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Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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Posted by
formandfoliage 9b (Sunset zone 15) (
My Page) on
Fri, Nov 30, 12 at 14:38
I am writing an article on dwarf Ginkgo varieties for the Conifer Quarterly and wondered if anyone had any interesting thoughts about specific varieties or experiences. I grow 'Mariken', 'Todd's Dwarf' (although that name may not be correct), 'Chase Manhattan', 'Jade Butterfly' and 'Tubifolia'. Would particularly be interested in any stories of growing them in containers, esp in places with cold winters.
Thanks!
Sara |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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Sara
Look forward to reading your article. Unfortunately, cannot provide much info except that I too am interested in growing ginkgos in containers. Presently growing 'Troll', 'Spring Grove', 'Majestic Butterfly' 'Jade Butterfly', and recently received 'Beijing Gold' just before dropping leaves. Though only able to view leaves of 'Beijing Gold' for a short period of time, thought they were the most beautiful of any that I have. So much in fact that I ordered a second one and would still like to locate a larger one (unfortunately with mail order, you're not exactly sure of size until it arrives). Also have an 'Autumn Gold' and a couple of seedlings (about 4-8 ft tall) growing in containers that I intend to keep pruned to a manageable size (for as long as I can). Maybe in a few more years I will know and be able to provide more information. seventrees |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| I can't think of anything that I could add worthy of a CQ article, but please do write them up as cultivars rather than varieties (you probably already knew that...but just say'n). |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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Brandon can you confirm cultivar vs variety? I thought that variety was a more general term and that cultivar was restricted to a plant that was observed as having different properties and then grown (cultivated) to determine if those properties persisted and were reliable. Variety (in my understanding) included cultivars, seedlings which produced different properties and those plants that were hybridized or bred. Am I off base? And then part 2 - once you clear up the definitions - are all of the named Ginkgos varieties or cultivars?
Thx - so many people use these terms interchangeably, even those who should know better.
Sara |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Rough definitions: Cultivar - an organism or group of organisms chosen specifically for its/their unique genotype. Unique characteristics present in a cultivar may require asexual reproduction (vegetative reproduction). In some cases, cultivars may come true-to-type with sexual reproduction (seeds). Gleditsia triacanthos v. inermis 'Shademaster' or just Gleditsia triacanthos 'Shademaster' (here Shademaster is the cultivar name). Variety - a group of organisms with naturally occurring unique genetic characteristics. Characteristic differences that define a variety are inheritable, and seedling offspring are produced true-to-type. Varietal names are written as: Gleditsia triacanthos v. inermis or Gleditsia triacanthos var. inermis (here inermis is the varietal name). But, you are right, so many (especially the fruit peeps) use these terms interchangeably. One (but I wouldn't in this case) could make an argument that the term variety could have one botanical definition and another colloquial definition. I think it's less confusing to stick with the botanical definition when talking about plants. |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Thank you. I think that I was used to the colloquialisms as many gardeners/nursery folk (even the 'pros') use the terms that way. Of course they rarely encounter varieties as they are primarily dealing with nursery stock, the vast majority of which are cultivars. So yes, the Ginkgos will all be cultivars! I will post on the Conifer Forum as well. This article will not be hifalutin' - the goal is to let those with smaller gardens know that there are many dwarf Ginkgos around. Sara |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| More thoughts, for whatever they may be worth: If possible, I think comparisons between the different cultivars would be very helpful. I've seen lots of articles about this or that dwarf ginkgo cultivar, but don't remember one that compared more than a couple of cultivars. An overview would be really neat. A picture of as many cultivars as you can get away with would also be awesome. Oh, and I like hifalutin articles. Lofalutin articles are a dime-a-dozen online and in those "fluffy" garden magazines, but in-depth info is valuable! I don't expect to see an article about some genetic markers in various dwarf ginkgo cultivars, or something like that, in the CQ, but I do appreciate stuff that adds to my knowledge and appreciation of the subject. Best of luck with your project. It's great that people take the time to write things for publications like the CQ. I'll be on the lookout for your article. |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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Brandon, if you want to pm me on any thoughts that you have about comparisons it would be most helpful. I am somewhat hampered by being mostly limited to my own experience and the fact that I am in a warm climate so, for example, growing trees in containers does not present the challenges that it does in colder zones. I have solicited input from others but most is not forthcoming.
Thx!
Sara (formandfoliage@gmail.com) |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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Ginkgo biloba 'witches broom'
4-16-2012\DSC00634 |
another shot
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another shot of same...'Witches broom'
4-16-2012\DSC00634 |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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Heres a little Ginkgo Biloba 'Chi Chi' sport'n that nice banana yellow color.
4-16-2012\DSC00634 |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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Alan I want that photo too - can you send?
Sara |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| No problem Sara, I will tonight. |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Is anyone willing to share/trade some cuttings of dwarf ginkgos? I currently have Todd and would like more. I graft trees all the time and have a few ginkgo seedlings I can use for rootstocks. One thing that confused me about grafting dwarf ginkgos at first, its the scion that creates the dwarfing effect, not the rootstock. Dwarf ginkgos have all been selected from witches brooms. Hope someone is willing to swap some cuttings with me. Thanks, John |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Little John, come on man, you aren't new to Gardenweb. It's not appropriate to hijack someone else's thread to post your own trade request! I wouldn't blame you for posting an exchange request in this forum, since you probably wouldn't find as many tree folks in the Plant Exchange Forum, but at least start your own thread and preferably label it "Wanted: ...." so people will know what its about. |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Wow, sorry if I didn't follow some kind of special protocall. Hope I didn't offend too badly, I wasn't trying to hijack. I'll try to follow your instructions next time brandon. Thanks, LJ |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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You didn't offend me...I just wish that I had something to offer. Mine are all still so small! Scarcity of scion wood is the biggest frustration of dwarf Ginkgo propagators!
Sara |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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Thanks Sara, I can totally understand the lack of available cuttings on the dwarf ginkgo. As I understand it, being from a witches broom, the cuttings that have been collected grow super slow. Its a hormonal imbalance that causes them to grow at different rates. They were described to me by a guy in the nursery trades like this: there are 1/8 speed, 1/4 speed, 1/2 speed growers. Some dwarves will grow at different rates depending on their hormone levels. My Todd tree is probably 10 years old (5 when I bought it) and its about waist high without the pot. Good luck with your little tree!
Peace, Little John |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Ok, THESE are cool. I just did some searching, I didn't realize there were so many dwarf Ginkgos! I've always liked Ginkgos, but never wanted to dedicate yard space to one, but the dwarfs might fill that void. |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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- Posted by ditas z4-5 Iowa (My Page) on
Sat, Mar 16, 13 at 22:31
| WOW! Just caught this thread & so thrilled & amazed to learn something new (been absent for a while)! Getting old & am still enslaving to my30+++ y/o Ginkgo Tree Prince turned Giving Duchess! Am lamenting the thought of having to give her up if her generous giving nature does not get interrupted by a week or so of freeze at her flowering time or a new remedy we're trying works! I was keeping my fingers crossed so hard last season, after a *birth-control* hormone shots all around her trunk was given! It didn't deliver save for a retaliation w/ such vengeance!!! 'Am seriously inquiring on a *Praying Hand Sculpture* to turn ten ft of her trunk hgt, if this year's hormone shots fail once more. I'd find a piece of soil left for one or two of this *A whole new obsession!* as Sara prophecises!!! |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties**
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- Posted by ditas z4-5 Iowa (My Page) on
Sat, Mar 16, 13 at 22:39
| BTW my ? ... would these new *Designer Ginkgos* not eventually revert to the original giants they were grafted from? TIA |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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ditas,
Yes there can be reversion back to "wild type", though some are far more stable than others. There are many biological reasons for this happening, and the mutations that cause the dwarfing are not all one and the same mechanism. Suffice it to say, that one need to be aware, and if you were to see a suspected reversion, then remove it. Same thing happens with Japanese Maples and many other plants. Arktrees |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| From what I can tell, there is not a single variegated Ginkgo cultivar on the market that is stable. Every time someone tells me that one particular one is stable, I find several other folks who tell me that it has reverted aggressively in their experience. I am trying 'Sunstream' but I do not have high hopes. Fighting aggressive reversions is not a fun part of gardening for me. For this reason I have eliminated almost all variegated Phormiums from my repertoire. If you have a variegated Phormium that hasn't reverted, you just haven't had it long enough. I fear the Ginkgos are in the same category. Sara |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Per the ICNCP: "A cultivar is an assemblage of plants that (a) has been selected for a particular character or combination of characters, (b) is distinct, uniform, and stable in these characters, and (c) when propagated by appropriate means, retains those characters." Hmmm... |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Yep. And a lot of the Ginkgos were never registered... |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| Ever seen a list? If it were up to me, every ICRA would be required to publish a free online and publicly-available list of their accepted cultivars. I think only very few do. I know this is off-topic, but does anyone know of a list of the ICRAs that do provide such a free, publicly-available list? |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| I can call the registrar - he's the registrar for all conifers in North America (in this case Ginkgos are included). Another problem is that the funding for doing the annual survey has dried up so one hasn't been done in quite a few years - I'll have to look back at my notes for the exact year. Makes it really hard to know what you're getting. |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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- Posted by ditas z4-5 Iowa (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 18, 13 at 22:17
| So, for now we can safely say that these new *Designer Ginkgos* are still unreliable as guaranteed Dwarfs, just as Guarantees on Male Ginkgo trees? BTW any of you have thoughts about the *Fruit Inhibiting Hormone* solution shots? My arborist installed injection pegs (a few inches apart) around the near-base of my Duchess Ginkgo. Last season's efforts failed due to our very odd season last. I'll give it another try this early spring before making an irrevocable decision! |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| ditas unless the plant has been registered (and even in some cases when it has been) there just isn't enough of a documented growing history on most of them. I just saw a Ginkgo labeled 'Witch's Broom' in a nursery yesterday that was easily 12' tall, maybe taller. If indeed it IS 'Witch's Broom'/'WB' than that is taller than anyone would have thought one still for sale in a nursery would be...of course it could be 25 years old but unlikely...this cultivar is advertised as anywhere from 3-8' in 10 years. Sara |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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- Posted by ditas z4-5 Iowa (My Page) on
Tue, Mar 19, 13 at 9:45
| Good AM Alley_cat! Are those pics of true-blooded *Whiches' Broom* from our fave fossil tree parent or a mutation from a seedling or grafts? How old & how tall is your *Chi Chi* she looks like a good age gal, judging from the girth of her pretty leg? Just a consumer here ~ am ok w/ non-hifalutin readings! So excuse my efforts & do enjoy the challenges or learning. But truly, Sara's predicted *A whole new obssession!* is beginning to nip at me (however won't join the *Broom Hunters Club! Have no more real-estate for yet another Hyd'ra, much less Divas that require fashionable winter-coats!!! I just returned to easy-gorgeous roses & Clems in deference to tight real-est. issue! (Not done evolving ~ as Ken Adrian asked in another thread). |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| I've grown quite a few over the years. The smallest dwarf I have ever seen is 'Munchkin', though there are lots of new ones being selected in Europe that are even better. I will see if I can find links for some. What about weepers? 'Ross Moore' is a true weeper and should become more widely available (and popular) in the next few years. |
RE: Ginkgo biloba dwarf varieties
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| In the words of the North American registrar for Ginkgos, 'no Ginkgo is going to weep like a cherry' so one needs to temper one's expectations a bit, it sounds like. There is so little known about 'Ross Moore' that we'll have to wait to see what it does. Also, since it was found as a growing plant, not as a broom, its sex is unknown as well. |
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