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| I've got a spot in my front yard where the land slopes down to give drainage in the spring when the snow melts off the neighboring farm field. Basically, I have a small river running through my yard to the culvert when we get an early, hot week in the spring, or when we get torrential downpours in summer/fall (usually once per year). The rest of the year, though, there isn't any standing water or wet soil.
I'd like to plant a couple nut-bearing trees in this area, but planted in a short row perpendicular to the dip so that it won't impede water flow (the dip runs E-W, while the trees would run N-S). Since they'd be subjected to a few weeks a year of wet, waterlogged soil, I started thinking of trees that survive in floodplain areas. My potentials so far are: -Northern-seed sourced pecan (proven winter-hardy in MN at the MN Landscape Arboretum so no worries there)
Have I missed any? I have some extra chestnut seedlings, but those aren't recommended for heavy soils. I like Turkish hazelnut, but I'm not sure if they do well in occasionally wet areas. |
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| I have American hazelnuts growing in heavy clay that has standing water for periods of up to 3 or 4 days at a time, several times per year depending upon weather. They've been in this same site since the 1960s and thrive. My black walnut trees are close by, just slightly uphill but in the same soil, and also get some standing water at times, and are even older and also do fine. My Hall's Hardy Almonds are not too far away, in the same soil although water never really stands there, and they are going on about 25 years old. We used to have 2 Carpathian walnuts in the same area, but they were killed back severely in the record cold of 1994 and declined and died afterwards. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 22, 11 at 10:03
| at the old house.. i had a depression that accumulated about a foot of water.. when the snow melted... but before the ground thawed ... and quite a garden collection ... NOTHING was bothered by the water.. for that RELATIVELY SHORT DURATION ... of no more than a week .. i suspected that dormant plants.. in frozen soil.. simply were not impressed with a plethora of water .... i also suspected that rots were not a problem.. because it was so stinkin cold .... same with erratic summer storms ... again. i had high draining soil.. and a lot of water disappeared in hours in summer ... presuming your soil otherwise drains properly ... i think you are worrying about nothing .... [i would worry more about the claims that a pecan is winter hardy in z4 .. no matter what the experts claim .. lol] how about this.. just walk the ditch.. and tell us how many thousands of trees are living next to it ... if they can take it.. i dont know why your trees cant ... otherwise properly planted .... i mean.. you are not suggesting the entire thing is devoid of trees ... are you???? all the trees you list are 50 to 80 foot potential .. i hope you are thinking of 20 to 40 foot spacing ... and that there are no power lines near ... good luck ... just plant whatever your heart desires.. and be done with it.. worrying gets you no where in the garden.. wing it ... so you lose a few bucks 'trying' ... so be it ... ken |
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| Pecan generally does well in the south in the wet areas along creeks and streams. They are often subject to inundations, but not standing water for more than a few days at a time. Assume they would meet your criteria. Hickory (mockernut)is normally a dry land tree, I don't associate it with wet areas. I'd recommend you concentrate on nuts you like or can sell. The animals will also like whatever you don't use. Whereas if you plant oak, they're basically animal food. |
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- Posted by greenthumbzdude PA (My Page) on Tue, Nov 22, 11 at 11:21
| I would say Black Walnut is one of the best. Where I live the black walnut grows on the stream banks so its constantly being exposed to flooding and water. Juglone is poisonous to pine trees so dont plant any near them. Most native lowland trees like red and white oak along with tulip poplars are adapted to the toxins. There are lists online that explain which species are compatable with black walnut. They can get very large though in my area there have been historical records of black walnut 9 feet thick and over 150 feet tall. |
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| Pecan, shellbark hickory (also bitternut hickory and bitter pecan, but I wouldn't bother with those if I wanted edible nuts), and black walnut all are 'bottomland' species, and I find them all growing, preferentially, along creekbanks and in riverbottom sites that experience periodic short-term inundation. With the pecan - and probably with the shellbark hickory as well - you'll need at least two seedlings or grafted selections with compatible pollen-shed/nutlet receptivity patterns to get good crops of nuts. |
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| Ken, nope, no power lines anywhere. Walking it out, I should have room for 2 trees spaced 20 ft each. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the trees around me in the same area were all planted by the neighbors (this was all open farmland 40 years ago), which means silver maple, blue spruce, and green ash. There are a few red oaks, honeylocust, silver poplar, and black walnut in the area as well, though. Also, I don't really have to rely on what experts tell me about pecans surviving in MN, because I can just head over to the MN Landscape Arboretum (30 miles north of me) and stand underneath their 30-ft tall, already-nut-bearing pecan trees. I would grow my own from their seeds if I could ever beat the squirrels to them. As it is, I'll just be ordering some pecan seedlings from Reeseville Ridge Nursery out of of Wisconsin; they're a zone 4/5 like me, use Illinois seed source, and if they don't make it I'm only out $10. Thanks! |
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Wed, Nov 23, 11 at 1:16
| Green ash in MN... Is that EAB territory yet or is it on the fringe like St Louis is? Sorry for interrupting. |
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| EAB is getting close, they've been removing infested trees in St. Paul already, which is only 30 miles north of me. The future of green ash in the Midwest doesn't look good, I'm afraid. |
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| Guys, the EAB will kill all of the wild trees, but you can easily save your lawn specimens by treating them yearly with imadicloprid or whatever newer treatment comes along. Ash trees here at the epicenter of the outbreak which are treated continue to grow as normal, at least until such time as the EAB becomes resistant. |
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- Posted by tim_treenut (My Page) on Wed, Nov 23, 11 at 19:41
| Im assuming you're from the bp area? Im about an hour south of kato so we've got essentially the same microclimate. In my experience, even the arboretum pecans are pretty iffy in mn. You should remember that they have constant care and supervision. In my opinion they haven't proven themselves here yet.but its always worth a shot. My first choice would be the walnut. I have trees at my house that regularly withstand spring flooding without a problem. The juglone wont be a problem unless you plan on gardening underneath it, but walnuts can also be very messy for a front yard and thays something to remember. We are on the very northern edge of the range of Bitternut hickory. Imho it is a very beautiful tree that makes less of a mess, doesnt produce juglone, and has acceptable water tolerance. Occasionally i have noticed black knot on the bitternuts at the lake cabin, so be prepared for that. Oh that and the nuts would only be edible if you were totally indifferent to your taste buds. I guess what im saying here is, go with a hickory if you can. You'll be the only person in the county with one in your front yard. |
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| Please read up on Thousand Canker Disease of black walnut before going ahead with planting that species. |
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| All the hickories produce some juglone - they're in the same family with the walnuts - Juglandaceae. But, the amount they produce is significantly less than black walnut, and I've not seen, in print, any cautions regarding them having major detrimental effect on most plants grown in their root zones. Yes, read up on TCD, but it might not even make it to your location within your lifetime. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Thu, Nov 24, 11 at 10:49
| give the pee-cans a go .. just dont get emotionally involved with them .. they will live or die.. depending on your micro climate .. IMHO ... two large trees w/in 20 feet is pushing it .... but why not .. maybe you wont be around in 50 years when the strangle each other.. lol ... ken |
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| Yeah, ideally you'd want most large nut trees at 40-50 ft spacings at maturity, but 20 is doable if that's all the space you've got. I did a riparian bufferstrip planting here on the farm 12 years ago - 100 ft wide, nearly a mile in length, about 7 acres total area. Put in 2 rows(3 in some areas where the existing treeline didn't come so far out from the bank) of mostly pecans, with a few walnuts, hickories and oaks interspersed. All were seedlings of 'improved' varieties proven to produce well in my area. Rows 30 ft apart, 20 ft spacings in the rows, with the knowledge and intent that every other tree would probably need to be removed at some point (or not). I've topworked some of the pecans to named-variety pecan and hickory selections, but some have almost gotten too big for me to change them over. No pecans produced by the seedling pecans yet, but a number of the black walnut seedlings have been producing for 3-4 years already. |
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- Posted by alabamatreehugger 8a/8b south Alabama (My Page) on Fri, Nov 25, 11 at 0:39
| Some of the pecan trees at the back of my property are in an area that gets very soggy at times, there's even crayfish that live back there. |
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| **** * Posted by tim_treenut (My Page) on Wed, Nov 23, 11 at 19:41 We are on the very northern edge of the range of Bitternut hickory. Imho it is a very beautiful tree that makes less of a mess, doesnt produce juglone, and has acceptable water tolerance. IMO, Bitternut makes perhaps the best "lawn" walnut/hickory -- if you're not needing "edible" nuts. It holds its foliage well (B walnut often loses foliage by Sep), colors well, and develops a unhickory-like ascending crown that eventually spreads & cascades down into an almost elm-like umbrella form. Looking up the forested slope nearby here, Bitternuts have actually outgrown & overtopped (one is 100 ft tall) the surrounding trees, unlike other hickories. They also thrive along the nearby stream's floodplain. I'd plant some, but there are enough fine specimens right nearby that I don't have to. I've got 2 OIKOS Shellbark hickory saplings planted for nuts. These are attractive & big-leaved & don't mind wet soil, but they are painfully slow. |
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| The local arboretum has long-established hickory trees on a small flat below a slope that gets sloppy in winter. |
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