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purpleinopp

There's 2 kinds of people...

Those who fear trees falling on their house, and those who want trees hanging over the house for shade. Which are you? I'm under the shade of a GIANT Pecan tree...

Comments (45)

  • greenthumbzdude
    11 years ago

    If people just lived in earth sheltered homes they wouldnt have to worry about trees falling and destroying their house or ruining their foundation.

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    It depends on the tree and its structure.

  • pineresin
    11 years ago

    "If people just lived in earth sheltered homes they wouldnt have to worry about trees falling and destroying their house or ruining their foundation"

    Then they'd just worry about root penetration instead ;-)

    "It depends on the tree and its structure"

    Agreed.

    It also depends on climate - this far north, sun on the house is usually something to be welcomed, not something to hide from.

    Resin

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    11 years ago

    Air conditioning is cheap here so the shade of overhead branches creates more worries for me than paying for the a/c.

    Let them branches shade out the grass, let them overhang the driveway, just keep them someplace non threatening so I can enjoy the snow, ice and wind storms.

    Knowing the increased dangers of overhead branches do you think it best for insurance companies to charge both of us the same? No, you should have to pay extra to be a true independent American and not mooch off me. Thats home and health btw.

  • rusty_blackhaw
    11 years ago

    I'd much rather have shade than have the house lie completely exposed to sun and the elements. It makes more sense to me to save on utility costs through shade trees, than to worry about the unlikely event of having a big tree crash through my roof (if the storm gets that bad, I'm liable to lose parts of the roof anyway). You can maintain trees to eliminate weak and dead wood, though if that's not affordable it might make more sense to choose smaller, tougher trees (the emphasis these days on "fast-growing trees" creates problems though weak wood and storm susceptibility).

    What I have trouble understanding are the people who live in hot climates (for instance in most of Texas) but bake in homes devoid of shade for fear of storm damage (their utility bills are impressive).

  • wisconsitom
    11 years ago

    Well, I lived with my city's largest silver maple hanging over my house, my neighbor's house, and my other neighbor's house-for thirty years. Then for whatever reason, I just couldn't live with it anymore. The thought of me, this area's number one tree-lover having an accident take place on my property due to a falling limb would be just too much to cope with. So we took that monster down.

    Of course, upon dissection, there proved to be no major areas of decay! Not saying there were no decayed sections at all, just nothing that looked like it would have failed any time soon. Oh well, I've got a LOT of firewood now!

    One of my favorite sights though is for there to be tall, healthy conifers close to buildings. I really like that effect. And in any but the most extreme cases, I don't generally view this as an imminent hazard.

    +oM

  • hortster
    11 years ago

    ...and there's the other kind of people that appreciate trees not just for shade but also for visual aesthetics and wildlife and as carbon sinks and for wind modification and...

    Anyway, a healthy tree close to a house isn't scary to me!

    hortster

  • texasredhead
    11 years ago

    I thought the two kinds of people were Texans and those who wish they were!

  • acer
    11 years ago

    I love the look of stately old trees near or even partially over a house. Of course you MUST watch the health and structure of the tree, and be sure it's a reliable species to begin with. But what harm does a *HEALTHY* tree do, anyway? Leaves in the gutter? I'm willing to clean them or invest in one of those "leaf-guard" gutter systems. We do have some trees around our house now that worry me, but they aren't hanging over it. I'd take a healthy old oak over my bedroom instead of those telephone-pole white pines within striking distance any day. I've been known to say that the only use I have for empty fields is sports, crops, or landing airplanes. :-)

    With that said, I hope everyone fares well when hurricane Sandy strikes, and no trees or branches touch where they aren't wanted!

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    11 years ago

    the premise is incorrect ...

    you do NOT need to have it overhanging the house.. for shade to cool the house ...

    i have an oak.. about 25 to 30 feet from the house.. EXCEPT FOR the 2 weeks of highest inclination of the sun ... it shades all but the roof.. and i have an attic fan up there ... it cools the grass.. the sides.. etc.. and it is placed [and i didnt put it there] .. so that it shades the back of the house [the south side] from 1pm to sunset .. the heat of the day ...

    you simply do not NEED to have then hanging over the house ...

    ken

  • Brandon Smith
    11 years ago

    I have no problem with a tree near/hanging over my home structure. This is because I know that I have either personally assured that the tree is in good maintenance or made sure my neighbor has kept it in good repair.

    No fear here.

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    11 years ago

    I've devoted a great deal of my career to trees. I would have reservations about living under the canopy of a tree. Species makes a huge difference; some are simply known to be weak-wooded. Age is another factor....as trees age, they may begin to develop structural problems simply due to normal senescence. Size would be one more criterion for me.

    Living under the canopy of a giant pecan tree is not something that I would ever do. That hits all of the markers....weak, old, big. :-(

  • jeff_al
    11 years ago

    i had the roof replaced 2 years ago and decided on metal.
    my house is located in a wooded area and a large pecan and oak limbs hang overhead, very high up.
    during this time of year, i seem to jump and twitch a lot more than at other times. those falling nuts are a real drawback to sleep and my other quite times! *lol*
    the house also has a very low pitch to the roof and needs a lot of maintenance to keep the valleys clean.
    i guess i am one of those "lives in a hot zone, no overhanging limbs" people because of these things. otherwise, i've lived here for years and it did not bother me to have the canopy overhang the roof.
    i did choose a light color called "sand" for its reflective properties, though. maybe that helps with the cooling.

  • bengz6westmd
    11 years ago

    I like the house shade, but it has to be durable tree species. Oak, hickory, sugar maple, honeylocust, elm, ash, osage orange & other tough-wooded trees.

    I planted Chinese elm in a critical point & it has done quite well -- already over 30' with a good spread, shading the west side of the house from 2PM on only after 9 seasons.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    This is indeed interesting... look forward to more responses...

  • alexander3_gw
    11 years ago

    I grew up in a neighborhood full of old shade trees, just beautiful. Almost every house was, and still is, within striking distance of at least one tree, usually several, but I never heard of or saw any damage.

    Alex

  • gardener365
    11 years ago

    As I was reading the responses (and got to Ken's) I was thinking, "(a) tree doesn't need to overhang a house to shade (a house)." I think that's an important part of this discussion. I for one will not plant anything too close to clog my gutters or to come crashing down on my house, during my lifetime, however, I am the new owner of the land I have planted on.

    Surely.....leaves will make their way to gutters somehow as in Ken's case, but, hopefully not as many. And having six-acres in my case, allows for me to choose much differently than most folks.

    My sister has an oak in her city lot home that has to be 200 years old and has now begun to decline over the past five years, and decline at a more rapid pace, yearly. When I'm standing in her yard and look around there are power lines on two sides, then there is her garage & her home, then there's her neighbor - and all are underneath this giant of an oak. There is simply no easy way to bring this tree down, but it's going to have to happen, and we're talking in the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars to do so as a result. For her though, she enjoyed living under this tree for twenty some years. So the good can be accompanied with the bad, but for her, it was mostly good. Now her lawn...that's another whole story because.. there hasn't ever been one.

    Dax

  • Huggorm
    11 years ago

    I have oaks streching their limbs over my cabin. I have got lots of leafs in my gutters right now, thats the biggest problem I guess. Not many acorns this year, I can tell from the lack of falling noise from my tin roof :)

  • Brandon Smith
    11 years ago

    Re Gardener365-

    Would you say that better maintenance/pruning over the years would have made the situation a but more easy to deal with?

  • gandle
    11 years ago

    Agree with ken, you don't need to have trees close to the house . I have some massive silver maples that shade the house except for a short time. Those trees are older than I and I am in the high 80's. Yes I know all about silver maples and weak wood and subject to wind damage. These trees are healthy and look as if the could last another 80 years.

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    11 years ago

    And there are some of us that wish we could live IN a tree! :-D

    Josh

  • poaky1
    11 years ago

    I love the look of a shaded house and yard. In the heat of summer with the windows down in the car and you go into a wooded road you get hit with cooler air and you can tell it's more oxygenated than the air was before you hit the wooded road. The only drawback is more bugs and critters and the chance of a weak limb killing you in your sleep of course. I will eventually have all but the north side of my house shaded but the west side has the oaks close enough to overhang. They won't overhang for many years and by the time they decline (unless disease creeps in) I'll be a goner.

  • poaky1
    11 years ago

    By the way if I want to shade my one story house and want to have no overhang of a big deciduous tree or two, how would I position them? I have a Chestnut oak about 60 ft from the house on the south side of my house will it give me any shade once it gets 55-60 ft tall? I mean in june/july/ Aug ? I don't mean to highjack purples thread but maybe someone else wonders about a similar situation.

  • arktrees
    11 years ago

    Well the people up north may not need trees planted close to their house for shade, but it ain't so here in the south. Mid-summer the sun declination at my location is 13 degrees. Which means the sun is almost directly overhead. We have hydrangea planted 18" s=away on the North side of our house with an overhang that get sun scorched every year from projecting into the direct sun. Go further south into Lousianna/Texas/Alabama etc, especially the southern half of those states, and it is even more vertical in mid-summer. SOOO species IS important, but so is location. For me, we have some fast growing trees planted ~25-30' to the W/WSW that are beginning to shade the patio in the afternoon nicely after 5-6 years. IF they fail at 40' in height, they will hit the kitchen where we are not going to be during a bad storm anyway. Guess what, that happens, I will do the same thing again because really its a rare occurrence. Where I grew up, almost ALL houses had large overhanging trees, and I remember only once or two that one had major failure, and then the living space was not significantly compromised. Can it happen, sure, but so can a meteor, car crash, lighting, etc.

    Arktrees

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Poaky, no apology necessary, the discussion will evolve as it will, I'm just along for the ride...

    I think you need to know the angle of the sun at your latitude on the longest day of the year. Then there's probably a formula you can plug that number into to know how far/close from the house a particular height of tree needs to be to provide shade. To cater to your concern of no overhanging limbs, you would want to choose taller trees that are as narrow as possible at the canopy. That being the case, I think you would need at least 3 trees to maintain the shade throughout the day. I don't think that tree you asked about will be tall enough at that distance from the house to provide much shade since the angle of the sun is so high above when the rays are coming from the south in the heat of summer.

    Definitely agree it's not necessary to have trees literally hanging over the house to provide shade, that just happens to be the case with a giant tree 10 feet from the NE corner of the house. I wouldn't want to trade the shade for the added expense of running the A/C more, but wouldn't set things up this way if starting from scratch.

  • botann
    11 years ago

    I had a Hinoki cypress branch overhanging my roof that was half the diameter of my wrist. My insurance company made me cut it off. My cat used it to get on the roof.
    Sometimes things are just out of your hands no matter how much you plan.
    Mike

  • strobiculate
    11 years ago

    two kinds of people...texans and those who thank their lucky stars they are sane.

    three kinds of people...those who cherish everything that trees provide, those who see only what they want to, good or bad, and those who believe that proper landscaping is asphalt.

    as to the expense of removal vs. cost of a/c...i guess you are going to have to show me that accounting. because once you add initial equipment cost and installation, maintenance, annual and over time, and operating cost monthly for x months per year times y number of years...compared to initial cost of tree, cost of cleaning gutters or gutter guards, i'd include annual cost of maintenance of tree, but that's something hardly anyone does, plus one time cost of removal...i'm willing to wager that the tree is cheaper by far, even if you assume that the only savings that accrue are half of the operating costs...because if all it saves you is fifty dollars a month, five months a year, over fifty years, that's 12,500 saved only through reduced operating costs.

    then you get to increased property value vs increased insurance...and except for colossal blunders, such as cottonwoods allowed to grow within a foot or two of walls, insurance hardly ever intrudes. note: i've never lived in regions of the southwest where fire codes re: landscaping have been initiated. ironically, it's in drier climates where the cooling effects of trees are most dramatic, as opposed to the humid east coast. but that's another discussion.

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    I have a 50-60' linden planted 25' away from the house and it "barely" shades it during the summer.

    I'm an advocate for picking the right tree, caring for it (including pruning) and there is no reason to not plant a tree close to the house within reason (other variables are at hand depending if you have a ranch or colonial etc).

    I have a 1/2 acre lot with 25' to work within between my house and the lotline. I'll be damned if I don't plant a nice sized shade tree for the west corner. Leaves...no problem, they have gutter guards that are easy to install.

  • gardener365
    11 years ago

    I was asked regarding my sisters OAK if better maintenance and pruning would have helped. The truth is it's the wrong tree for the place. Narrow forks are not a part of the problem nor injury, and the likely issue with pruning the enormous spreading branches is infection can occur if improperly done, i.e. leaving a collar and/or a large part of an existing branch where wounds open up thus evolving to heartwood damage/infection; so in totality of how I view her situation and the die back showing up on these enormous branches, some cases being 10' from the tip, there's nothing she could have done to stop the decline of her tree or, improved the situation that she faces, currently. Every branch is affected.

    Dax

  • wisconsitom
    11 years ago

    I think that to some extent, the way this question is being answered relates to the fact that for the most part, we're living in a post-American elm world. Back when there were a few million of those things in every city, every town, and every country lot, it was completely the norm for there to be tall trees over everything. Now that' they've been gone for a while, people are forgetting, or were born too late to have ever seen, how the place used to look.

    In fact, in terms of an "urban forest", I'd have to be honest and say the best days are already behind us. Check out old street scenes if you're able-views from the 1950s or whatever combination of era and place that allows for Am. elms to be in the picture. Sure looks different, doesn't it? Streets were green tunnels, big two-story homes were framed by greenery that arched high above. Even big oaks and tall species like silver maple were easily overtopped by the elms.

    Cheery fellow, aren't I!

    +oM

  • arktrees
    11 years ago

    house I grew up in had a HUGH American Elm overhanging almost half of it, and my room was under it. It did eventually get DED, but hung on for over 20 years (though slowing losing the fight) until a tornado finally took it and every other tree near it, including an apparent offspring elm that NEVER showed ANY signs of DED. Others nearby died many years before. It is my hope that they seeded many youngsters that will carry on their genes for at least partial resistance. Evolution in action.

    Arktrees

  • jimbobfeeny
    11 years ago

    I also like the "house in the woods" look. Down in Indianapolis, a lot of the older neighborhoods preserved the original beech-maple forests of Central Indiana. It is usually 10 degrees cooler on the far Northside than it is out here in the country. The sun really bakes out here! I've started planting tons of trees around our house. The original forest where I am was clear-cut in the 30's, so there is mostly ash, elm, hickory, and a few oaks. I am planting my beech and sugar maple!

  • calliope
    11 years ago

    Yes, we have trees around the house. Some of them are over a hundred years old. One of them was here before the civil war...something I'd have never thought would have been planted then, but it was a very narrow juniper. I recognised it in a picture taken with a soldier in a Union uniform posed next to it. One day it just bit the dust, and had the decency to fall away from the house. I miss it, as it was a fav of a mockingbird who used to sit in it and sing through the night in summer. That was magic. Ditto a spruce I suspect is about 80 feet tall. It is still in good health, thank God, but if it ever went over, it would take half the house with it. Our house is becoming less and less visible from the road as the trees we have planted mature and wrap their green, leafy arms around it. Everyone who ventures up into the property mentions how they would love to live surrounded by trees like we do, but you can tell they are doing the mental calcuations and wouldn't given the chance. Every so often, we spend major moolah to do maintenance on the ones who need it, and spare as many scrag ones as possible for the cavity dwelling birds as long as they present no danger. Yes, in hot summers you can feel the heat drop as you go up the drive toward the house. In the grotto, it's like some sort of space warp of coolness. It's worth the effort and if I had to do it again, I wouldn't change a thing.

  • terrene
    11 years ago

    And then there are people who love trees and their shade, and are not particularly worried about them crashing onto the house, but are getting really sick of cleaning up tree litter!

    At the SE corner of my house is a huge Pin Oak that hangs over the deck and back of house. Do I worry about branches falling? Heck no, this tree holds onto to the dead let alone live branches forever - but it's constantly dropping sticks and leaves on the roof and deck. On top of that it holds its leaves way too long into the fall when I don't need the shade, and it means waiting forever to do the last cleaning of leaves out of gutters.

    At the SW corner is a big Silver maple that makes a zillion samaras, it must be especially fertile because it makes WAY more seeds than the other Silver maples nearby, and I have to get up on the roof and clean maple wings out of the gutters every Spring.

    Any sort of unusual weather event, such as tropical storms or 10" rainfalls, require yet more trips up onto the roof to clear gutters, sometimes before AND after.

    I am SICK of climbing up on the roof every other month to clean gutters and valleys and skylights because of these dang trees, not to mention it's little scary.

    Apparently I needed to vent about this issue! LOL

  • wisconsitom
    11 years ago

    Terrene, the big silver maple I referenced above used to put out so much seed I'd use the big push snow shovel to clean them off the driveway. One odd thing I found out-hundreds of pounds of silver maple samaras make a really nice compost!

    +oM

  • Brandon Smith
    11 years ago

    Gutter guards?

  • Eimer
    11 years ago

    I've heard it said that there are two kinds of people: those who divide people into two kinds and those who don't.

    And that the clever ones are those who distrust any statement that makes sense to a mind like theirs.

    I've heard that in Texas they don't have many trees. That they don't need then: their heads are so huge with hot air there's always plenty of shade.

    Don't air conditioners usually recycle the same crummy air over and over? While plants actually remove some toxins from air?

    Trees are beautiful. I've never heard that said about an air conditioner.

  • aquilachrysaetos
    11 years ago

    I am in the 'shade the roof' camp. Nothing is as beautifying to my eyes as trees. The pretty neighborhoods have lots of trees. The boring ones don't.

    I live in So Cal and it gets stinking hot here in the back end of Summer so trees provide more than beauty.

    I have one wimpy window air conditioner. Not moneyed enough for a big central air system. I learned the cooling value of a mature tree when we removed a Mulberry tree. The house was 15 degrees hotter!

    Big, tall and sturdy was on my order form for trees, so I planted two Planes and one Cal Sycamore. I need them to not only shade my yard and house but to also shade the asphalt of the road so I don't get a hot breeze blowing off of the pavement into my garden. The Planes have the bonus of being one of the best for carbon filtering and air cooling.

    Where I live gets high winds in Fall and Winter. Never seen a Plane or a Sycamore break or blow over but I sure have seen lots of other kinds of trees littering the roads after a windstorm.

    Most would consider the truckloads of leaves they drop an undesireable trait but I like it. I love a carpet of leaves. I'll take one anyday over a boring lawn.

    They also have a wonderful sort of spicy smell that is most noticeable in this time of year. It smells like Autumn to me.

    My house is old and busted but each year it gets prettier as my trees mature.

  • jimbobfeeny
    11 years ago

    Actually, there's 3 kinds of people - Those who can count, and those who can't...

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    "Actually, there's 3 kinds of people - Those who can count, and those who can't..." This cracked me up, thanks!

  • bengz6westmd
    11 years ago

    terrene, invest in some plastic gutter-guards. Made my life much easier when I was in a forest in SW VA. I could use an extended rake to clean the gutter-tops off from the ground -- usually wouldn't have to get on the roof (except maybe once a yr to clean underneath the guards).

  • terrene
    11 years ago

    Jimbob, lol!

    Wisconsintom, the wildlife from squirrels to blue jays love the seeds on silver maples too. Wildlife also love the flowers, and the funky cavities these trees seem to get.

    Oh regarding this big Silver maple, the very first tree work I had done they removed a huge limb that was hanging over the house and utility wires because I did worry about that tree initially.

    Gutter guards are a very good idea - for the next owner. I'm looking to move in the next year or 2 so I can downsize, and don't want to invest any extra money in this house. My dream house, which I build in my head all the time, doesn't have gutters. It has better overhangs or some other way of diverting water properly away from the house, haven't quite figured that out, lol.

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    11 years ago

    I also have a huge pecan tree at one end of my house that has trunk nearly 4ft diameter. Hurricane Ivan broke a branch from it which crashed through my garage, and it scared me as it shook my entire house. I had it trimmed so that none of it overhangs the house anymore, but if it were ever to blow over it would demolish my house.

    After Ivan a lot of people also cut down their large pine trees. The problem isn't that the trees fall onto the roof, but they fall into the side of the house which practically cuts it in half.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Same situation here, alabamatree, if our pecan tree falls directly toward the house, the house will be completely gone except my son's bedroom, which is one reason why he got that one. I guess if they're ever pulling my mushed body out from under this tree, hopefully they can say, "At least she wasn't sweating when it hit her!" LOL! (Watching the squirrels play on the tree as I type...)

  • calliope
    11 years ago

    Terrene, perhaps you should consider a thatched roof. No gutters needed. It's hard to find a thatcher anymore, really expensive and doesn't last all that long. You'd have to pay traveling expenses as well all the way from across the pond. Can you even imagine trying to buy house insurance here with a thatched roof?

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