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| i have a neighbor with thousands of 8 inch oaks,cypress and magnolias who is going to cut down many of them to build a house. i was thinking i could buy a big spade for my fontend loader to move them a few miles to my farm. they are planted on a 14ft grid. is it feasable to move these big trees or should i forget it. any advice would be helpfull. can i get a super sized spade so it gets more root? |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Sat, Nov 24, 12 at 15:38
| well.. welcome.. i am nominating you for the best name ever.. lol ... i have to imagine you will need something like at the link ... googling that name further.. brings up a cost over 11 thousand dollars... if in fact it is even big enough for the stock you are thinking about .... i could buy a lot of trees that i can plant with a shovel.. for 11K ... butt then i aint you .. maybe its a tool thing.. lol now that part aside ... the issue would then become.. success rate.. and whether it is worth the effort ... besides the cost ... very large trees.. are very hard to successfully move.. short of being a professional ... with lots of experience .... ken |
Here is a link that might be useful: link
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| footnote/idea: In many areas, one can rent such a tool. |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Sat, Nov 24, 12 at 16:52
| Hey weedbutt-and yes, greatest screen name ever-you could indeed do this with a reasonable expectation of success. The 14 ft. spacing is one helpful part of this picture-should give you room to get in there and dig. Me and a bunch of others here are not especially into very large transplants. We like the better survival rates of small stuff and quite a few of us actually enjoy watching the little guys develop. But having said that, these trees are otherwise going to be destroyed and that tips things in favor of what you are contemplating. And you've already got the tractor-that's a big factor. Tell you what-why don't you investigate what it would cost to rent or buy a big spade and then, if it looks like something you might proceed with, get back to us for other helpful tips and tidbits. +oM |
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| hey fellas thanks for replying so quick. they are some beautifull bald cypress and many oaks that i would hate to see destroyed. the larger trees seem like they would do better because of deer and other factors. the spade would be expensive but i like owning equipment and being able to go in the woods anytime i wish is very appealing. i have spent the last 15 years bulldozing and putting in centerpivots for my peanut farm and am ready to start a period of tree placement around roads and ponds. what size spade is needed for these size trees? 90,100? this is a piece that i will probably have a long time and should retain some value(better than stocks).lol if this is destin to failure i would even consider planting seedlings under center pivot and transplanting when they are younger but i still feel a large spade would be best to get more roots. thx |
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- Posted by strobiculate none (My Page) on Sat, Nov 24, 12 at 22:46
| verify caliper size. multiply by ten. this is the size of spade you want in inches. larger ball size is okay, smaller is not, species dependent, but the ten to one rule of thumb is a fairly safe gauge. so if the largest trees you want to move have a ten inch caliper, you are looking at a 100" spade, and it's perfectly fine to move an 8" tree with the same spade. where the trees originally planted with the idea of being dug at a certain size? |
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| hey strobiculate, yes they were planted for moving but a down economy forced them out of buisness. thanks for the caliper info ,this is why im here. i have been reading this tree forum and it sounds like yall are talking chinese sometimes and im struggling to learn. monday im gona give a couple of spade companys a call and start talking about a 90 or 100 inch spade and to see if it will even fit my loader. there are none in the tri state area so i want to buy one. the idea is to plant the tree and a super sized rootball to minimize the damage to roots. if you fellas think i should start my own nursery and move in the 4 inch range with a 90 inch spade i will go that route. thanks for replying and i will let you know how its going. tree sugestions are welcome if they are durable food trees. oaks cypress and things like preciminon trees keep wildlife in my area. |
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| "if you fellas think i should start my own nursery and..." Enthusiasm is a good thing, but so is discretion and prudence. Without significant experience, owing the equipment is only a small part of the equation. You might however be able to work with local nurseries or arborists (you supply the equipment and the ability to operate it, they supply the expertise and bear the responsibility in cases of failure). |
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- Posted by strobiculate none (My Page) on Sun, Nov 25, 12 at 22:36
| typically a 48" ball would be oversized for a 4" tree, but there are some considerations for location and species. you're gonna fugger this one out quick...the options for purchasing a 90" spade are limited. vermeer? dutchman? i suppose a good fabricator could make one in any size...i know a guy who runs a small greenhouse/nursery/landscape business...in the winter, he builds his own equipment. i think he's in the wrong business...if you can fabricate a 50" five blade hydraulic spade with no blueprint, there are probably easier ways for you to make a better living than selling petunias...he says he sells more than enough plants and he's not sure he'd sell enough spades. regardless of whatsize your loader, there's a spade out there for it. the largest spade i know of belongs to a landscape company in the mid atlantic and gets moved on four separate trailers and assembled on site. |
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| Does anyone have any personal experience transplanting using an airspade to do a bare root transplant? With regard the birch transplant-- perhaps not but I have a property with several large ornamental trees. Almost a hundred years old. If these are cut down it would not be possible to grow them in my expected life time. The local arm of the tree mafia wants 6000 per tree to move them (of course there are no guarantees) For me that might as well be 6 million so I am going to try the air spade approach. There is lots of information on the net about digging the tree out but nothing I can find on the size / composition of the receiving hole. Seeing as the trees will have to be cut down if they are not moved I think it is worth a try. By the way most of these are crepe myrtle the biggest diameter is about 6 inches and 25 feet high. Thanks in advance for any insights. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 28, 12 at 12:23
| hey butt ... machine aside... your biggest challenge.. is NOT the moving .. its PROPER AFTERCARE ... as in figuring out how to keep the ENTIRE root mass moist.. but not sodden .. for upwards of 3 years ... minimum ... frankly.. 95% of success.. has absolutely nothing to do with the actual move or the planting.. its all about creating an environment.. at root level.. that is conducive to the tree regrowing the roots you cut off .. i like to say.. that a tree is twice as big underground.. as above.. so you might begin to conceptualize the amount of roots you are cutting off.. a very large tree ... below is a pic of a septic rebuild next to a maple tree.. for you to 'see' the root system of a very large tree ... much larger than yours .. but that doesnt matter... its what you will be cutting off ... you have the land.. you are dreaming about the machine.. now how are you going to IRRIGATE them all to insure success??? ken
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Wed, Nov 28, 12 at 17:47
| Weedbutt, one thing that seems to help spaded-in trees get up and running is to rototil a band all around the perimeter of the (moved) rootball. The idea is to create a zone of loose soil for the roots to begin colonizing. This too can help water soak down and around the ball. Of course, the soil of the ball itself will have to be kept moist too. +oM |
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| hey yall. sorry i havent responded, have been picking cotton and planting wheat. i have checked and can only handle a bigjon 65d spade on loader 13000 lb machine and root ball. that cuts out saving those trees. watering trees for 3 years is too tough for me because im going to plant hundreds and hundreds of trees. i read from acorn to tree and that is too tough for me with all the work i have to do. if i buy a 65 inch spade i should be able to move a 2 or 3 inch tree with most of roots and have a good sucess rate.(right?). i need to get them started as twigs on overhead irrigation and plant a 14 by 14 and keep the roots pruned with a subsoil plow to make ball then move when they get past---- jeez what a nightmare i have started. i think i better just order 200 trees a year and plant where i need. hopefully in 20 years 4000 trees later most will survive. thanks fellas for talking sense in me. i do believe you guys have saved me a lot of time and money.poor trees next door, that man is probably going to hire my bulldozier to take them out. at least i tried. |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Fri, Nov 30, 12 at 12:52
| Heh, Weed, yeah, you tried. The realization you're having will do you good going forward though. Planting smallish trees is way easier, all things considered, the time of adjustment to their new homes is typically shorter, and above all, trees grow faster than many people seem to realize. I'd bet you will come to enjoy watching the young stock take hold and take off! And I find it admirable that a guy as busy as you obviously are is taking the time to get a lot of trees growing.. I'll give you one example of something I've been doing. I own a few acres that are partially wooded, partially farm field. This is in the part of my state where there are still farms but they are marginal. Only a couple miles to the north, the great woods begins as there, the soil is sand, gravel, and rock. I've still got some loamy stuff though. Anyway, my first seedlings went in in spring of 08. Some of these are hybrid larch, a known fast grower. And the tallest of these must be pushing twelve feet-maybe more. That's not bad considering the initial stock was literally the size of a pencil. Norway spruce are growing like weeds there also. The best of those are not far behind the larch. Then last year and the year before, I broke down and planted some red pine. It wouldn't be Wisconsin if there weren't red pine,lol! And those things, well let me tell you, they're going to be right up with the spruce and larch in no time. So different species than you'll be dealing with down there but the point being, this is too much fun! +oM |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 30, 12 at 12:55
| thanks fellas for talking sense in me. i do believe you guys have saved me a lot of time and money. ==>> oh thank God you have the wisdom to listen to reason ... i think i better just order 200 trees a year and plant where i need. ==>> BINGO!!!! i dont know about that 14 foot on square .... but i dont do this for a living.. what about 7 foot.. so you can harvest half your stock and make some money on a smaller size ... and then leave the other half for larger??? ya know.. my county extension office.. actually has a state forester who visits often ... why are you talking to us.. forestry is really big biz.. in most states.. and there should be plenty of LOCAL knowledge out there.. right +om .... anyway ... i am glad we got you out of machine buying mode .. and into thinking about the actual trees ... 'so what' about the ones next door.. frankly.. if they were worth anything.. the guy could sell them himself.... perhaps he ought to call the extension office ... good luck and keep us posted.. ken |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Fri, Nov 30, 12 at 13:24
| Yes Ken, two important points. We're nice guys and fun to talk to and all that, but you-weedbutt-have local experts right nearby, I should think! +oM |
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| in a few years land grant institusions(extension agents) will be a thing of the past from budget cuts so i guess i have to do trial and error. hey if you need help with peanuts cotton or corn ask away. thanks yall |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Mon, Dec 3, 12 at 22:32
| Heh, I was going to editorialize along precisely those lines...but I thought better of it. True enough though, such is happening everywhere. +oM |
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