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I am looking to replace a ASH tree that will be dead and removed next Spring in my front lawn which faces West. So I am looking to shade the West sun out of my front windows of my home.
I am looking at: October Glory Maple, Brandywine Red Maple, Autumn Flame Maple, Canadian Cherry and a Beech tree. If you have any of these trees and can gave your thoughts on them any Pro or Con's will help. One thing that I am trying to stay away from is root damage that trees do and surface roots. There is a sidewalk and a driveways near where the tree will go. Roughly about ten feet away. If you have likes and dislikes of these trees feel free to gave them. I do have a clay soil.An there are tile nearby. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Sun, Oct 7, 12 at 15:46
| I hate to tell you but all the trees you list have a reputation for developing a lot of surface roots and the ability to lift driveways and sidewalks. The cherry tends to sucker quite a bit as well. All OK trees but maybe not the best choices so close to paving :-) Have you considered an oak? |
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- Posted by little_acorn 10 (My Page) on Sun, Oct 7, 12 at 16:37
| With that said what tree would you recommend to plant? If all I would like to stay away from seeds, a very clean tree if possible. I am looking for one that would get 50 feet or more. |
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Sun, Oct 7, 12 at 17:23
| As I said....what about an oak? Generally deep rooted, easier to plant under than most larger maples and typically with good fall color. I'd consider a pin oak or red oak or Shumard oak. Where exactly are you located? First post indicates zone 5A, second zone 10. Fast move!! |
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- Posted by jimbobfeeny 5a IN (My Page) on Sun, Oct 7, 12 at 19:17
| I cast my vote for mountain silverbell (Halesia monticola) |
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- Posted by little_acorn 5A (My Page) on Sun, Oct 7, 12 at 19:24
| I live in Northwest Ohio nears Toledo |
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Mon, Oct 8, 12 at 0:05
| Regular Sweetgums set themselves off! Few trees rival their fall show and something about the leaf shape puts a smile on everyone's face. Nyssa Sylvatica (Black Gum or something like that in common terms) is a red show stopper in fall. It has considerably more polite fruit so they will not add to yard clutter. They're a grouchy transplant in my experience though. For a few years I have been taking pictures of oaks in the fall and have finally gotten some. I bet most will color later than your Sweetgum so it might extend your show. let's see if my opinions hold to what other more experienced folks see: Some pin oaks can have good fall color. They are sturdy and have good structure. Make sure they don't turn yellow from iron deficiency in the soil in your neighborhood, buy yours in the fall and see it in person. Scarlet oak seems reliable. Northern Red oak can be good as well but I think you should either buy a named clone or check out the individual tree yourself. White oak is the majestic big daddy of them all. Your grand kids will marvel at its size and structure. I think fall color is reliable. Their natural tendency is to have a wide spread so it is not right for every yard. Now would be a great time to visit your local botanical garden to get a few ideas or confirm your choices. |
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| I am impressed with my Nuttals oaks quick growth and good form, but you just can't beat the white oak Quercus Alba, you need some patience for them to settle in (unless you start from an acorn) they eventually grow moderately ( about 2 ft a year in good soil), they are hard to find in nurseries as LARGE trees though. Nuttals can take slow draining soil, White oak likes well drained soil, but I have seen it listed as a "wetland plant", which confuses me much. I hope I helped a bit. I tried to anyway. There are MANY oaks out there. Burr oak, Red oak, Shumard oak, Comptons oak, Scarlet oak, Pin oak on and on. Do a search and look at pictures, hardiness zones, soil preference etc. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Mon, Oct 8, 12 at 7:33
| I am looking at one that is around 20 foot tree ==>> a transplant that size??? is this being done professionally??? i suggest no more than an 8 footer ... they establish faster and will outgrow the larger transplant in 5 years ... there is a 500 acre oak farm in mansfield OH ... time for a roadtrip ... link below.. make an appointment.. if you want to tour the 500 acres ... do not show up and hope for the best .... do NOT rely on names for color.. i will yell... GET OUT THERE AND SEE THE TREES IN FALL COLOR.. AND CHOOSE THE ONE WITH THE BEST COLOR ... otherwise.. relying on names can get you variable results ... ken |
Here is a link that might be useful: note the oak family link to a pdf ...
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| Couple of follow up observations. 1.) Beech has a rep. for slow growth. 2.) Red oak group trees tend to grow faster than white oak group trees. 3.) With some of the oaks, whether you're planting in a wetter area (nuttall oak, swamp white oak) or a drier area (scarlet oak) can be an issue. 4.) Do you prefer native trees? Say, an oak instead of a ginkgo? 5.) If you opt for a blackgum, consider a named cultivar like 'wildfire' that has reddish new growth for awhile, since this adds ornamental value to what you get with the regular species. Richard. |
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| OK, I'm still a bit of a newbie - only been growing oaks as a hobby for around 20 years - but I'll put my white oak group seedlings up against the reds, any day, for rapidity of growth. Q.alba & Q.stellata may be laggers, but bur oak, swamp white, overcup, and various hybrids of these species all have exhibited growth rates and gains in stature half again or twice the rate of the northern red, pin, and hybrid reds I've planted. I easily get 2+ ft of growth/yr on bur & bur-hybrid seedlings, and often 2-3 flushes of growth during a growing season - and acorn production usually commences at 6-8 yrs of age. All this with NO fertilization, other than manure deposited by the horses when we graze off the yard. |
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- Posted by little_acorn 5A (My Page) on Wed, Oct 10, 12 at 16:09
| I have had some very good information from all you and would like to know which Oak tree would gave you the most shade? I would like one that would get as tall and wide as my Amber Ash tree got. Also is there any hybrid Oaks that does not get acorns? What I would is the most beautiful Red, Yellow and Gold colors in the Fall of the year. If you can help me out on this I would be very thankful. Also I will get over to Mansfield, Ohio to see his trees in the next week. Thank-You for the information. |
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| As far as I know most hybrid oaks put out seed (acorns)when mature enough. As mentioned red family oaks grow faster. Quercus Alba is probably going to give tons of shade but grows moderately, not fast. There is a hybrid ( Comptons oak) It consistsof Overcup oak x Southern live oak, it is growing pretty fast. I have 2 of them. They are zone 5 hardy. There is a mature specimen in Williamsburg, Virginia, it is huge. Hope that helps. |
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| I don't know your area well enough to suggest a tree, but I will ofer this: Stay away from hybrid maple! (a good general rule) What the others have said about root girdling and exposed roots is correct. They also tend to experience random die-backs, have untested resistence to pests, and frequently experience miscellaneous decline, even on good sites. |
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| With a name like little acorn you are destined to plant an Oak. Is Oak wilt an issue in your area? Its actually a bigger issue here than EAB at this point. Quercus alba is the right choice. There is no other as classy as this one. You have to start smaller though. |
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- Posted by Dzitmoidonc 6 (My Page) on Thu, Oct 11, 12 at 22:09
| Ten feet clearance is not much room for an Oak. Love my Oaks, but they get pretty big pretty fast and need more than 10 feet. How about Carpinus caroliniana? The bark provides winter interest, the leaves don't need raking, and some of them color up as well as the finest Maple. A small tree that fits in a small area but still grows quite fast to over 20ft. No acorns to rake, no leaves to plug the gutters. Mine grow happily in clay. The caveat is that they don't all color up, you need to find one that does. Either grow 3 or 4 and cut the laggards that won't color, or visit a nursery that has them and choose one this time of year. |
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- Posted by little_acorn 5A (My Page) on Fri, Oct 12, 12 at 5:39
| I belive that I made the mistake of ten foot from the driveway and sidewalk. What I ment was that I wanted to stay ten feet away from them with the sprade of the tree. I hope that this clears things up. With the Ash tree that I have now has a sprade of 25 feet or better and the tree that I would get would go where that Ash tree is comming out in the Spring. Also the Ash tree is around 40 foot tall. This is why I belive a Oak or a other tree would fit in that spot without any problem. Yes I do love Fall colors in trees. An prefur Red, Yellow, and Orage for Fall color,are outstanding colors. |
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Fri, Oct 12, 12 at 18:24
| Stay away from hybrid maple! (a good general rule) What the others have said about root girdling and exposed roots is correct. They also tend to experience random die-backs, have untested resistence to pests, and frequently experience miscellaneous decline, even on good sites. This is a pretty broad generalization that doesn't have much substance to support it. There is nothing unique to hybrid maples (assume you are referring to freeman and/or truncatum/platanoides crosses) that make them any more prone to girdling roots (that's a cultural issue, not genetic), pests, diseases or random dieback than any other maple species. In fact, both hybrids tend to offer the best features of the two parent species. 'Autumn Blaze' and 'Pacific Sunset' are two of the most popular street trees in my area - happy, healthy and robust in most cases. And surface roots are an issue with any big maple - not at all an issue specific to the hybrids. Besides, there were no hybrids included in the OP's list of considered trees anyway........ |
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| poaky, my experience is that oaks are generally very adaptable and accommodating. Supposed dry-soil specialists like black, scarlet, or chestnut can easily tolerate poorly-drained soils (tho their growth will be slowed). The only vulnerability for some oaks is alkaline soil (chinkapin oak likes limestone soil tho). I purposely planted oaks in some of my poorer soil-spots 'cause I knew they could cope, and they have. 'Kreider' burr oak is perhaps on the thinnest, rockiest soil on my lot, but almost 25' after 9 seasons. |
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| I never knew that the Black, Scarlet and Chestnut oaks could adapt to poorly drained soil, I always heard otherwise, are you sure? I have 3 Comptons oaks, not 2, I put that I had 2, just clarifying. I have nearly neutral PH soil ( 6.7) so I am able to grow Chinkapin oak and Pin oak. I have tried to grow nearly all the oaks that live in my zone, kind of like collecting stamps only bigger and more rewarding. I'm running out of room though. |
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