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Let's pretend ....

Posted by floral_uk 8/9 (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 29, 13 at 14:46

...that you live in a climate where there is rarely ever a heavy snow load, where there is rarely ever a tornado, where there is rarely ever a hurricane, where there is never an ice storm, where there is almost always sufficient rain and where the fruit of a certain tree don't self seed. Are there other reasons to hate Pyrus calleryana?

I was admiring a few today where I work - lovely shape, good compact size, lovely autumn colour and still in full leaf. Am I wrong??


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Let's pretend ....

"...the fruit of a certain tree don't self seed."

Well, it sounds like it isn't invasive so why not enjoy it! And plant as many as you want (as long as you are planting at least as many natives as you go), it isn't going to escape culitivation.

Over here, there are numerous non native species to admire that don't spread ther progeny around. Ginkgo comes immediately to mind. It may pop up a volunteer here or there, but they've been grown over here for a very long time and we still haven't had a ginkgo invasion.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

I shan't be planting any as I don't have any land to do so but I am enjoying the ones I see around the place. Some are in leaf until Christmas. There are many trees I prefer but since Pc is innocuous in all other ways over here I can't hate it.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

Yes, according to the conditions you outlined, enjoy away. But.....and there's always a but......many species did not seem to set fruit/form viable seed/spread willy-nilly across the landscape......until they did. Almost the textbook definition of many of our worst invasives. Everything was fine at first.

+oM


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RE: Let's pretend ....

Well there is one other consideration. If that tree is planted in a place where it did not evolve then it likely offers fewer "ecosystem services" to the critters that did evolve there. So few insects (if any) will find nourishment in the tree's foliage although they certainly may get pollen and/or nectar from it.

However, all things in moderation ... a tree or two doesn't make a difference but a lot of them would start to cut into the ability of that area to support a certain number of insects ... and by extension ... the ability to support birds and others that rely on insects.


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RE: Let's pretend....

Hmmmm... just noticed the user that made this is floral_uk not our botanical bestie flora_uk. This topic seemed a little out of character for her.

My dear friends, I do believe we are being trolled... at least the account is several years old (2010)

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Fri, Nov 29, 13 at 18:46


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RE: Let's pretend ....

My neighbor's callery pear fell apart on a beautiful still summer day.....most of them fall apart in a storm, but I think they all eventually fall apart regardless.

I think some posters here have complained about the odor of the blossoms. If I smell them up close, I see (smell) what they mean, but I never notice it just walking by.

They are nice looking trees.....flowers in the spring, and long lasting fall color.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

" where the fruit of a certain tree don't self seed. "

I think this condition has eluded our cloners in the past, or they just plum lied.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

j0nd03 - well spotted. But,no, it's me. One day I could no longer log on to GW so I had to re enlist. I've no idea why it says 2010 because I did it this year. How can I prove my id? Shall I tell Ken not to get tetchy? (Tell them it's me, Ken.)

The fact that you suspect trolling shows the depth of the hatred for this pear. You think I must be playing devil's advocate. But no, it's just that there are two of these trees at work and at the moment they look wonderful. There are more planted around the green at the bottom of my road.

Regarding natives we do have a wild pear here and there are invertebrates which will live on Pyrus, although its relative lack of 'pests' is a plus point in horticulture. If we restricted ourselves to natives we'd have a very poor choice as various ice ages and being an island have meant that we have a relatively tiny endemic flora. And who decides what's native exactly? Does a species the Romans imported 2000 years ago still count as an alien?

AFAIK there has been no self seeding problem here. I own a wood and if there were an invasive issue I think I'd have heard about it. Although the tree may produce seed and it may occasionally germinate this is not the same as invasive self seeding. I don't quite understand toronado 3800's comment on two fronts. Cloners would have no interest in seeding. They'd be propagators rather than cloners if they were growing from seed. And I was only referring to the fact that they don't self sow where I live, not that they don't produce seed.

I'm wondering if it's a question of summer heat again as it is for T of H, wisteria and several others pants which seldom self sow here.

I've not heard of any 'falling apart'.

I was just genuinely interested in why it is so hated in the US and perfectly acceptable here.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

I suspect trolling based the fact that these kinds of topics show up from time to time with the intent to stir everyone up. Your syntax is still not a match for flora_uk but it would certainly be a gambit to claim such if the user flora_uk is still at large. I have my own suspicions who you are and this would be your third different identity in the last year.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

Regarding natives we do have a wild pear here and there are invertebrates which will live on Pyrus, although its relative lack of 'pests' is a plus point in horticulture. If we restricted ourselves to natives we'd have a very poor choice as various ice ages and being an island have meant that we have a relatively tiny endemic flora.

I was just genuinely interested in why it is so hated in the US and perfectly acceptable here.

Because the US does have a very large endemic floral population, we don't have a native Pyrus and this HAS proven to be a pest in large areas of the US.

Simply put - we don't need it and it's invasive!


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RE: Let's pretend ....

j0nd03 - I'm sorry that my question, promoted by genuine interest, has stirred up a conspiracy theory in your mind. It's a pretty bizarre line of reasoning that mentioning a particular tree makes me a liar.

I can't prove it and I don't know how to convince you. But I am who I say I am. flora_uk is still at large and it's me. Maybe my syntax is failing?

Here are some jolly red berries to lighten your mood.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

boy jon ... the family at holiday.. the extended family ... lol .. must really be getting to you .... to spot that extra l in floral ... took me weeks.. and frankly.. my poor old eyes didnt spot it.. until she fessed up ...

its her ....

one variable.. she left out.. and will have to test come spring.. is the scent of the flowers ..

its been compared to dirty.. sweaty .. gym socks.. left in a gym bag.. in the trunk for a week or so ...

there is no upside to flowers that smell like the spoor of the devil ... on a tree that is spoor of the devil ....

she will remember this.. when they bloom at work.. i hope she reports back ...

ken

ps: do i get a gold star.. for most and best use of spoor in one post????


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RE: Let's pretend ....

It is really her - you can find her on the name that plant forum helping folks every day with that same spelling.

Is that hawthorn, flora? How very cheerful.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

hi ken - the tetchy reference flushed you out .... have a great weekend. .... no gold star ...... your reward..... a seasonal tree ...... aaaarrrrgggghhhh .....get it away from that wall and maybe apply a dose of round up in a mustard bottle ;-) .... flora


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RE: Let's pretend ....

My mistake!

When snasxs trolled the forum then changed their name to jujujojo (who is constantly praising the Callery pear and pretty much all Chinese invasives we have here in the states) to continue the campaign, I become suspicious when topics like these pop up with usernames I haven't seen previously.

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Sat, Nov 30, 13 at 9:39


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RE: Let's pretend ....

from a ecological standpoint that tree still wouldn't support any lepidoptera and therefore would be useless when it comes to being part of any food web....plus the fruits are a low quality choice for migrating birds.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

esh_ga - the berry tree is in a local park and is unnamed but I think it's a Crataegus and possibly C prunifolia.

I'm not sure you're right, greenthumbzdude but even if that is the case the same applies to a huge number of plants we grow in our gardens. And the Callery Pear is very much a garden and parkland choice here. I've never seen anyone advocating using it in wild situations. I'm not an ecologist but are you really saying a plant is 'useless' in the food web if it doesn't support any Lepidoptera? So a plant which provides food and shelter for invertebrates other than Lepidoptera is 'useless'?

Ken - can't resist pointing out the difference between spoor and spawn. ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: It's only WIki but ....


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RE: Let's pretend ....

I like it, Flora - a rather good urban tree (always called Chanticleer pear by me) - a rather lovely silvery tone which sits well under English skies.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

Hello, Campanula. Glad to have reinforcements. Would you agree that there's no evidence of it self seeding and becoming a nuisance over here?

You mention urban tree and that is the context I'm seeing it in, either on streets or in parks and grounds. It is quite good at coping with air pollution. It is by no means a favourite of mine but I was struck by the colour of one yesterday and genuinely wanted to find out if there was some reason it should be intrinsically loathed or whether it was a function of circumstances.

I've not noticed the flowers smelling much worse than hawthorn. But again that may be a function of temperature. Maybe we just don't get sufficient heat to get the full aroma.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

" where the fruit of a certain tree don't self seed. "I think this condition has eluded our cloners in the past, or they just plum lied.

------

That meant the folks who cloned the Bradford debacle and those since have failed miserably to create one which does not pop up in natural areas here. Or they just plum did not care because they saw a chance to make money.

So either
1: they did not do enough testing and were wrong
2: they lied as there was a chance to make money
3: they were incompetent and their testing was insufficient.

Sorry for any typos. On the cell.

But yeah, if there is a non invasive Version out therr then reading the differences in tests done to verify that would be interesting and folks could plant their own urine scented Pyrus calleryana w/o changing the environment needlessly.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

Ok - I'm with you now toronado3800. I see you were using cloners to mean propagators.

I'm guessing at possibility no.1. I don't like to think that a nurseryman was that devious.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chanticleer


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RE: Let's pretend ....

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 30, 13 at 17:29

Believe it or not I actually planted a Pyrus calleryana 'Jaczam' in my yard.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

Part of the problem here is that it IS hard to pretend. This plant is a huge pest in my area - whole roadsides light up with distinctive, stinky white blossoms come spring.

There are plenty of other native trees here with superb fall color and which do contribute in many and varied ways to the food web.

It wasn't always a pest of course. The original 'Bradford' was sterile but when other cultivars came out (like 'Cleveland Select') then they cross pollinated with each other and made viable fruit. That fruit is the source of our roadside pears now.

So while I am happy for others that do not have invasive problems with this tree, I wonder sometimes if it is just a matter of time.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

So jujujojo was a troll? I was going to post a "natural" bonsai, that is near me, on their post of the mountains in Asia. Are you sure they are a troll? It doesn't matter to me either way, I can start my own thread.


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RE: Let's pretend ....

There are a few posts by jujujojo that I remember being of Asian trees. Maybe they are just living in Asia, and that is where some invasive non-natives are from? I may be wrong and they ARE a troll, but, if the Callery pear, which I don't like myself, is an Asian plant, that would explain things a bit. They, jujujojo, may be from the US, but there may be a simple reason, maybe they have lots of money and are touring the Orient/ Asia, and posting what they see. Maybe JOohnd is right also, but, if they are a troll, just try to avoid getting too mad.But remember If they are from Asia and haven't read the years of hatred of the tree in the US, they will not understand the backlash. If someone pees you off don't reply. I talk so much about live oaks, I'm sure it gets eyerolls and non replies by all but those who love the live oaks themselves, and try to make them thrive where they historically never have. Even if we have to try hybrids/ crossbreeds, to have success. It isn't likely, but maybe these more Northern (Missouri/ Pa) may have to replenish the more southern regions if oak wilt kills the southern areas growth. Not likely, but you never know, there are lots of them who have died. Sorry to make my last words about the Live oak again but, there I go again.


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