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Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Posted by greenthumbzdude 6 PA (My Page) on
Mon, Oct 1, 12 at 23:25

I would like to plant some redwoods but I am aware that they reach their largest sizes in areas that are mild in climate and wet. Is there anyway to recreate those coniditions on the east coast like PA. Lets say that money is not an option, give me some ideas.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

If you mean the Sequoia giganteum, I had one do good until I used round-up around it, and the wind may have blown a drop on the trunk. It had done good before that day. I would say give it supplemental water, if rain is scarce. The coast redwood is zone 7 . I've never seen it listed any lower than zone 7. Maybe someone else has better advice. The Sequoia Giganteum is zone 6. I really believe mine would be okay without that round-up application on a windy day.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

If money is really no object: 1)a heater to modify extremely low winter temperatures 2)an air conditioner to modify high summer temperatures 3)an automatic misting system to keep atmospheric humidity up year round.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

You'd be better off planting Dawn Redwood's.

If you want to give the other a try, plant:
Sequoiadendron giganteum 'Hazel Smith' and 'Glaucum'.

Since Giant Sequoia's don't like humidity, they're going to fungus up & it's just a matter of when. You'll need to water them a lot thru their lifetime. I'd recommend you get them on a fungicide from the very get go. Liquid copper is what you will need. Early spring when the first signs of life are showing, i.e. daffodils coming up and other bulbs, do your first application. Then thru the growing season which will be until late summer (about this time of the year) you should spray additional applications every 4-6 weeks when (very important) temperatures are 70 or below. That means during summer or whenever temps are above, you will need to spray early mornings or later in the evenings.

On summer nights if you have the time and resources, and while the trees aren't too large, you can add (as much as possible) ice cubes on the mulch to assist in keeping the roots and ambient air near the tree, cooler.

I wish you luck, and I can't promise success. 'Hazel Smith' is reportedly the hardiest Sequoiadendron and 'Glaucum' folks have reported success with in zone 6 as well.

Dax


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

The Giant Sequoia will do fine in your area. There are some fine specimen located in Longwood Gardens outside of Philly for reference. Forget the California Redwood. The Eastern PA climate is not right for this tree species. The Dawn Redwood would do fine in your area. However, be sure to give it plenty of room because it will reach 100' in height in a relatively short amount of time (during the lifetime of the "young" gardener!).

You note that "if money were no object," if you are thinking of installing a super-size conservatory, then all bets are off! Include some tree ferns as well!


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

bonsai.

Dax


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Zone 6 is a bit on the chilly side for Sequoia sempervirens (I presume you aren't talking about Sequoiadendron giganteum). If you want it to grow LARGE, there isn't much you can do. If you want to try a small one, try a southern, sheltered exposure, but just realize that either you, or nature, will work to keep it small by pruning (and by pruning I mean winter kill if its nature who does the work).

I have a Sequoia sempervirens in central NJ, zone 7A. Did alright down to 3F, no significant winter kill other than a touch of needle browning. Zone 6 I would think would be tough, though.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

akamainegrower said:
> If money is really no object: 1)a heater to modify extremely
> low winter temperatures 2)an air conditioner to modify high
> summer temperatures 3)an automatic misting system to keep
> atmospheric humidity up year round.

No need for the latter two; Sequoia sempervirens does just fine in areas of high heat and low humidity like the Central Valley of California. The issue is wet soil. If they are allowed to dry out, they'll suffer, but keep them irrigated when the rain fails and they do OK.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Probably the best thing to do is to obtain a glacier, park it just uphill from your redwood, and let the melt water keep the tree's roots moist while simultaneously cooling the air. The glacier would probably even help to generate fog in the immediate area.

+oM


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

gtd, are you saying that money is no object? In that case follow the example of Laura Barnes, for her, money was no object and she was also a Pennsylvanian.
-wanna know this tree's name?Sequoia sempervirens
-wanna know who planted it? Laura Barnes
-wanna know where it is? Philadelphia
-wanna know the name of the place? Barnes Arboretum
The living collection @ Barnes was planted by Mrs. Barnes, a remarkable woman. This also includes Monkey Puzzle Tree.
Photobucket


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Thanks Sam! I've been anxious to get a picture of the Barnes redwood. Did you take that? Their visitation policy for the garden is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Since the art has been spirited away to city center, I'm not sure why they can't just open the garden on a "compassionate visitation" policy; i.e., free to those who are interested. In the Philadelphia area, it doesn't compete with Longwood, Tyler, Chanticleer...I could go on.

If you're really in zn 6, it's too cold for Sequoia semprevirens. The Barnes location is a solid zn 7 and the garden has both the northernmost redwood AND monkey puzzle on the East coast.
Not sure why someone thought you'd have to water Sequoiadendron. Quite to the contrary, you should pray for low rainfall after the first couple years of its planting. It's probably humid, very wet, hot periods in summer that are the death knell of them. A tree in Williamsburg languished at 5' tall for all 4 years I was there, and finally browned out completely at the end of a summer, not a winter. And that was on sandy soil, too. If you're in a zn 6 area N or W of Philadelphia, I think certain clones of Sequoiadendron could probably grow rather well. It's S of Philly that the species becomes next to impossible, but Sequoia semprevirens becomes possible.


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btw

BTW, of course I meant Williamsburg, Virginia, not the hip neighborhood of Brooklyn. Williamsburg has 2 S. semprevirens that are larger than this at 100', but Hurricane Isabel took the top of one down and I haven't seen them since then. They are on the campus of William and Mary, which, up until the retirement of a certain Professor Baldwin, had a policy of planting many rare and interesting plants and certainly as of the mid 1970s would have had a more impressive collection than say, the erstwhile NCSU Arboretum. However as there was no horticultural degree program there and Dr. Baldwin was a hobbyist with respect to plant collection, this ball was severely dropped after his retirement and death. They did abominable things like tearing out a mature Arbutus unedo 'Compacta' to plant a freaking river birch as a tribute to some dumb alumnae. Oh, axe grinder being unplugged now...


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

greenthumbz, I planted a S. sempervirens last spring. I took my inspiration from one that grows just west of Hanover, York County, Penn. It is on the road to Littlestown, just east of where Race Track Road intersects Rte. 194. Don't know where in PA you are, but if you want to see it, look up the hill just behind the first house across from that intersection, going east toward Hanover. I was allowed to get up close about 15 yrs. ago. Trunk dba about 2 ft. Don't know how old, but judging from the age of the rest of the trees planted at the old farm across the street itmust have been part of somebody's aboretum in the 1940s. There are a slew of old specimens planted there. The farm is part of Hanover Shoe Farms and nobody tends the trees any more. The Sequoia is planted high across the road from the other trees, all alone, so somebody must have been trying to give it good drainage. Good luck if you plant one. I think mine is only the second one in York County that I know of. It takes a dreamer or a fool to plant one, don't know which category I fall into.

Now that I think about it, that S. sempervirens is actually in Adams County. The county line is east of there about a mile.

Wow, you can see it standing all alone on the hill if you look for 2479 Hanover Pike, Pennsylvania, United States. It is the tree that looks like a sheared Christmas tree. The little Google man is standing looking almost directly south. Cool thing this "Street View".

I just tried it from google map, and the small photo on the left shows the tree in the upper right corner! When you go to the big map on the right, you have to go west a bit on the road because there are other trees near the road that hide it.
2479 Hanover Pike, Pennsylvania, United States


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

If you can get an inexpensive small Sequoia Giganteum and it is cheap, there's not much to lose is there? I mentioned extra water if rain is scarce because I had read somewhere that they like good moisture. As far as them not likeing humidity, I read that they are native to an area that gets frequent fog. I'm sorry if my sources were wronge, there is a book by BALOG called TREE. That is where I read what I relayed to the OP. They have air plants living in their tops, that depend on that HUMID fog.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Dzitmoidonc,

This one? That kinda looks like Sequoiadendron giganteum to me, not Sequoia sempervirens, based on the form... but of course, you can't tell a whole lot from these blurry, distance photos.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Poaky1,

I think we're starting to get confused on the terminology...

Giganteum (Giant Sequoia) is the one from the Sierra Nevada mountains, where summers are dry with low humidity and winters are cold and snowy.

Sempervirens (Coast Redwood) is the one from the California coast, where humidity is high from lots of fog and winters are virtually snow-less.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Yep^. Poaky's words fit with the initial query which specifically said Redwoods-Sequioa sempervirens. Since then, this thread has expanded to include Sequioadendron.

The redwoods do appear to do best in locations with steady moisture availability, which is provided by heavy winter precipitation, near-daily fog drip, and the presence of subterranean moisture from adjacent higher ground meltwater. Hence my recommendation to tow a glacier to the site.

+oM


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

The tree in Adam Co. looks like Big Tree, Sequoiadendron, not Sequoia. That area would be a solid zone 6 so a Redwood there would be quite surprising. However, it looks fairly healthy at least in outline. So this again demonstrates that if your're zone <= 6, and/or in the interior or elevated parts of the Mid-Atlantic north of the Mason-Dixon, or very elevated parts south of it, you can probably grow Sequoiadendron. I have no doubt they'd be happy at Burkes Garden, VA, for example: 78/55 in summer. Almost as cool as England.
http://www.sercc.com/cgi-bin/sercc/cliMAIN.pl?va1209

That redwoods need constant fog and atmospheric moisture is something of a myth. They grow in Sacramento as long as they are watered. The pattern is kind of like: coast of California: rainy in winter, foggy in summer; Central Valley: foggy & a bit rainy in winter, but arid in summer. Needless to say one in Kingman, Arizona, for example, would need A LOT of water as such year-round dry air would cause massive evapotranspiration. It would survive with heavy, wasteful watering, probably, but never thrive. (Kingman is the only moderate elevation city in Arizona I know of...high enough to be zn 8 instead of the 9b/10a of Phoenix, but warmer than the zn 5 of Flagstaff.)


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and please

lets clarify the terminology once and for all:
Redwood = Sequoia sempervirens
Big Tree (not the most common of its common names, but the most accurate I think!) = Sequoiadendron giganteum
aka "Giant Sequoia" or "Wellingtonia"...best not to call it redwood-anything or anything-redwood

attached is an interesting article contrasting them

Here is a link that might be useful: http://trees.stanford.edu/ENCYC/SEQgig.htm


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Hello all,
Yes, I meant Sequoia sempervirens and I was hoping to plant a forest of them on a few acres and then open it up to the public sort of like a little tourist attraction.I would like them to get to the 300+ foot mark if possible. Based on the replies, I am guessing this will not be realistic. However, what if I hire a bio-engineer to splice in some genes from a dawn redwood so that it can take the cold better?


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

No, no, and no!

No, that wouldn't be a very successful tourist attraction. It's hard enough getting people to visit Colonial Williamsburg these days.
No, they will never reach 300 ft. on the East Coast, because of hurricane force winds and lightning. Two things that hardly occur in their native habitat.
No, of all plants that could be genetically engineered to be hardier, S. sempervirens would be one of the most difficult because it's a hexaploid with 66 chromosomes.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

My, my. I asked if I was a dreamer or a fool. Best to be silent and not prove it, isn't it? I am not home and was relying on memory, but in fact famartin is correct. After looking around the net, there is no way any Redwood would make it in Z6 Penn. Winters with temps regularly to minus 10F and summer nights at 80F would end the life of any Redwood. The bark on the Adams Co. tree was very roughly fissured, I remember laying 2 fingers in the fissures and tracing them. Also, the needles were puny for what I thought they would be. Sorry to confuse the issue.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt . -- George Eliot


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Actually, Dzitmoidonc, I suspect Sempervirens (Redwood) would have no problem with lots of east coast nights of 80F... in fact there are plenty that enjoy them across much of the southeast US. Giganteum (Giant Sequoia) on the other hand, would prefer the -10F nights, I think LOL...


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Yes, how many times is it going to take to clarify this? Are people just trolling at this point? RTFT. (kind of like RTFM, except T for thread) There's a redwood in Nacogdoches, Texas, for cryin' out loud.


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Raleigh, NC

http://www.ncsu.edu/jcraulstonarboretum/horticulture/current_plantings/current_plantings_details.php?serialnumber=0014414

Based on my memory from 2008 that tree must be growing at least 4-5 feet a year.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Hell, if you want to see a Sempervirens in the snow, here's the one I have at my parents' in Jersey... this was after a morning in the single digits (it was probably in the teens or low 20s when this picture was taken).


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

In my zone 6 Pa, we haven't been minus zero for at least 7 years. And not regularly minus zero since the 70's and early 80's. We will have maybe a week of 7 or 8 F, in January but usually in the 20's and 30's is the usual. Summer nights in the 80's aren't ALL summer, maybe a heatwave thing, but not normally. Maybe the other areas in Pa fit the minus 10F regularly and 80's at night. I am in SW Pa. Maybe you mean in northern Pa, referring to the regular - 10 F. Anyway to the OP, I would get a small tree that is inexpensive and try it. Sometimes it works sometimes not. That's all... I have to say about that.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

If I recall correctly, the USDA zones are supposed to represent the "average" minimum winter temperature of an area. In other words, for zone 6B, the coldest it normally gets would be -1 to -5. For 6A, -6 to -10. If it hasn't been below 0 in 7 years, then you may be edging up into 7A.

Now, at my parents, the 1981-2010 average winter minimum is 3, so based on that they're solidly 7A. However, during the last 10 years the minimum has averaged out to 7, which is zone 7B.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Famartin, in my area of Pa we've been having zone 7 winters for over a decade, maybe even more than 2 decades. I should be able to succeed with zone 7 trees, but I think it is the length of cold more than the lows we've been getting. I don't mean to overtake this thread but wanted to reply about the zone slide. I'm sure that some fear that cold winters may return, and the fact that some zone 7 plants may be fine with our low temps, just not for the long time of cold here. So to keep it simple it is best we stay zone 6 or label plants differently.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Hi, my name is richard and I'm an arborist and I can tell you how to grow redwoods on the east coast. Your seriousness will determine if your successful. First off it doesn't matter which sequoia your trying to grow they both grow in the same place, microclimate. The difference between the two is they individually can out compete other trees in areas where they grow. So vegetation management around the proposed trees is a necessity. Vegatation management on the surrounding ground and aerial tree limbs. Growing redwoods is all about finding the right geographing so the key is finding the right sight. So if you want to grow redwoods on a particular sight the cost would be enormous. Much easier to let the redwood pick a site in your geographical area. First off soil and temperature conditions aern't of primary importance. We tend to think of plants wrongly as pulling up moisture from the ground, plants put moisture into the ground. A site for redwoods would be in a valley, or a depression. The site would have a watersource in the valley a river, a lake, a creek. The planting site would be on relative equal ground with the water source but not neccessarily next to the water source. The planting site would be a valley off a main valley with a water source. The valley off the main valley would be orientated in a particular direction. Other evergreen would already be growing there and obtaining large size. The orientation of the planting site relative to the valley, relative to the main valley would be important. To arrange accommodations and my hourly rate please feel free to contact me by email.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

First off it doesn't matter which sequoia your trying to grow they both grow in the same place, microclimate.

Bad start. Especially if you are making a sales pitch.

Sequoia sempervirens - coast redwood - rarely sees snow and grows along the CA-southern OR coast within a few miles of the ocean and rarely sees snow or large temperature swings below 35F and rarely sees snow.

Sequoiadendron giganteum - giant sequoia (rarely "Sierra redwood") - depends on snow and grows in the Sierra Nevada mountains where it depends on snow, and sees large temperature swings and depends on snow.

[edited to correct genus -Wx]

This post was edited by WxDano on Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 12:26


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

lol @ wxdano and his repetitive "rarely sees snow" vs. "depends on snow".

Interesting thing with sempervirens vs. giganteum is that I've seen some sources list the hardiness of sempervirens as zone 7 and giganteum as zone 6. Of course there's an element of silliness in that given giganteum is much more cold hardy than that... as long as it has decent snow cover like it would normally have in the Sierra Nevada.

This post was edited by famartin on Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 12:54


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Its Sequoiadendron giganteum, btw.

Oops - good catch, thanks. Fixed.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

As an aside, I don't see how it is possible to create a microclimate for either of them - they're so large a microclimate isn't big enough, they need a macroclimate ;-)

Resin


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Resin has a good point, but don't tell that to our poor 'arborist' upthread. BTW, the very southern range of the coast redwood consists of small stands in a fold on the north sides of hills. Across the canyon a few tens of meters are south-facing hillsides with coastal scrub, yucca and rattlesnakes; a brief walk on that same north-facing trail gets you through the redwoods into sage, ceanothus and rattlesnakes.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

what about an abandoned rock quarry. Say you buy one and fill the bottom in with good quality compost. The walls around the quarry would provide protection from wind and the compost would absorb and hold water like a sponge. This would sorta kinda act like a cove......
A Redwoods roots grow out laterally so the compost depth wouldn't need to be as deep as one would think.

This post was edited by greenthumbzdude on Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 14:30


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Could it not become a bog in the end, too wet for sempervirens or giganteum? Giganteum most certainly does not like it too wet... sempervirens is more tolerant but I'm not sure it would appreciate a bog.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

maybe add a little sand into the compost mix to take care of the drainage issues so it doesnt become a bog.....this plan would only work for sempervirens


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

what about an abandoned rock quarry. Say you buy one and fill the bottom in with good quality compost.

Cold air sinks. So it depends upon your zone.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

True... though I guess one important question is whether the foliage is most damaged by "absolute cold" or "wind burn". If wind burn is the real problem then a sheltered quarry might not be a bad idea assuming drainage issues were dealt with, but if its absolute cold then it would be worse.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

A sales pitch, and a poor one at that. A quibble here, I hate it when somebody consistently writes "sight" when "site" is what they mean. Does this mean that when he plants trees, they are sighted? I hate to think of the view some of my plants have. And when I prune them, how can I be sure I don't cut off their eyes? Just a quibble, my real problem with his post is the following:

An 'arborist' who writes " We tend to think of plants wrongly as pulling up moisture from the ground, plants put moisture into the ground."

So the whole point of the roots is to put water INTO the ground? Methinks Richardthearborist should sue the school that teaches this line of thinking.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

LOL

Since we're talking about Redwoods I can kinda see what he means WITH THEM ONLY, since in their natural habitat they certainly DO help put a lot of water into the ground (though not sure how that balances with what they take out).

In your average place which isn't that foggy, I don't see how it works, though.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 16:17

Eventually monumental trees like these need to be able to take all a site will throw at them for a very long period of time in order to produce the desired effect. Other kinds of trees and shrubs are better for short-term zonal denial experiments.

In this part of USDA 8 coast redwoods were singed by the coldest-in-30-years winter of 1990, as were Umbellularia californica and Notholithocarpus (Lithocarpus) densiflorus, two other large trees characteristic of the California coastal forest - but not growing wild north of southern Oregon, where Californian climates extend north of the border a ways.

Tip die-back is rather frequent on Sequoiadendron giganteum up here, including long-established specimens. I figure it is probably due to a lack of a California summer, the newest part of the leaders sometimes being immature and caught by fall cold.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

"Hi, my name is richard and I'm an arborist and I can tell you how to grow redwoods on the east coast. Your seriousness will determine if your successful."

I was pretty sure your climate dictated whether you were successful or not.

"First off it doesn't matter which sequoia your trying to grow they both grow in the same place, microclimate."

I tried looking for this on Google Maps, but it didn't show up.

"The difference between the two is they individually can out compete other trees in areas where they grow. So vegetation management around the proposed trees is a necessity."

Oh? If they will out-compete other trees, then why do you need to manage them? The redwood/sequoia will manage them all on their own.

"Vegatation management on the surrounding ground and aerial tree limbs."

What are "aerial tree limbs"? Aren't most tree limbs "aerial"?

"Growing redwoods is all about finding the right geographing so the key is finding the right sight."

Geographing? What's that mean? And usually I go to the eye doctor to find the right sight.

"So if you want to grow redwoods on a particular sight the cost would be enormous."

I was sure that microclimate had a lot to do with the cost, but then again I couldn't find it on Google Maps.

'Much easier to let the redwood pick a site in your geographical area."

OK, I'll make sure to ask it next time I intend to plant one, "Hey Mr. Redwood, which sight would you like most?"

"First off soil and temperature conditions aern't of primary importance. We tend to think of plants wrongly as pulling up moisture from the ground, plants put moisture into the ground. A site for redwoods would be in a valley, or a depression. The site would have a watersource in the valley a river, a lake, a creek. The planting site would be on relative equal ground with the water source but not neccessarily next to the water source. The planting site would be a valley off a main valley with a water source."

But wait, didn't you just say the plant puts water into the ground? Why do you need a water source, the plant is apparently a water source?

"The valley off the main valley would be orientated in a particular direction. Other evergreen would already be growing there and obtaining large size. The orientation of the planting site relative to the valley, relative to the main valley would be important."

What the hell does this even mean?

"To arrange accommodations and my hourly rate please feel free to contact me by email."

I don't think you will get any takers based on all you wrote above, but I could be wrong.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 16:24

Northernmost wild grove of ~mature coast redwood is not reproducing due to domination of forest floor by western hemlock seedlings. In my own garden, where I also have both species coming up on their own, from seed, I can see that the problem is that the young hemlocks outgrow the redwoods, which are quite slow at first.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

So the whole point of the roots is to put water INTO the ground? Methinks Richardthearborist should sue the school that teaches this line of thinking.

Not to distract away from his incompetence, but redwoods 'harvest' fog and the fog drip from their foliage adds ~20-25% to the moisture regime at any site.

In this part of USDA 8 coast redwoods were singed by the coldest-in-30-years winter of 1990

Aside but relevant, in N CA in 1990 many species were impacted by that cold snap, including the ice plant lining the freeways. My last trip there, you could still see some spots that hadn't revegetated yet. The maritime environment protected the wild redwoods, but quite a few inland planted as landscape trees were damaged.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

Wx, as a grower of succulents from SW Africa (still dream of growing Welwitschia mirabilis), I am well aware of plants that harvest fog. Many Bromeliads from W Peru also employ the same technique, and there are even cacti from the Atacama Desert with spines that direct water downward. However, barring these few exceptions (and probably other plants that come from areas where fogs are dependable), the fact is that writing a statement that generalizes plants as being net water generators for the soil is ludicrous.

Richardthearborist did not say it was an exception, rare, or a specialized feature. And Redwoods outside the fog zone obviously are not water makers.The exceptions in the plant world are the few plants that harvest moisture from the air. I have noticed that spring fogs cause water to almost stream down the trunk of my Magnolia grandiflora, and the area around the tangle of Multiflora Rose gets pretty wet after a night of fog, but in neither case does it contribute greatly to soil moisture because fogs might only occur 50 days/yr in this area. So his blanket statement that plants don't withdraw water from the soil is as ridiculous as it sounds.

On a side note, humans are copying nature with this idea, especially on the west coast of Peru and Chile. At some altitude (I forget the zone), fogs (called camanchaca) are so dependable that capturing airborne water is feasible to supplement the decreasing amount coming from the shrinking glaciers of the Andes.


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RE: Creating a microclimate for Redwoods?

(still dream of growing Welwitschia mirabilis)... the fact is that writing a statement that generalizes plants as being net water generators for the soil is ludicrous.

King of the fog-harvesters notwithstanding, totally on board with poor Richard and his disastrous sales pitch.

(Maybe) an interesting aside, if you are interested in fog harvesting, Julia "butterfly" Hill lived in a redwood for months as a protest against old-growth redwood harvest. She has some fascinating stories about watching how the redwoods collect and transport the moisture from fog.


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