and cross Bigtooth Maple and Chalk Maple, just to see what the result would look like.

    This post was edited by hairmetal4ever on Fri, Oct 24, 14 at 9:23