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jlam2795

Help to identify this tree

jlam2795
9 years ago

Just wondering if someone could help identify this tree. We aren't gardeners but LOVE this tree and would like to know what it is. All we know is its slow growing, deciduous and has funny little flowers this time of year. We are in Bathurst NSW Australia.

Comments (13)

  • jlam2795
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Closer pic of leaves

  • bengz6westmd
    9 years ago

    Looks similar to N American blackgum, even with the little fruit-stems, but little chance that's what it is. You need a fellow Aussie to help out.

  • jlam2795
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Beng, I've since been in contact with my brother in law who is a grounds keeper and thats what he said too - Nyssa Sylvatica, also known as blackgum. When I looked on the net about them though I'm tad surprised and excited it could be growing in our front yard!! It is absolutely stunning tree especially in Autumn. The reason we are so keen to confirm its ID is because we'd like to name our house after it - we just love it.

  • bengz6westmd
    9 years ago

    If it's stunning in autumn (red or sometimes yellow), more evidence of blackgum. Still, surprising & very interesting if that's what it is.

    Since you're going into summer, the little "fruits" would develop eventually into little dark blue "berries" if it really is blackgum -- assuming those are female flowers, which I'm pretty sure they are.

    Blackgum has a large range here in the US and grows in the deep south, so it's plausible it could grow in your subtropical climate. Some older trees develop very rough & distinct trunk bark, below:

    This post was edited by beng on Mon, Nov 24, 14 at 8:13

  • bengz6westmd
    9 years ago

    Below is the Wikipedia page on blackgum (use a search engine for plenty more info/images). Central Florida is prb'ly similar to your climate. The street-tree shown there even looks similar to yours and also the fruit-stems. I'd be surprised if it matures fruit tho, prb'ly no male trees around to pollinate it, tho some female trees might have a few male flowers, or simply produce sterile fruits.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Blackgum -- wiki

  • Huggorm
    9 years ago

    Subtropical climate shouldn't be a problem for east american plants. When I visited Auckland in the subtropical northen New Zealand I was surprised to see that tulip poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera) was the most common street tree. And there was a lot of other american and european trees present as well. Maybe not as hot as australian NSW but heat shouldn't be a problem for east american trees as long as there is a colder winter of some kind.

  • georgeinbandonoregon
    9 years ago

    i might suggest that the surprising number of north american (or eurasian) trees used in australian gardens is not so much about the presence of "colder" winters (at least in the relatively cooler areas---especially in mid to higher elevations) but the application of at least a certain amount of summer water at least during the establishment phase. FWIW,even in the cooler areas of australia a "zone 8 winter" would be considered rather cold>

    This post was edited by georgeinbandonoregon on Wed, Nov 26, 14 at 2:15

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    Very few people in Australia live in a USDA zone 8. The linked video is probably representative of many of these areas; since their averages track their extremes more closely, much of zone 8 there is going to have a borderline alpine climate with the possibility of long periods of freezing and snow in winter. The vast majority of people in AU live in zn 10 or 11 and can grow citrus...the cooler mountain and interior areas could definitely be zn 9, though. Because the adiabatic lapse rate is higher there, a small increase in elevation significantly increases the number of freezing nights. Canberra is famously cold by AU standards but even it is zone 9...and people in most of our PNW would be happy to have their mildness. (though maybe not George) Grevillea robusta can still be grown there. Once difference is their freezes tend to be more of a radiational nature - so Canberra isn't even as cold as zn 9a might imply from a horticultural perspective. I bet certain tree ferns are much easier to grow (in the shade of a Grevillea robusta!) in zn 9a Canberra than they would be in the zone 9a of Bretagne, FR, for example.

    The situation is slightly different in NZ, due to their more southerly latitude. The coldest interior parts of the South Island are zone 8 at modest elevation instead of the mountaintops of AU, but they are still relatively uninhabited. (whole country is only 4.5 million! That's half of the greater Baltimore-Washington, DC area!) Ranfurly has recorded -25C/-14F at only 1400' of elevation. Colder than any temperature ever recorded in Australia! Sea level coastal areas are still extremely mild though.

    (in looking that up, I discovered the surprising fact that NZ is not considered part of the Australian continent.)

    Anyhow another reason some North American trees do well in mild climates is their ancestral or progenitorial ranges probably once extended into the Mexican mountains and thus intergraded into a tropical highlands climate with even less of a winter than a place like Sydney.

    Here is a link that might be useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Sm-Jw0ans

    This post was edited by davidrt28 on Wed, Nov 26, 14 at 9:26

  • georgeinbandonoregon
    9 years ago

    David, would probably be more than happy to have "average" australian climate conditions. as it is there is a fairly wide variance between the cool moist climate in most of tasmania (or for that matter, mid-high (but not alpine areas) of victoria and new south wales) and the warm moist climates of lowland northern NSW and queensland let alone the "arid centre" typified by alice springs or the tropical climate of the "top end" of northern australia or the "mediterraean" climate pattersn of s.w. australia. australia is after all as big as the u.s. and has a corresponding range of climates and rainfall patterns. that said, and FWIW some parts of the cool moist PNW of north america can successfully grow a wide variety of aussies---eucalyptus,acacias, bottlebrush, bankisas, telopeas, grevilleas, etc. so we CAN do o.k. up here. as for the the origin and relationships of the eastern north american flora--think the jury is still out as to if it originally came UP from the mountains of mexico during warm periods or DOWN during cool periods, OR a mixture of both over time. the relatively scanty fossil evidence seems equivocal/contradictory and the continental "temperate" climate of north america ABOVE mexico with it's relatively hot and humid summers and cool to cold moist winters seems to been in effect for some time---the "ice-ages" possibly demonstrating the coldest part of the range of possible climatic events---yielding an assemblage of plants that can tolerate a fair amount of both heat and cold. OTOH, the east asian flora has just as many related genera and it is just as likely the ultimate origin (LOL) of the temperate vegetation of north america is at least in part from northern and eastern landmasses (the so-called "arcto-tertiary geoflora) as from the south???

    This post was edited by georgeinbandonoregon on Wed, Nov 26, 14 at 12:47

  • jlam2795
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks everyone :-) Beng I don't ever recall seeing fruit on it but makes sense why not. This is a pic of the trunk on my tree, its the same as you posted. Feeling very confident it is a blackgum. Must remember in a few months to take some pictures of it changing colour.

  • bengz6westmd
    9 years ago

    Yep, looks like a young blackgum. Not all develop the exaggerated bark like I show, tho. Sometimes I think very rough, corky bark down low like that is a defense against damage from ground fires.

    Almost 100% sure that's a blackgum, or tupelo if you like. Get your neighbors to plant some to get a male for cross-pollination & fruit production.

  • bengz6westmd
    9 years ago

    jlam, below is a small forest-edge blackgum beside my house when in Virginia -- it's the red-colored one over-topped by a yellow chestnut oak. This one was a male -- the male flowers were obvious in late spring & so never had any fruit:

    This post was edited by beng on Thu, Dec 4, 14 at 9:33