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Wetland trees like....

Posted by Dzitmoidonc 6 (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 23, 12 at 19:48

I have about 3/4 acre to plant in trees next year. I will buy small trees like I usually do. Small meaning 2 feet or less. I order them from places like Oikos, Forest Farm, etc. that ship good little plants. I already have some wet land species.
Quercus bicolor, Q. falcata, 2 species hickory. There's already Cypress (T. distichum), Paw Paw, Buttonbush (C. occidentalis), Itea and Clethra. There are Alder and Ilex verticllata. Juglans cinerea on the edge.
Also American Persimmon, and now I know why they cut all them down around here. There's Nyssa sylvatica and a Magnolia virginiana and a Salix matsudana (weed) and a Red Maple (native, self sown).

But this year I have prepared another 3/4 acre and would like to add some trees that grow big as well as more shrubs. I have deer problems, but know how to discourage them, so deer proof is not de rigeur.

The land is sloping, floods a few time every summer, otherwise there is a small seasonal stream running alongside the land in question. The brook runs 9 months most years, every day running for the past 2 years.

The soil is clay. Clay heavy enough that I can cut bricks out of it and they will last for years sitting around. Grey dense clay with a skim of grass. The grass is some local species that grows dense, making a solid mat that can be peeled back like a carpet sometimes. Trees that need to dry need not apply.

Any candidates for such a site? Wet, clay, seasonal flooding. Prefer native to NAm. Of course any tree, alien, native or invasive that blooms all year, makes edible fruit, turns multi-color in the fall and sheds neither leaves nor branches will be considered.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Wetland trees like....

Metasequoia! Google some pics. In the millions of years sense its even native.

Nyssa aquatica perhaps? I hear nyssa sylvatica and species acer rubrum are fairly water tolerant.


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Populus heterophylla and Nyssa ogeeche...two of my favorites. Also, Chamaecyparis thyoides.


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Don't overlook Thuja occidentalis, and please, straight species, not overly dense, slow-growing cultivar. Balsam poplar, while not particularly striking in appearance will indeed perfume the air. Speaking of balsam, balsam fir handle wetness with ease too but you might get too hot for them there.

+oM


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Bald Cypress and Willow - very wet/flooded.
Pecan, Green Ash, Bur Oak, Hackberry, Elm, Eastern Cottonwood - occassional flooded/wet.


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RE: Wetland trees like....

sycamore, silver maple, American elm, slippery elm, black willow, green ash, black ash, black walnut,River birch,pumpkin ash,box elder, Red maple.....All of these are riparian species that can handle said conditions


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Quercus lyrata, commonly missed.
Carya laciniosa
Sambucus ssp.
not Dawn Redwood. Needs drainage
Viburnum opulus
Viburnum dentatum
not Balsam fir. firs need excellent drainage

I'll link you to a nursery.

Dax

Here is a link that might be useful: Reeseville Ridge Nursery


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Thanks all.

Toronado, I have Metasequoia along the edge at the top of this clay trough. Sits pretty high. Will look into the N. aquatica. With a name like that, it has to be wetland.
Looks like I need to add N. aquatica. One site I looked at mentioned a bunch of the trees I have down there. I forgot about the Quercus nigra and the Forestiera acuminata I planted a couple of years ago.

Salicaceae. I might try N. ogeche if I can find a cheap one. I forgot to add that I am in SCen PA, very close to the MD line. Not sure if the Nyssa would live, but I have Q. nigra, which is a bit out of its zone. The Musa basjoo also pushes the zone thing, and I'd love to try the fruit of the N. ogeche.
Why do you like your Swamp Cottonwood?

Tom, I have the trees you mention elsewhere on the property. Took 3" seedlings of Thuja from my sister's lawn some years ago. I also took Moosewood (A. pennsyl.), Betula papyrifera, and White Pine. I bought Corylus americana and others.
It was a stage when I wanted to recreate a bit of the Maine woods in PA. The Larix died ( it's called Pinette Rouge [Red Fir] in our dialect) , the Thuja is planted too close to a Pecan. But the Black Birch, White Birch and Sweet Birch all live. I even grew another Wh. Birch from seed and planted it near (too near) a White Pine. The Balsam Fir was planted about 10 ft from my White Spruce. Now the branches meet, something I thought would only happen when I was a doddering old man. Every time I look at that pair it reminds me of how stupid I am. Keeps me humble.

Scotute, I have a Hackberry near the Sycamore. It took a few years to take off, and I had lost the tag. One friend took a feel of those rough leaves and said the only thing it could be was Hackberry. This has been a very slow growing tree for me. The Bur Oak is interesting. I don't think it would grow on the patch in question, but I have been looking for something to plant near the other, permanent, stream. The soil there is a bit better, and the Q. macrocarpa would probably like it.

Greenthumbz, at this end of the Commonwealth, people would send the men with white coats if I planted Black Walnut or Acer negundo. Are they not a plague in Western Penn.? I have to be able to look my friends who grew up around here in the eye. Thanks for the suggestions though. I know I hadn't mentioned Black Walnut as being here, maybe I try to forget them. I did take some nuts to a friend in Machias, ME. I warned him in advance about what would happen if they grew. I suspect there are not enough heat units there to ripen the nuts. Sort of like growing a Juglans regia in Scotland.

Dax, several people mentioned Q. lyrata. When I looked it up it made me smile. Most descriptions mentioned "poorly drained clay soil". How could I not already have this tree! Definitely will go with that and the 2 Nyssas mentioned. One nice thing, when I look up all these wetland species mentioned, some site mention associated plants. Might try another Larix laricina too. Thanks for the link. That is exactly the kind of nursery I haunt. Small plants. Easy for an old lazy man to dig a hole.

Can I send you the clay I take out? Makes nice ashtrays, paper weights or defensive projectiles. You can't get it off your boot, it has to wear off.

If you can get a stand of corn in it, it need not rain the rest of the season and you'll get a crop. When the combine goes across, the tires push the water down the row, but the ground is so tight the machine hardly sinks. The corn was shelled last night, and I would guess about 120-130 bushels/ac because there was a big drowned spot on one edge. Some years when it doesn't rain and none of it drowns, it can make 150+. Not astounding for the Midwest, but pretty good corn around here.

Thanks for the responses all. The people who come after me thank you too.


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Hey Dax, for real, balsam fir is extremely well adapted to poor drainage. It's one of the preeminent conifers of the wet, northern forest in my state, albeit one which the timber folks don't have much use for! But unlike the vast majority of firs, which as you state, do seem to need excellent drainage, not so Abies balsamea. I was also surprised to learn a while back that it is considered more shade-tolerant than hemlock. Would not have guessed that.

+oM


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Tom, Abies balsamea is a pioneer species where I grew up. They colonize the fields that are going back to woods and compete with Aspen and Poplar. You can find wizened old specimens 8ft tall living on hammocks in the beaver ponds. Black Spruce is another species found in the wet ground. The rest of the pond and deadwaters are ringed with Tamarack (Larix).

Peat bogs also are peopled with solitary evergreen trees, but don't seem to have as many Fir, mostly Spruce. They stand human-like in the snow. Whatever the species, 50 yr. old trees are about 10 ft tall. No peat in the northern 1/3 of ME, but the Blueberry country (DownEast ME, north of Cherryfield) has enough peat that they burn it for biomass electricity. They also mow the woods like a lawn and feed that into a plant at Whitneyville, ME that generates electricity. Most of this biomass is Fir, but a fair amount is Spruce and Maple.


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Yeah Dz, I've seen land like that in N. WI too. The very wet and acidic conditions cause whatever species that can survive there to grow very slowly! And also yes, more favorable sites in the north woods here are frequently colonized by the same species that you mention-balsam fir, aspen, birch, etc. I love seeing that. In the neck of the woods where my woods is, northern white cedar-Thuja o.-is as likely as not to be part of this process too. Those are the sites I really like!

+oM


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RE: Wetland trees like....

Dzitmoidonc, I am in SW Pa, where (general area) are you that has this much and this tenacious clay? My freind has clay but it is orangeish and not quite as tenacious, I think her topsoil was removed when she built because the whole yard isn't like that until you dig down a little.


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RE: Wetland trees like....

York County here. Just south of the Red Clay belt that runs from GA to Harrisburg. If you sink the plow to the hilt, you can bring up the red clay. This field is a grey clay. Local area once had clays that were put in a retort and pigments were extracted. They got a grey and a blue that were used until after WWII. Synthetics were developed, and Atlantic Richfield used the mud (as it was called) and was the last to exercise their rights to it. The rail siding was abandoned in the 60s, and the mud plant closed in 1972. The mud was not mined from my land, but I had to break the mineral rights. All around here are pits (we call them mud holes) of varying depths. Some were used for farm landfills, some are full of water.


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RE: Wetland trees like....

  • Posted by jqpublic 7b/8a Wake County NC (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 25, 12 at 4:18

A wetland hickory and oak would be great.


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RE: Wetland trees like....

OK, I learned something about Balsam fir. Obliged to know.

Dax


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