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Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (NW) (My Page) on
Tue, Nov 13, 12 at 16:14

Anyone growing this species in the midwest or central US?

I haven't heard much of this tree or its cultivars being used (at least around here) but it appears to have many great characteritics to the point where many other Acer cultivars would appear inferior.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

I grew one in my garden in St. Paul, MN. It was slow growing, with smaller leaves than typical sugar maple.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (NW) (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 13:35

How did it color up and respond to heat/drought?

Thanks!


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Being from the habitat it is in from the west, your heat and drought conditions should present little problems. IMHO, the opposite would be more of an issue. Cankers, root problems etc. I do know that there have been posts in the past on GW where these were planted in Texas, and there is at least one nursery in Texas that specializes in Big Tooth Maple.

Arktrees


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 14:28

Lake County Nursery, Perry, Ohio claims their Highland Park = 'Hipazam' is a bigtooth maple.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (NW) (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 15:55

Ark, sorry I'm not following on the canker and root problems. Are you saying this species is not adadtable to areas with higher humidity?

Ron, 'Hipazam' is a hybrid of Sugar and Bigtooth maple. Its one of the cultivars I'm considering.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

whaas,
I don't KNOW that the wetter higher humidity would be a problem, but I think that it COULD be. Just like California Oaks can't deal with moist soil in summer, and Redwoods have rep for not doing well in the east in climate zones that you would expect them to be fine with otherwise. But that is NOT always the case by any means. Vine Maple, Tulips, various conifers, and many others doe not have issues with this. I don't "know" the answer to this, just trying to make you aware of a potential issue.

Arktrees


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (NW) (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 17:08

Got it...something to consider!

I've never seen this plant available here so thats why I was doing a little hunting. The cultural requirements point in the direction that it would be a good fit but humidity is definitely something to consider.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

We grow it some in central and north Texas. No special cultivars that I know of although there is variety Acer grandidentatum var. sinuosum which has three lobes. Bigtooth Maple grows in central Texas and in the mountains in the Trans-Pecos region.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (NW) (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 20:26

I'm only aware of the cultivar Acer grandidentatum 'Schmidt' and the hybrid Acer grandidentatum x saccharum 'Hipazam' or is it 'Hipzam'?


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 20:45

What they claim the 'Hipazam' is and what it may actually be could be two different things. I've only seen photos. Anything that is supposed to be a pure bigtooth maple should be slow-growing with mostly 3-lobed leaves and fall color tending to be orange and red.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Bigtooth maple ranges from central Texas into New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Idaho and Wyoming with most of it in Utah. They're nothing more than a variant of sugar maple adapted to the environment there.

How humid does it get in your area? Anyway, I may take a road trip to Love Creek Nursery and get a Bigtooth Maple. It's close to Lost Maple Forest. Hoping to time it right for fall color there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Love Creek Nursery


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

This reminds me of Montezuma cypress vs bald cypress. The problem with Montezuma cypress is that they can't handle high humidity like bald cypress. The solution? Breed them with bald cypress to gain BC's humidity tolerance while retaining MC's near evergreen and fast growth. Funny that it had to be in China where they are not native to that country.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Lou, That seems weird. MC grow near water not too far from the Gulf in southern Texas.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Dricha,

I suppose it's the seed source but that's what Chinese botanists had to deal with and worked on it. They focused on fixing red blight problem. I noticed it on New Mexico source and Dr. Creech said the same thing too. I moved away this summer so I don't know how my trees are doing but I gave all kinds of hybrids to my brother to try out in Houston area. He said that T-407 is looking pretty good in its first year. Nanjing Beauty seems to have problems with high humidity? Who knows? I'm starting a new trial for these hybrids in central Texas when I get settled down.

Here is a link that might be useful: Red Blight


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 16, 12 at 3:19

Maybe it varies with the provenance, elsewhere in Mexico they grow on springs coming out of open scrubby hillsides where the climate may not be humid at all.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Mexico also have their own version of sugar maple. I got a new one for the new house. Samaras are big on these maple trees!


Photobucket


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Lou,

Do you think they will do alright on alkaline soil? I think a guy in San Marcos is trying some. I've got one in a pot. So far so good.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Dricha,

They seem to do fine in central Texas according to Dr. Creech. I grew one from seed a couple years ago but I ran out of space so I planted one at a neighbor's last fall or winter. It looked like it grew quite a bit during the spring but I moved out in July so who knows how it did rest of the year.

Here is a link that might be useful: A. skutchii


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Just joined GW and have been reading many of the "Hot and Dry" maple threads. As a former Northeaster looking for Fall Colors I've decided to try numerous trees down here to see what works best. I'm in San Antonio in the "toes" of the Hill Country on the NW side. 8-10 of "soil" and then rock/caliche. Testing either in ground or in pots (need pots as I can't get everything in the ground)

Shantung, both "normal" and "Fire Dragon" - planted
Caddo "John Pair" - dirt bag
Big Tooth sourced from Love Creek (in ground) and Big Tooth from online (dirt pot)
Mexican Sugar Maple (2) - dirt pots
Chalk Maple (2) - dirt pots

Also testing a Paperbark and Trident Maple.

Want to also get a Flashfire Caddo and Highland Park Big Tooth but sourcing is $$ and my wife might kill me. Maybe in the early spring...
We'll see how it all goes and will post up next spring. Fingers crossed.

This post was edited by mattm01 on Wed, Dec 5, 12 at 16:23


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Please do, Matt. I am doing some maple survival testing of my own and I am VERY interested in your results =)

I am a little unclear about the state of your maple plantings, though. Are these trees newly planted, or have they been in the ground all year (or longer)?

John


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

John, All have been planted either in the ground or in larger fabric "pots" within the past 3 weeks. I wanted to wait till the heat was gone before I got the trees. Of course San Antonio hit 80 this past week.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Excellent! You should start your own topic and post lots of pictures, especially next year, but dormant pics are appreciated, too :-)


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Nice Matt, you're really jumping into this trying everything out early on.

Shantung maples are pretty easy to grow for sure. What I've noticed after growing them since 2005...

Don't fertilize in the summer with fast releasing synthetic fertilizer. Organic fertilizer is fine.


Watering as much as possible with tap water do not really help it grow faster. It is the weather. You want summer to be as mild as possible and get good amount of rainfall to see maximum growth. Think El Nino years.

Here are shantung maples at the old house in the south are of Dallas in white limestone rubble soil (yes they are white) - Back - regular SM with typical yellow fall color. Front is Fire Dragon (planted in 2007 as 5g size). Got a big one in the backyard for the new homeowner to enjoy. At least I hope so.

Photobucket


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

Thanks Lou. A lot of Arktrees and your posts provided a lot of direction as to what I wanted to try and/or what could work. I'm planning on using a slow release (9 month) Osmocote 18-6-12 fertilizer. Both Love Creek and Metro Maples have Osmocote mentioned as something they use. I'll probably go light on the "dose" to avoid any burning issues even with the slow release. Debating using it on the Caddo though. Early posts have mentioned they prefer to "Suffer" a bit.

Any comments on A. Skutchii ? There's almost zero info on that one other that the SFA document.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

I fertilize in late spring (mid april-early may and early fall (Mid Oct-early November) with regular lawn fertilizer. That's about it. You probably can go with organic fertilizer in July if you want. Cheap ones are animal feeds like soybean meal or alfalfa pellets. 20 lbs for every 1000 sqft.

You know as much as I do on A. Skutchii. It's pretty much unknown tree that needs to be experimented with everywhere. Did you read that master's thesis by LSU student over it? SFA is probably the only one that is seriously involved with a project over it. They planted hundreds of it. It's going to be interesting in 10 years.


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RE: Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 13:55

Matt, any updates on your experiement with all those various maples?

I was digging around for info on Acer grandidentatum x saccharum 'Hipazam' again and came across this post, so figured I chime in!


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