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gardener365

Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (2)

gardener365
10 years ago

From Part 1
maximum posts reached.

Dax

This post was edited by gardener365 on Wed, Nov 6, 13 at 19:28

Comments (167)

  • lucky_p
    10 years ago

    Pete,
    I've got close to (maybe more than) 30 different pecan cultivars grafted & growing here, close to that many hickory selections, and dozen or so hicans. Pollenation shouldn't be a problem, but I'll never know what's pollenating what...
    As they're wind/air pollenized, even some of the native shag/shellbark hickories or seedling pecans in the CRP planting - and there are big mature bearing pecans in the neighborhood - could be potential pollenizers.

  • pxbacher
    10 years ago

    Yep, that'll likely be a problem with most growers I guess. Anyone who has multiple varieties is likely to have MANY multiple varieties...

    Thanks for the quick reply!

    -Pete

  • johnetwo
    10 years ago

    Hello. I live in Bucks County, PA along the Delaware River. I have 30 acre wooded lot where I have spent some time enjoying the natural nut trees, mushrooms, etc. I have often collected black walnuts and hicory's but this year I found a nut not seen before. Searching for its identity led me to your Hicans post. It looks exactly like the photo posts you have provided. This tree is only about 30 feet tall so must not be too old. I have no idea how it came to be here but wondered if you can tell me if it may be a native descendant from another tree in the local area. And is a Hican tree in PA common or uncommon. The nut was very good and I could actually recognize that "maple" hint mentioned in one of the posts. Thanks for any comments to a nut novice.

  • pxbacher
    10 years ago

    Hi John - welcome to the thread!

    30 feet tall could actually be older than you might suspect if the tree is growing in shade or among mature trees. If it is in fact a pecan or hican, the tree or nut was either planted there by someone, or the nut from which the tree grew came from a nearby tree, since any pecans or pecan hybrids here in eastern PA are outside of their native range.

    Is there any sign that the tree is grafted? If visible, this would appear as a sudden change in the appearance of the bark on the tree usually within the first 3 or 4 feet of the ground, sometimes corresponding with a sudden/noticeable change in trunk diameter.

    Any chance the property was once a farm?

    Post a photo of the nut/tree if you can!

    -Pete

    This post was edited by pxbacher on Tue, Mar 11, 14 at 22:39

  • fusion_power
    10 years ago

    treebird, sent you an email asking about scionwood but have not heard back. I could probably send you something interesting in return.

  • treebird101
    10 years ago

    Hey Fusion, I never seemed to get an email from you. I just got one from Dax. Shoot me an email again and I'll get back to you.

  • johnetwo
    10 years ago

    pxbacher, thanks for the information. I suspected it was out of its natural range. The tree is growing along the side of a driveway that runs about 1/4 mile back into the woods to my home. I only know the history of the property for the last 60-70 years, 25 personally. I have never noticed the nuts before, but there are several nearby hickories and 3-4 varieties of oak/acorns and a bitternut tree. It has never been a farm in that time, but was used as a summer campsite for a music group. The biggest problem I have is that there are 2-3 trees overhanging the drive at the point that I found the nuts and I'm not educated enough to know which one may me a hican. I do have samples of tne nuts and hulls with a nut still in it. I'll see if I can post photos of those. Thanks.

  • pxbacher
    10 years ago

    In case anyone missed it, there's a very nice article by Jerry Lehman on McAllister hican in this month's INGA newsletter. If you're not an INGA member, perhaps Jerry would be willing to email copies?

  • treebird101
    10 years ago

    Hey Pete, you can send a copy to me through email. I'd like to check it out. I got my McAllister hican nut samples from Jerry. They are very large but VERY poorly filled. Based on people I know who have sprouted some of the McAllister nuts, I don't think the poorly filled factor has to do with growing climate or duration of growing season. I think it's just a genetic characteristic of the nut. I know people from the south who have the cultivar growing and people as far north as Ohio and both nut samples are poorly filled but can still sprout when even half filled. So apparently the tree must feel the nut development is complete to be able to produce half filled viable growing seed.

  • treebird101
    10 years ago

    Well yesterday I got my pecan rootstocks in. They're all in the ground. Today I am experimenting with some very early whip grafting, yes we still have some cold 30 degree lows in the forecast for this week but last year I did some whips in early April and had great success. The grafts were snowed on about three times and I had about a 70% success rate. So I'm going to really push it this year and I will keep you all posted.

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    My first 'Hark' broke yesterday in my greenhouse.

    Gary Fernald called and is bringing pecan rootstock over for bench grafting. He digs them and heels them in sawdust in a bucket prior/after they're grafted and provides bottom heat. I'll follow that recipe.

    Dax

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    (right click then 'view image' for larger)

    Dax

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Looking good Dax. I graft on bare root rootstock right after it goes in the ground. I can see you are liberal with the wax which I feel is an important aspect of grafting only I use parafilm over top of vinyl. keep us posted on the progress of the trees.

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks.

    That's actually a deceiving photo regarding wax. I use a bud strip and then all that build-up that appears to be wax is parafilm tape.

    My wax goes on very light. I dip at 160 F.

    Hope you get great results. Don't let your cuts dry out 'in da wind' ;-)

    Dax

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Here is was my today. It was very windy and about 75 degrees. Sort of a veneer/whip graft first tied with vinyl tie tape about 2-3 inches from the ground. This is a Selbhers Shellbark hickory on Missouri native pecan rootstock.

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Now we put rubber-band elasticity to work in pulling together any gaps between the scion and rootstock. One rubber-band below the bud and one rubber-band above the bud.

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Now we create our moisture containment barrier with para-film so when this baby is calloused it should burst right through the parafilm on some nice sunny day.

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Tonight's low is going to be in the 20's and in the 40's for highs all week. 20-30's for lows all week. Lets just see what happens in the future with these grafts.

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Awesome, looking forward.

    Dax

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Treebird, you are indeed correct regarding kernel fill of
    'McAllister' hican on your Sat, Mar 29, 14 at 14:30, post when you say, "I think it's just a genetic characteristic of the nut."

    Bill Reid writes about 'Kanza' pecan:
    "Kanza has, what I term, excellent nut plasticity-the tree responds to the weather by adjusting nut size to growing conditions."

    Dax

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    I would grow McAllister strictly for novelty value. It does have incredible size. An interesting thing regarding pecans, My Kanza trees and Peruque trees are the only survivors of this winter that stood in prolonged lows in the minus 20's and highs below zero. This has been the coldest winter ever since I've lived in Iowa. Every one of my Mandan trees is dead as can be from the graft union up. All my hicans weren't phased a bit nor were any of the hickory grafts.

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Well I guess some rules are worth breaking in the world of grafting. I have so far about 80% of my whips that are starting to push buds now that the weather is finally starting to get warmer. It's a simple grafting method that gains you the advantage of earlier callousing and a longer season of growth. I counted 14 days of lows below freezing and had snow covered grafts twice in a one month time frame since I've grafted my hickories. Now the para film is poping just like the dandelions in my front yard.

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    I received a nut from a friend on here that was labeled Totten and I wanted to know if any others can confirm this nut as being Totten. It is an absolutely superior nut but looks sort of like a larger Selbhers. My job is to get the facts strait and make sure the public has this information. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. I have a photo of Totten from Bud Luers collection but it doesn't jive with this photo. Thanks

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    This is a photo of Totten from Bud Luers orchard.

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yesterday Gary Fernald grafted pecans.

    Machined Tool

    Bark Grafting

    Congratulations on your success, treebird. Great results.

    Dax

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Thanks Dax. Now it's time to do some flap grafting. Great videos. I really need to get on with the Iowa Nut Growers, seeing I live in Iowa.

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    ahh, you have your own associations. live and be free.

    j/k.

    Dax

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Hey Dax, Can you get a hold of Mr. Totten to see which photo above is the true Totten? I thought you might have connection with him. I'm interested in this cultivar. Thanks

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Many don't realize the beauty of hickories as they begin to bud out. Here is a "bullnut" hickory cultivar yesterday during a 95 degree day in the morning.

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    24 hours later. Today we have an extension of that beauty on the same tree. Some cultivars have red bud scales that from far off look like a blooming magnolia tree.

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I just spoke with Bill Totten. His Dad discovered/named Totten, anyhow... Bill said he believes the photo with the thicker shell is a nut off the parent tree and that the thinner shell is off of a grafted tree. He said he can't swear to it but that's nearly as good a conclusion as he could draw... furthermore Bill said his son has molds of a Totten and would be bringing them over to his home, sometime, soon. Bill also went on to say that vigor of rootstock can change the nut to certain points of degree... but he believes both are Totten.

    Regards,

    Dax

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Thanks a bunch for searching that out for me Dax. Mr. Blankenship thought that was very interesting. We just need RPinSENe to chime in and let us know what he has his "Totten" grafted to because the nuts being produced on his tree are outstanding. I was also impressed with the "Longnecker" nuts he sent.

  • treebird101
    9 years ago

    Late spring beauty here in Iowa.

  • Greg
    8 years ago

    I'm going to revive this great thread to ask a few questions. First how many frost free days do shellbark hickories need to ripen nuts? I usually get around 145 to 160/yr. I am in zone 6b so temperature is not a problem.

    I saw that the shellbarks actually like slightly alkaline soil and this is a huge plus. As a comparison to other nut trees people grow black/Persian walnuts and butternuts here with no problem.


    Are these hickories worth buying?

    http://www.starkbros.com/products/nut-trees/pecan-trees/missouri-mammoth-hickory-nut

    I am having a hard time locating any hickories/hicans cultivars even for next spring so I may resort to starkbros.

    Last I don't have much room so I was wondering if I could plant two trees a few feet apart and treat it like a single double trunk tree? Thanks Greg

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    That particular link is simply a shellbark seedling. You'd be waiting 15-20 years for it to produce and the likelihood the nuts crack easily and the meat is easy to remove is pretty much nil. You want cultivars.

    Sure you could plant two trees close to each other. It happens in the wild all the time.

    Seed provenance/Cultivar provenance is going to vary for how many days for a shellbark to mature as with pecans/hicans/other hickories. From Google: "frost-free period within the range of shellbark hickory is from 150 to 210 days."

    Grimo Nut Nursery has trees available but will be shipped next spring.

    Dax

  • robert_2007
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Dax, is right about nut tree seedlings. I have never had nut tree seedlings turn out to be worth anything. In my location in Connecticut, it has taken around 15 to 30 years just for name vareities of hickories and hicans to start bearing. My best hickory here, is Yoder # 1. It started to bear after about 15 years old. My Keystone is just starting to bear after some 25 years. My James hican is just starting to bear after some 20 years.

    I have had nothing but disappointment with Stark Bros. Grimo Nut Nursery is a good choice. I have always been pleased with what they ship. Plus, Ernie Grimo has always been available, even when I had questions, and was not placing an order.

    I would suggest any one looking for grafted nut trees to place their 2016 orders now. Most of the people I know in the industry, are indicating there may be a shortage by next year.

    My biggest mistake was not testing my soil before planting. Here nut trees require huge amounts of fertilizer. The trees will grow fine. But, will not produce nuts, unless there is plenty of food for the tree.

    Bob

  • Greg
    8 years ago

    Thanks for the info, I have gotten an email bake form Grimo concerning ripening time and they think I should be ok with really early varieties.

    Robert

    That is a long time to wait for a tree to start producing, I can understand why they aren't planted more often. I am torn between planting far north pecans or hickories. I have never had either fresh off of the tree but hickories are supposed to taste better but pecans produce earlier.

    Which one would do better in alkaline soil? Although I haven't had my soil tested the extension said that most places in Utah have plenty of nutrients except nitrogen. This seems to hold up with what I have noticed while fertilizing other trees i.e. they don't look like they have deficiencies and really only respond growth wise to nitrogen fertilizers like ammonium sulfate.

    This tree will also be the main shade tree in my back yard so it will function an an ornamental as well. I really only have enough room for one tree but may just place too pecans next to each other or plant a self fertile hican like Burton.

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Burton tastes like a maple flavored pecan. It's extremely delicious.

    Dax


  • robert_2007
    8 years ago

    I don't know anything about raising pecans in Utah, and what will or will not work.

    What works in my location in Connecticut, may or may not work in Utah.

    I did however see a article on the internet about a pecan farm in southern Utah.

    Thompson Family Pecan Farm

    Bob

  • lucky_p
    8 years ago

    Greg,
    You might look up and contact some of the pecan folks at New Mexico State University... they're probably the folks with the most experience growing pecans/hickories anywhere in proximity to your part of the country, and may be better able to make recommendations than those of us in the Southern or northern/midwestern pecan belts.


  • Greg
    8 years ago

    I think that I am going to order the Burton hican and just see what happens. Like I said I need a shade tree anyways and if it just so happens to produce nuts every so often I am fine with that.

    I completely forgot about the pecan trees in southern Utah! They are in a climate that is an average 10 degrees warmer so if it is 100 here it is 110 there. Also they have a growing season that is quite a bit longer. It does make me feel better about the trees adapting to the soil and alkalinity.

  • lucky_p
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Good luck.
    I planted a grafted Burton hican in 1996; still waiting for it(and the Bixby and Palmer planted at the same time) to produce nuts. Some other hicans I grafted after 2000 have been bearing nuts for several years...but they are pecan weevil magnets. Hican trees are handsome, vigorous growers, and make a nice shade/ornamental, even if you don't get many nuts. Not sure if a pecan or hickory understock will be preferable at your site, but if pecan is suitable, I'd opt for it.

  • j0nd03
    8 years ago

    Ordered some shellbark hickory nuts from Sheffield's and tried one for the first time. Holy cow they were excellent!

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    John I cannot message you on here because your profile isn't set to allow. Send a message to me please.

    Dax

  • gardener365
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Two nights ago a strong windstorm came thru and knocked a lot of 'Hark' pecans down. Bill Totten and Gary Fernald said this was the heaviest crop in history. It sure was fun using our nut gathers & rolling these off the ground and chatting. Gary said, "it's like Christmas and Easter came at the same time..."

    Dax

    Carya illinoinensis 'Hark' 2015 Crop

    Carya illinoinensis 'Hark' 2015 Crop

    Carya illinoinensis 'Hark' 2015 Crop

    Carya illinoinensis 'Hark' 2015 Crop

    Carya illinoinensis 'Hark' 2015 Crop

    Carya illinoinensis 'Hark' 2015 Crop

  • theloud
    8 years ago

    Thanks for the interesting thread, everyone.

    Does anyone closer to Georgia than Grimo sell grafted hicans? I'm sure they're a great nursery, it just seems odd to order trees from Canada. And are all the pecans around here likely to pollinate a hican?

  • lucky_p
    8 years ago

    Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery, at Upton KY offers a number of grafted hican varieties. NRNTN - hicans

    Stark Bros. has, from time to time, offered the James hican. Forrest Keeling Nursery, at Elsberry MO may have some; I've not looked at their offerings lately.

    Pollenation is an 'adventure'? Pecans across the two main pollenation groups will likely will pollenate most hicans, but some may need exceptionally early pollen sources.

  • Vojtěch Slavětinský
    5 years ago

    hello.gardener365

    I am interested in the exchange of cutting. I am looking for varieties carya ovata, carya laciniosa, hican.

    I offer a variety exchange

    Thank you for answer

  • treebird101
    5 years ago

    Hello everyone, sorry its been a while since I've been on here. I want to invite everyone who's interested in growing and learning about hickory and hicans to join the North American Hickory and Hican Nut Growers Group on Facebook.North American Hickory and Hican Nut Growers

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