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loctan

Buying Smaller Trees - When Will they ~Equal Their Larger Cousins

loctan
11 years ago

I know the title isn't terribly clear but here is my basic question - heretofore, I have purchased trees 6 to 8 feet high (1.5 to 2.5 inch caliper) for about $60. The more I learn about transplant shock and root-bounding, the more I realize that from a tree health standpoint the smaller the tree the easier the transplant will be. Frankly, you can also buy 12-18 inch trees for $10 so from a cost standpoint it's significantly cheaper as well. My question is size however.

Starting at year 0 a 6-8 foot tree obviously is much much larger than a 12-18 inch tree. By year 50 you would have almost no discernible difference in their size. I would also assume little difference at year 25 or maybe even year 15.

What would one expect at year 3, 5, or 10? The fundamental idea in my mind as that the smaller tree will take to its new environment fairly quickly and begin putting on natural growth probably in year 1 if planted in the fall. Whereas its larger cousin may still be taking to its environment and naturally un-bounding and establishing its roots in year three. So by year five does your 12- 18 inch tree's three years of growth on the 6-8 footer make them pretty equal?

I am speaking of a generic tree here (oak, maple, etc) and want to understand the underlying philosophy. Ideally there is an Excel chart somewhere that reads: Starting_Size
Year_1_Size
Year_3_Size
Year_5_Size
1 ft
3 ft
5 ft
7 ft
10 ft

that enables one to roughly compare the relative size based on age and transplant size. In other words if I can save money and effort by buying a much smaller tree now and have their year 5 size be roughly the same then it's well worth it. If the larger transplants take much better than I am expecting and it takes 10-15 years for their size to be roughly equivalent then maybe the extra price and work to transplant the larger is more cost effective and worth the effort to me.

I hope I am not making this more complicated than it needs to be. I don't think you can look at average growth rates and assume the transplant will continue that at year 1. Transplanting a 10ft tree it may take a few years before that tree kicks back into its natural growth rate...how long for a 2 footer? If it's at almost year 1 well they will be pretty close to the same size in year 3 or 4.

Thanks

This post was edited by loctan on Tue, Dec 25, 12 at 12:16

Comments (10)

  • jocelynpei
    11 years ago

    Here, in PEI, a 12 to 18 inch tree will become larger than a 4 to 6 footer planted the same year by the end of year three. By year five, the smaller tree is still noticably larger. By year ten, the smaller tree may or may not still be larger, depends on soil and moisture. I should add that PEI has very good soil, so that the smaller tree will have lots of nutrients and water. This is backwards to what you asked, being as how, here, the smaller tree does better.

  • brandon7 TN_zone7
    11 years ago

    I understand your desire to get a better understanding of this situation, but I think you are looking at it from a way, way, way too narrow viewpoint. Just a few of the crucial parameters include species (which brings us another large list of factors), environment (including soil type, climate, and many other things), and relative retained rootmass. Trying to graph the phenomenon without taking the many other factors into consideration is like trying to graph the life expectancy of animals based only on how much sleep they get per night (it's mostly meaningless).

    In general, and with "real-world" conditions, about the best you can say is that fast-growing trees will catch up with initially larger specimens much more quickly than slow growers. I've seen spindly one-gallon 'Green Giant' thujas, for instance, overtake large 6' B&B specimens in about 6? years. I would not expect that from a slower growing type of tree.

    I think the key factor here, that may be easily overlooked, is the amount or root system retained at transplant. A small non-potbound pot-grown tree will retain approximately 100% of it's roots when it's planted out. If near optimal conditions are present during transplant, roughly zero transplant shock will occur and growth can continue without interruption. A larger B&B, or containerized specimen, or whatever may loose the vast majority of its roots before being planted out. In many cases, it takes a matter of years before the tree has recuperated from transplantation and growth is slow, or even very slow, during that time.

  • ilovemytrees
    11 years ago

    I planted more than a dozen 2-3 ft trees this past spring. The online nursery sold this tree in two sizes; 2-3ft and 5-6ft. Their prices for the specific tree I bought are:

    $25.00 (2-3')
    $59.00 (5-6')

    So I bought the smaller sized trees, and by the end of October almost half of them were 6 1/2 feet tall. The others are 4 1/2 to 6 ft tall. It really depended on if they were 2 or 3 ft tall when planted. I had a mix of both. They are also not known for being fast growing trees; they're hardwood. I saved $510 by ordering the smaller trees.

    Basically, by the beginning of fall I had the same size trees they were selling for more than twice the money. Plus, it's fun (for me anyway) to plant a small tree and watch it grow up.

    As for what Brandon said, all my trees had HUGE root systems that weren't rootbound, so they retained everything they had when they were planted. I spread out all the roots as wide as they'd go, and we took the shovel and lightly loosened the soil on the sides of the hole to make it easy for the roots to grow through. And I watered the absolute heck out of them.

    So that probably played a part in why they grew so well.

  • greenthumbzdude
    11 years ago

    Some trees like oaks will get held back a few years to adjust to their new conditions. I have read that smaller trees can actually outgrow larger transplants because of this. In general oaks do a alot better if you just plant them as an acorn. Soil has a lot to do with it too if you got the right type slow growing tree will take off like a rocket and go beyond the known limits. If you hit all the right notes; organic matter,moisture,pH, drainage, and sunlight you will have a very healthy tree.

  • drrich2
    11 years ago

    "Whereas its larger cousin may still be taking to its environment and naturally un-bounding and establishing its roots in year three."

    From what I understand the tree does not 'un-bound' roots. It may grow new ones, but the old ones don't shed or straighten out.

    Richard.

  • scotjute Z8
    11 years ago

    My opinion :
    In general, 3-4' trees in 5 gallon plants are typically poised to grow the most and will within 3-4 years will typically outgrow larger trees.
    18"-3' trees would be a close second.
    The smaller trees "establish" quicker. Which means they have settled into surroundings and are growing on their own with little help. Compare this to larger trees where it will take 3-5 yrs before you can feel they have "established", if they don't die first.
    Have a 4' Cedar Elm that in 5 yrs. is at 15'. An 8' Cedar Elm planted at the same time is still at 8'. Every yr. wondered if it would make it.
    I grow just about everything from seed or small cuttings nowadays.
    Plant small and enjoy their growth along the way.

  • Embothrium
    11 years ago

    Condition of individual specimens before planting is critical to the outcome. Old, starved stock that has been sitting around in played out potting soil may never bounce back, regardless of how good the final planting site is.

  • poaky1
    11 years ago

    I like the acorn method if possible, no root loss and no waiting for the tree to get settled in etc. The 18+ inch oak whips I've planted take off year 2 in the ground. Those grown in rootmaker bags (air pruned) takes the guess work out of root prep before planting. Most oaks grow 2-3 ft in year 2 for me anyway in zone 6 with good soil moisture. In the south it may be more than 2-3 ft. I got many of mine at Mossy oak nurseries online. Prices are good. There are many varieties of oaks fom them. White oak Quercus Alba is going to take it's time getting settled in though, but it may be hard to transplant if it's too big. It (to me) is the north's answer to souths Live oak trees. It will after maybe 3 years getting settled,put on 2-3 ft growth per year. Chestnut oak Quercus prinus is very fast growing here even though it's in the wite oak family, most Red oak family oaks are fast growers, many live pretty long too,most of the white oak family oaks take a bit longer than the Red oaks initialy anyway, but they may live longer. Both red and white are going to outlive many popular trees though, you pretty much can't loose with a healthy oak transplant, Willow oak and Shingle oak can have blemished leaves in Summer, something I've noticed on them much more than other oaks (in photos) I've never started with a large tree to add that experience to this post.

  • strobiculate
    11 years ago

    If you can come up with this formula and have it be reasonably accurate, let me know. cuz I don't think it can be done.

    among other things, location of planting can make a difference. a tree planted in MN or the central plains is going to have a different rate than one planted in a coastal location, and that's assuming weather that year doesn't mess with you. Weather will make a difference. plant is a year with mild night temps and plenty of rain but not flooding, and you are going to have a different story to tell than planting in...let's say Kansas in the year 2012, when the Mayan calendar kicked in.

    I've planted 2" maples that I personally tagged and picked up a week later that suffered from transplant shock and I've planted 4" honeylucust and maples from the back end of the b&b lot (meaning they had been around for a while...like three years or more in a holding yard) that took off like weeds. I've planted bareroot oaks as large as 1 1/2" that grew like they were never dug and had problems with 4 footers.

    The argument about planting 18" and having a plant of the same size by the end of the growing season just tells us how your plant grew. It says nothing about how a larger plant would grow. If you are satisfied with the results you got, great. If someone else wants to use different plants, larger stock...there is no right or wrong, just what you would do or not do, and there are many factors that go into that.

    being a cheap bas..uhm, guy may only be one of them.

    One of the things I love about the nursery and landscape industry as a whole is the incredible diversity there is to be had. Sure, sometimes my mind goes blank as I contemplate the vast differences that exist in the innumerable varieties of, let's say spirea or hosta or daylily, but also, you can get things that are incredibly cheap or incredibly expensive that fit the same piece that is the jigsaw puzzle of your landscape.

    if you want a one gallon chamaecyparis cultivar, it's there for you. If you want a 36" version of the same thing, it's there for you. This is a diversity that deserves be celebrated. In exactly how many clothing stores do the high end fashions get stocked beside the low rent rags? I mean, other than goodwill (and I love goodwill). Do jaguar and ferrari generally share a showroom with volkswagon or ford? The marketplace diversity of the nursery industry is part of what makes it so dynamic...and that is to be cherished lest it disappear.

    and there are different reasons to buy different plants of different sizes. just because I make one choice does not mean anyone else has to or that one is better or worse...it's just the one I made, and the one you made is just that.

  • foolishpleasure
    11 years ago

    I think not all tree are created equal, if we talk about fruit trees the 8 feet tree is more mature than the 3 feet tree. in terms of fruit production it will produce the next season while the 3 feet tree may need 3 season to produce any thing. As for shade trees I think I go for the cheaper ones.