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Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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Posted by zippo1 (My Page) on Sun, Nov 1, 09 at 6:16
| Went to a local nursery and they had some siberian elm trees on sale, I asked one of the workers If that was Indeed the Siberian or the chinese and he said they had sold out of all the chinese and that the one's they had on sale was indeed the siberian. I said aint those the ones that people talk about as being so invasive and he said the ONLY time there Invasive Is when soil has either been disturbed by people or by nature and he said If soil hasn't been disturbed In anyway form or fashion then the seeds can't germinate. I have been looking on the Internet and basically thats what Im getting at, Is that they CAN'T grow on undistrubed soil that they MUST have disturbed soil for seeds to germinate.
So without anymore let me just simply ask to those of you with personal experience can the seeds of Siberian elm germinate and grow on undisturbed soil? Again key word being UNDISTURBED. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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| Siberian elms are an ugly messy tree that should not be planted anywhere. The best way of trimming mature Siberians is at ground level. There are so many wonderful trees to plant, why plant a problem? |
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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| The person who told you they wouldn't sprout on undisturbed ground is smoking more than hickory chips. I have a small pasture of a couple acres upwind of a windbreak of siberian elms (called chinese in this area). It has been in pasture for 20-30 years at least and definitely not overgrazed. For a couple years it was infested with a couple horses instead of sheep. Now I have a couple acres of elms which I am taking out (sheep will keep them grazed down to the ground when small so they don't get established). Under the windbreak is not grazed or disturbed except the sheep clean up the litter a bit late in the fall after the volunteer chokecherries have dropped their leaves and it is safe. Every spring in June after the seeds have fallen, you have hoards of elm seedlings coming up through the leaf litter. If the seeds have ground contact and moisture, they will grow. Many will die, but they seed so prolifically that you'll think you have 100% germination and survival. That said, these elms are a very hardy, fast growing tree, great for windbreaks and difficult climates. They will also survive to make living snowfences in 12-16 inch annual precipitation zones. Birds love the seeds, they are great bird and other wildlife habitat in groves or windgreaks. Just realize that they will try to grow anywhere, so you will either need to keep things mowed or tilled or grazed or pruned to keep from being overrun. |
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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| Choose a better tree unless your purpose is to plant a tree far away from structures and infrastructure. Dan |
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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- Posted by lkz5ia z5 west iowa (My Page) on
Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 10:15
| Hello zippo, I don't know why you are so into disturbed and undisturbed soil. The fact is, elm seeds can germinate on things as little as a vole hole opening or ant hill, there is disturbed soil all around us, even where we think its undisturbed. If you have an elm, you will have elm seedlings around. Most elm species have that skill. That being said, it all depends where you live whether the siberian elm is an alright tree or not. Around here, the more I see of it, the more I like it, it is on par with the slippery elm in size, and people have also used the inner back of the siberian elm for the same purposes.
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RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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I have seen Siberian elms invading a disturbed *SITE* but not disturbed *SOIL*. Does that make sense?
It was a woodlot next to a big box store. As a side note I would avoid buying from any nursery that knowingly sells bad invasives like that. |
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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| The question for that salesman is if he's lying in an attempt to get your money or if he's stupid. Get a chance ask him, I'd love to hear. |
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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| It is true that more Siberian elms will germinate and invade more in disturbed sites. But it's not an exclusive thing. |
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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| The introduction of Ulmus pumila was part of a failed attempt to replace the many Ulmus americana we lost as a result of dutch elm disease. The growth habit of Siberian Elm in my opinion unsightly. They are also susceptible to a lot of other problems such as Slime Flux which produces foul smelling slime that runs down the tree and stains it. This of course makes the tree not only unsightly but stinky. There is a reason why your nursery had Siberians on sale. |
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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| I find it odd that any nursery would carry such a terrible plant? These were as common as red maple or ash in the nurseries in the '50s & '60s, but we all quickly realized that we made a mistake and by the '70s these were banished from the nursery trade. |
RE: Siberian elm on undisturbed soil.
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| Siberian Elms are almost the only tree that people have growing here in Elko, Nevada. It seems to thrive here in the extreme high desert climate. Other than that, I find their form ugly. I'm tempted to bring in some Ailanthus to compete with them... at least the Ailanthus has a nice tropical look to it ;-) |
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