where are you .. does your ground freeze

ken

It seems like a waste of effort since the plants can't grow in winter anyhow. (I assume you are in a typical North American climate) I killed off the last of my tree seedlings about 2 weeks ago and I'm probably in a place with longer autumns than you are. Unless there's some overriding reason you can't do it after they leaf out, like you're not going to be in the country or something.

just because the leaves fall off... does not necessarily mean the tree is done sucking down the last of the nutrients.. nor that the root system is also dormant ...

many of us.. plant dormant trees in fall ... so that we can get some root growth in.. before SOIL TEMPS fall .. putting the root system to sleep ...

so there is a window of opportunity.. depending on where you are ...

i think garlon was something the power company used years ago .... or they mixed it with kerosene or some such ... you might want to look at tractor supply or some such for what you might be looking for ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: i see its available in 30 gal drums ... lol ... but its not oil based ... so who knows what i thought i remembered ...

Well, doesn't necessarily mean it isn't done, either.
The only time I've had my "cut, drill & fill" technique fail, was in late autumn with a pesky mimosa seedling. I agree there's a chance it could still work, but why take the risk of wasted effort?

I found some oil based stuff at a farm supply company and "painted" it on each stump after cutting. I guess we will see next spring if it worked!

It was in the 20's today, but the ground is still warm and not frozen.

I had the time and enjoy being in the woods, so it was a great way to spend 4-5 hours today. It's amazing how sections of the woods become just completely infested. I will post some before and after pics asap.

I am curious too what product would be good to use. In the past month I started working on removing the invasive shrubbery again, such as Buckthorn, Honeysuckle, Rosa multiflora, and oriental bittersweet that is still growing out back and along the sides. The stuff is relentless but I keep working on it.

I usually cut stalks off at the base and apply BK-32 or BrushBgon concentrate (triclopyr) to the cut stumps. Then let the stumps and roots rot. I would like to continue in the winter if there isn't too much snow, and also try out the basal bark application.

Here is a link that might be useful: MN DNR - What you can do to control buckthorn!

Ok, the product I ended up using was Gordons Pasture Pro. It's based on Triclpyr and ester.

Here are some pics of my Buckthorn assault over the past couple of days!

Before:
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After:
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Candidly, getting the buckthorn out of this small section of woods was like removing a couple grains of sand off a beach, but have to start somewhere!

While most of the trees are 2-3" diameter, there were a couple large 30'+ trees. Here is a picture of the biggest one so far. The trunk was easily 12" and probably a hair bigger. Nothing (and I mean nothing) was growing around this big one.... it literally choked everything out and created a dense thicket.

The only real challenge were some of the trees on the edge of our lot line that were reaching toward the neighbors open field that we border. Their field, so it was tricky to convince some of those trees to fall back into our woods and not crash down over their electric fence.

{{gwi:469948}}

Final note on this stuff. The wood is absolutely beautiful. It's hard and has a beautiful orange core. We are building on this land in 2015 and I am saving larger pieces to use them in the home somewhere. Worst case, in our wood burning fireplace!

Wow - big one! Looks like Rhamnus cathartica - common buckthorn? Nice to see it cleared out of there but you might get lots of seedlings. Maybe that big one was a male - and it didn't make berries (it's dioecious).

I had some of common but it is mostly removed, and more of the glossy buckthorn - Frangula alnus, which grows as more of a multi-stemmed shrub. Still battling lots of seedlings of that.

Yes the wood is very hard. I have used buckthorn trunks in my large trellis, and it is harder than the maple and ash. But I had a small flock of turkeys that were hanging around the yard all summer and the big ones liked to perch on top of the trellis, and even part of the buckthorn broke. :(

The monster tree was a female, which is one of the reasons I wanted to knock it down asap. The number of berries on that thing was/is daunting.

We have a lot of glossy buckthorn that I do constant battle with. I am a wood turner and use the cut trunks to create turned wood ornaments. The wood does darken some over time, and the finish used changes the color to varying degrees. I've also made a few from some huge chunks of bittersweet that someone else brought me. Happily my bittersweet hasn't gotten this large! I enjoy using the wood of invasives to make something far more attractive during my nongardening season, though the buckthorn has perhaps some silica in the stems since it requires frequent sharpening of tools, something that oak or hard maple doesn't.

The bittersweet ornament in this photo is the one in the upper right corner, the buckthorn one is along the left side. This particular piece had been cut for a while before turning and so darkened, but fresh wood has bright light yellow sapwood and bright cremesicle orange heartwood.

Winter cut-stump treatments for buckthorn can be effective, and are pretty common in swampy areas where the access is easier after things are frozen.

Triclopyr is sold in two forms: a water-soluble salt version (e.g. Garlon 3A) and an oil-soluble ester version (e.g. Garlon 4). Both can be used for cut-stump treatments, but the oil-soluble type is probably a better choice when temperatures are below freezing. The stuff you find at hardware stores (like Brush-B-Gone) is generally the water-soluble salt form.

Yup^. Late fall into winter is the preeminent time of year for such cut/treat applications. This is exactly the right time of year for what you are doing, Shiltsy. Bravo!

+oM

I stand corrected; although giving the insolvency of the ester forms after application, I wonder if they actually finish off killing the plant in the spring when it tries to start growing. These are, after all, growth regulator herbicides.

Nhbabs, thanks for your pictures. At least these weed species produce something useful. I don't have buckthorn thank goodness, but I've been on an all-out assault on oriental celastrus to try to control it. One thing I bet you do not turn is the native grapes! I am always surprised when I cut one of those with a chainsaw, even a big 3-4" stem has an oddly stringy texture like it is 90% bark. It becomes shards instead of sawdust.

Shiltsy, you might get a zillion seedlings around that tree. It is probably one of the original planted or seeded in the area. A source of many many more Buckthorn plants over the years I'm sure....:(

I am going to have to get some of the Garlon 4 - I plan on working on more invasive shrubbery through the winter, if we have periods of little or no snow cover. It's a great way to get exercise, plus we can only burn brush in my town Jan 1 - May 1. Want to try the basal bark application as well, which I've never done before because I've always used the water-soluble type of triclopyr.

Nice ornaments Nhbabs! Very cool! I've seen some pictures of bittersweet furniture, but I can't imagine it lasts very long. In my experience the wood seems much softer.

After cutting bittersweet vines I treat the stumps and then let the vines dry out on the trees for a couple years, then pull them down. By that time the wood breaks up pretty easily. The buckthorn stays hard for years.

I'm pretty sure the one that I took out this weekend was the first one. It was right in the corner of an L-shaped woods. The 50 yards around it are infested and as you get further away, the natives become more predominant.

I think we've all seen state champion buckthorns! I've seen plenty of them just like your big'un. Somebody here-was it you Terrene?-was wondering about how common buckthorn got here in the first place, it having no real obvious aesthetic attributes. Just since then, I ran across some old paragraph wherein the author was stating these plants were indeed brought here for their ornamental attributes and their ability to form dense screens. Uh yaaaaaa.........we get it! But man, there are sure a lot of other plants that will do that, without seeding the entire continent with offspring!

Basal bark app is another good one. Thoughts vary on how much of the basal bark actually needs to be treated, but suffice to say, depending on the situation, this could be another relatively low-cost way to attack the BT. Very generally speaking, basal bark apps are a little more likely to yield off-target effects, depending, of course, on the care taken by the practitioner. It is pretty easy to overspray.

+oM

Yes it was me WITom - "ornamental attributes" huh? No flowers to speak of - misshapen form and scraggy dark bark - ugly leaves. Berries are ornamental and they feed the birds, but that's the major problem with them! Actually IMO R. charthartica is a little more ornamental than Frangula alnus, as it grows in more a tree form, but neither one is going to win a beauty contest.

I think I read somewhere it was planted to secure embankments. The roots are quite sturdy. I tried to dig out a medium sized glossy BT one time - and said NEVER AGAIN. When I was younger, and dumber, and had more energy, I used to dig out big shrubs like burning bush and honeysuckle. Now I just cut and poison, haha.

Re: the basal bark application. Is spraying the typical method of application? During the winter, I assume spraying would also hit the bark on other woody plants?

There is a local guy who uses a paint roller (long with a small roller cover) and paints it on the stems. Also read you can use a paint brush.

I am wondering what the best method to use is that doesn't make a big mess (or overspray too much). I can easily imagine spilling the stuff all over my gloves, the ground, etc.

Thanks for this info on winter herbicide application. It is my slow time garden-wise, and there aren't ticks to worry about, so it is good to have info on herbicides that will work over winter. Do I have to worry about migration to other plants or through the soil?

In cold weather the oil based stuff has the consistency of a light weight motor oil. I've been pouring into a small container and applying with a paint brush. It adheres really well and pools up if I cut out any notches.

Yup^. Whatever works, really. Some folks like the speed of a sprayer, others like the greater neatness of a brush or roller. I see no harm in either method.

Can't remember if it was here or not, so if I'm repeating myself, forgive me, but back in the mid 1970s, my brothers and I must have been the very first guys in this area with X-Country skis. A local nature preserve we like to ski at had all these shrubs with nice glossy bark and rather attractive black fruits which showed up nicely against the white snowy backdrop. OK, I was young and dumb then, not yet realizing what I was looking at, nor what it was doing to the place. I got the message a short time later. BTW, that nature preserve is actually what's known around here as a "cedar swamp", a big wetland full of Thuja occidentalis, along with tamarack, birches, maples, etc. They've spent a good bit of dollars and effort since then in attacking that buckthorn.

+oM

What we've been doing in the winter is leaving trunks 3 feet tall or so, and then we go back in the spring and cut them close to the ground and treat with concentrated round-up.

Have you done it in this manner before? Seems like more effort for possibly lesser results, at least at first look. You're there already-why not do whole job? Plus, will chemical be absorbed when applied so long after initial cut?

+om

We don't do the "whole job" in winter in large part because there's too much snow cover to cut them down as low as we will want to in spring, and I don't trust the tree's circulation to be strong enough in winter for the poison to work, while I know cutting the trees to 3' tall in winter won't kill them, so when we go back in spring and make a cut much lower down, the poison will be absorbed.

We have lots of very large buckthorn, and a large part of the work involved in clearing the buckthorn is cutting down and disposing of the brush, which is easier to do in winter when there are no restrictions on brushfires.