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wisconsitom

Where to obtain "Autumn Blaze" maple whips

wisconsitom
10 years ago

I know, I know....way over-planted. Hear it all the time. Well, I've got a certain affinity for this tree as it was my doing that first brought it to the city where I happen to live. Furthermore, it has done nothing but impress me more and more as some of the earlier-planted ones begin to mature, in terms of truly great fall color. One caveat that I'll readily admit-this is not a plant it and forget it tree. It requires considerable leader training and subordination pruning to develop a decent structure.

So, with all that out of the way, I wish to source some for of all things, a "native restoration" on bottomland my son owns. There are already straight silver maple present, as well as numerous green ash-this in the very epicenter of this state's emerald ash borer area. So we want to get some other stuff going. I suggested Acer freemanii so that we could boost the fall color palette. Son liked that idea, and I have yet to see anything in that hybrid species yet that beats "Autumn Blaze". Ideally, just some little 2 or 3 footers.

We're also opening up some areas, so that we can get some tamarack and northern white cedar to return to that area. They were surely present at one time. But for this query, just wondering what good sources any of you know of for the maples.

Thnx.......+oM

Comments (15)

  • whaas_5a
    10 years ago

    Believe it or not Steins might have them. You could always email/call and see if they can order you some. I've special ordered before.

    I remember 2 gallon plants for $20.

    Otherwise contact Heritage Hill Nursery, which is in Cedarburg. Jason can order from Bailey's and I can almost guarantee bareroot, 1 gallon or 2 gallon for a nice price.

    No reason to defend Acer freemanii. For a lawn tree its a champ around here for drought tolerance and red fall color.

    If you could only pick one freemanii I might suggest other cultivars but Autumn Blaze might be easier to find.

    Would you consider other plants like Bald Cypress?

  • wisconsitom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi Whaas. We did mention bald cypress in our initial discussion. I like them but for my money-OK, for my son's money-I'd prefer to use what little open, sunny area we end up with for tamarack. Otherwise, who knows? BC could show up some day. This is only the very beginning of a long-term project.

    Thanks for that Heritage Hill tip. I did not know about them. We're still getting to know that area, but that sounds just about ideal.

    I have yet to see a better freemanii than AB. Not saying there isn't one-I just haven't seen it. What do you like?

    We planted a few "Sienna Glen" for a project here at work recently. Too soon to tell much-they appear to have a bit more delicate, rubrum-like branching structure. But the ABs around here, like I've said, just seem to be getting better and better. In any case, I appreciate your not jumping down my throat at the mere mention! Commonality is very often a positive thing in my view. It is the very common species that give an area its character, not some one-of-a-kind magnolia hidden somewhere in a backyard, lol!

    +oM

  • whaas_5a
    10 years ago

    I'd agree that Sienna Glen is much more delicate and refined...I actually like it. However It has more of yellow fall color so therefore I select Sugarmaple over this one.

    Personally I dub Autumn Fantasy as the premier fremanii cultviar. Firefall and Matador also show promise. One for earlier fall color and the latter for late fall color.

    The winners of fall color year after year in SE WI are Ash, Sugar Maple and Freman Maple. You just can't argue it. Freman maple is the ONLY way I can get vibrant, reliable red fall color from a shade tree.

    I'm only touting these right now because of your spot. These plants can handle flooding and alkaline soil.

  • wisconsitom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Yup, yep, and yes! I especially enjoy seeing the white ash peaking out from the Kettle Moraine hillsides, down your way. What a loss that will be.

    I'm going to check out 'Autumn Fantasy' and those two others. thanks much!

    +oM

  • ginkgonut
    10 years ago

    I have been impressed with the color so far on my Firefall. It is more orange than AB and colors earlier. Some years it is defoliated by the time my neighbors AB is at peak color. She is out there some years raking up after it very late in the season.

  • wisconsitom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks, Ginkgo. I did take a few minutes to look at the specs on the various offerings. I'd say it's still likely that AB is the best choice for what we're trying to do-add some reasonably shade-tolerant trees to the mix of species to be used in this restoration/forest management project. I guess what I like about AB besides the late red fall color, is the very "tree-like" growth form. Sorry about that somewhat idiotic description, but of the various offerings, AB seems to be the most like the forest trees with which it will be associated. Not sure if I can quite explain that, but anyway, thanks again.

    +oM

  • j0nd03
    10 years ago

    AB is supposed to be sterile. What are your plans for forest succession in the area? Let the natives trickle in and eventually claim the designated spot? (Obviously, this question is confined to your remaining and hopefully long lifetime in control of the property)

    John

  • arktrees
    10 years ago

    Tom,
    Of course plant what you like. I'm late to this thread (too much work this week), but did want to comment on Autumn Fantasy aka "DTR 102". See the link below for a picture of our own tree in the fall of 2011. I tend to agree with whaas about these. IMHO, AF is a better cultivar than Autumn Blaze. We have had one planted since 2008 (1" caliper at the time), and it has grown ALLOT since then. It is now about 25' tall (have not measure it yet this year), and 7" caliper. What I like about it, is that it is more spreading tree in shape than AB. AB tends to be an upright oval, to perhaps a pyramid on top. Or at least those called AB here anyway. The leaves of AF are a good deal larger, and it generally is a darker more brick red fall color than AF. Now to me the color is a wash, but it not just the same ole color. It has been very resistant to late spring freezes (low 20's after budding out has been no problem), and early fall freezes have not bothered it either. Lastly, it grows significantly faster in our yard than Autumn Blaze. Even so it has suffered NO storm damage, while our Autumn Blaze has lost a branch to a very severe storm before. The biggest downside to me is maintaining a central leader.Ours at least, has tended to throw up new leaders on the side of existing leaders. At least the parent tree had survived MANY ice storms (at the time of patent) with little damage, so it appears to be very tough just the same.

    Of course, plant what you like. Just wanted to add personal experience that may or may not be beneficial to you.

    Here is a link that might be useful:

    This post was edited by arktrees on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 18:04

  • whaas_5a
    10 years ago

    Here is the patent

    I forget to mention that when I was at Minor's earlier this spring the block of AF compared to AB had notably superior branching structure. One after the other.

    When I returned in fall....AB was still fully stocked. Only a couple AF left.

    I visist all local nursery in spring and early fall to see how things perform and sell in containers and b&b. Once in awhile I find a gem for myself! Too bad SE WI is a crappy market for gardening though.

    This post was edited by whaas on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 17:44

  • arktrees
    10 years ago

    I forgot to add another important characteristic. Our tree has flowered a couple times, but has yet to set a viable seed. It has held on to a few seed pods, but they never have developed embryos. I don't know why that is, but that is what happens. Not like there aren't a few million red, silver, and hybrid red/silver maples around either.

    To add to whaas comment, a local nursery with several stores got allot of them for the first time last year. Manager told me that he had not seen them before. Now he likes them allot. They sold VERY well.

    Arktrees

  • wisconsitom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks all. Some very good points raised, and questions asked. I think that to provide necessary context for this project-and whaas, you'll totally get this-the absolute number-one issue is buckthorn. Before we even pick up a shovel, we have to decide if we're going to try to tackle that issue, and if so, how. We're looking into grant money as I know this is an expensive proposition. And my son, of whom I'm very proud, runs his own software business and simply could never find the time to tackle this on his own, or even with the old man's help.

    Then on to the trees, the fun part. I am very intrigued by the AF comments. I may have to re-evaluate. I've said it here before but AB is def. not a plant-it-and-forget-it tree. Maybe in semi-shade in amongst other trees, it might actually behave a little better, but you all know how bad the v-crotches, included bark, etc can be with this cultivar. So, if AF is even just a bit better in that regard, it would be worth it.

    Can't remember if I said this already, but the real prize will be if we ever get the site in sufficiently manageable condition for some native conifers, most notably tamarack and N. white cedar. But of course, for those to amount to anything, we need sunlight! Given the preponderance of green ash already here, many of them in poor condition, openings can and will be made.

    In the meantime, and because there's so much shade, my mind drifted to maples. The site being utterly unsuited to sugar maple, I went to freemanii. And truth be told, there's a dearth of red fall color, so any that we could add would be an aesthetic bonus.

    Thanks for the nice and useful comments. This thread is turning out better than I thought it might!

    +oM

  • greenthumbzdude
    10 years ago

    lawyer nursery

  • wisconsitom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks green. Yeah, Lawyer's usually have most any common item.

    When the times comes-as I said, we have bigger fish to fry first-it might just come down to what that local place can get us. This is a fun project, but not really a big one. I guess it's all a matter of scale; There's a number of acres here, but it's not like our up-north project, where we're really working on expanding and augmenting a forest. This is like that project, Jr.

    I just like the idea of some A. freemanii to add some red tones in the fall, while also giving us a reasonably shade-tolerant tree to work with.

    +oM

  • gardener365
    10 years ago

    Better add some Carya ovata ( : And how about Acer rubrum (varieties) ?

    Dax

  • wisconsitom
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The whole point of Acer freemanii is to have the ability to grow a red-fall-foliage maple in areas of otherwise too-high soil pH. So, under this scenario, we have no need for the freemanii up north where our tree farm is. Acer rubrum is common and grows well there. But the project of which this post is a part, is in S.E. WI where soils are limey and not kind to rubrum.

    Shagbark hickory are, of course, great trees. And I've seen them in some surprisingly poorly drained areas appearing to do well. This is decidedly wet site here. So who knows? But like I told son, we need to paint with the broadest strokes first and that means above all, trying to begin the process of removing buckthorn, junk honeysuckles etc, and then going with what both he and I agree are aesthetically going to bring the site to what we'd like to see, as quickly as is possible in such a venture. We're both patient people, but you know how this kind of thing can go.

    So, again with view towards making the biggest impacts first, we've settled on some tamaracks where there is already enough light, and some kind of freeman maple elsewhere, while we slowly reduce not only the invasive brush species, but also, some of the declining green ash, etc.

    +oM

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