(This post is going to need to be on the long side, just so anyone reading will know that in advance..._)

Growers in other areas happening to have a lot to do with balsams or other firs (Abies_) species also of interest to me IF they happen to be in an area with wild blueberries by their site--nearby AND happening to find their blueberries getting the "witches broom" disease from firs (or it could be considered the blueberries infecting the firs_). This in the disease that makes "witches broom" disease growths on the BLUEBERRY BUSHES (NOT on the fir trees_)--looking, often, like small whisk brooms, either green and alive or dead. (This is "not" the disease that makes witches brooms on the FIRS and is sometimes called the same name. The "witches broom" disease i'm thinking of, is the other one, the one called Pucciniastrum goeppertianum, scientifically, or by another "popular" name besides witches broom, sometimes also known I guess as fir-blueberry rust; also I guess sometimes known as fir needle rust).

I start out pointing toward far north growers, because I believe that they might be more likely to grow balsam firs, since they're native up here (and also possibly in some more southern mountain areas, I think, or some other firs might be wild there or grown there on plantations. Idaho and Colorado, too, I think, as to wild balsams_).

Even more who might have experience, would appear to be northern wild blueberry growers who, I think, very often get witches broom disease of blueberries a lot in their wild blueberry farms.

All of which is a lot of talking, toward the point which is
I'm hoping to find someone who knows things of this disease sort of on the balsam or other fir tree side--things about sort of how severely, under what circumstances, how permanently (or does it happen to be or appear to be non-permanent in a fir tree that gets it?_) and maybe anything else that comes to mind, other than maybe the most basic that to some point I may know already (such as , apparently it forms lines of spore capsules or similar, on one side of the needles, capsules usually white or yellow, spores that eventually burst out or are released, may be yellow or possibly orange). Especially important might be how much disease pressure a small amount of infected trees (or maybe one really big balsam, such as I have next to my experiment site_) appear to be able to put on nearby blueberries. If I could get information to help figure out whether this big balsam "of mine" is infected, how long it's been infected, etc--basically, how much pressure it itself may have been putting, and for how long, on the immediate one acre boggy-swamp full of blueberries, that alone would help a great deal(!)

The project I'm doing and have been doing for about fifteen years, is one that's working with this disease hoping to come up with some kind of answer, other than pesticides, to control it or better yet potentially start defeating it.

I don't know if this disease is definitely a serious one with plantations that include firs such as balsams, but I did see it listed in a list of ten Christmas tree diseases and how to treat them. On the blueberry side, as blueberry growers may know,especially growers of the wild ones, to date no known existing cultivars seem to exist. And little or no treatment plan seems to be known (other than, if planting fresh, trying to locate away from firs. or,if running a wild plantation, eradicating the cohost firs nearby, either of which isn't necessarily that often possible.)

If it might be any incentive or encouragement to help, either case, tree grower or blueberry grower, would a cure for this disease stand to be a real help to your farm and your industry?

Working hard on it, and so if you have solid knowledge on this that I am lacking, I'd appreciate your sharing if you'd be willing to take a few moments !

Thank you.

--Sincerely, "mephisto," grower(of blueberries_)/experimenter in Massachusetts

I notice you posted the reply very very quickly, Guess you were online at the moment, and I'm thinking, maybe with luck, you might still be online now "or soon."
Because, I've written up and separately "saved" , a reply that I felt I wanted to make thorough enough, that it's ended up pretty long. Probably longer than the large majority of posts on most GW forums, and also possibly fairly technical or at least, minutely detailed. Probably not too many would mind if I posted the reply here, but I think maybe some would. So I guess I'm wondering, would you be o. k. with a private email, assuming your profile page allows that, from me wherein I'd send my answer that way? I'm thinking I might wait overnight, and a while in the mornine, for your possible response about where to post it. If not hearing back, probably I'll just go ahead and post it here. I think most all knowing about such matters, will be able to understand it, if other such people happen to see it (maybe eventually someone will_). I might be including a little bit of detail that ideally might be held back from public availability, this being a project I consider serious and which I at least hope to bring to possible commercial application. But time's going on, and the need key information that needs to be found seems to be continuing (as before_) to arise, and so, trying to move forward seems the most important thing.
By the way, I wonder if you maybe have a project or two of your own?
I've spent so much time researching this matter and some others of mine, that if I had any requests for research help that happened to fall in areas I'm interested in or might know something about, trying to do that a little for someones else, might I think conceivably be pretty refreshing for me, if mainly as a change of pace.

So, again, I've written up my reply regarding more details about what I'm looking for, and will probably either post it or mail it tomorrow sometime, depending upon whether I see a preference posted by you (or mailed to me if you want_).

Meanwhile, for what it's worth: others, if any , specifically interested, are welcome to comment here, or for that matter ask for an email of my followup if they have email access set up in their profile.

Thanks everybody.

About fir species, I know I mentioned balsams a lot; yet in reality, I think any true fir species, any Abies, is susceptible to the disease and would or does fill the same cohost role. One or another species, I think mostly likely it matters little which fir it is, and the same thing is apt to end up happening.

Another Maine contact maybe worth my trying to make, whether an organization or an individual grower, might I guess be a Lowbush Blueberry grower. Lots of questions for them, mostly probably about whether they would think that a lowbush blueberry plant that's had the witches broom immunity gene I'm aiming to find or find a plant containing it, put into it (the gene put into a lowbush blueberry speciimen_) would seem likely to help the lowbush blueberry industry. Mainly help by I guess being something the industry would end up turning to a lot during planting or replanting that I think they do (or "could" do_) at least somewhat (such as, replant thin spots, diseased spots where maybe they've had to eradicate an area of existing plants, etc._). I'm even speculating that in spots of lowbush blueberry perhaps heavily infested with the disease, the new resistant plants when planted there, would probably, because of their superior vigor and strength due to "not" having the disease, end up maybe being able to "take over" the area or plot as they do their natural underground spreading and reproducing.

I do agree (and may have along the way been considerably motivated by realization about_) re: the economic importance of the crop. Even before blueberries began to be hybridized and molded into cultivated varieties a hundred or a hundred twenty-five or so years ago, wild ones were picked in what seems to me pretty large quantities (was sort of a whole cottage summer industry in country areas of where I'm from, New England_).
The cultivated varieties, now enlarged upon and increased a lot in assortment, by a few of the other countries (other than the U.S.A._) first originated here in the U.S.A. as one of our many contributions to the world, And the huge huge increase of popularity of blueberries worldwide, is almost as much an encouragement to me, as the size and current expansion still i think underway, of blueberry farming here.

Seems to me "some" part or element of the industry, if not here, then maybe worldwide, will be interested in a cure for one of the diseases blueberries now get and to date have no cure, and it seems not necessarily much of any treatment for . Or so "some" of us , at least, seem to figure; though time only , I guess, will tell.

Speaking of that final test, imight you Salicaceae (or other poster_) have any info about how to spot and detect on evergreen needles, the spore capsules or related indicating evidence of ANY fir rust diseases? (I'm planning to use live , infected little fir trees, if I can get hold of a few, to run my experiment's concluding tests_)? I seem to get the idea that other similar "rusts" of first, may leave behind similar evidence of infection.
Or maybe ,I'm thinking, it'll turn out that a powerful hand lens or even a microscope that i'm thinking I may need to get, will turn out to be the way to go (?) to be able to positively identify the P.goeppertianum disease presence in the fir seedlings or young plants I end up with for the final experiment.

Due partly to my having as yet not been able to get much of any reply to somewhat extensive inquiry sent the past year or so to two (I think--having various inquiries and "feelers" out there to various places, it's a little hard to keep exact track) heavily involved in blueberry research , I've elected for now to try contacting that other type of place you mention: Christmas Tree Growers' Association (s).
But, so far , a few weeks later, no response. Of course, the timing isn't necessarily the greatest, being around tree selling time, as well as apt to be time already of some freezing already of the ground.

That University of Maine department which you mention, also may be of interest. At the same time, maybe "if" I could , before contacting them, run a test myself to , hopefully, get some sort of actual proof begun, of one or more of my specimens actually being immune-maybe that might help make my inquiry to them or to whomever, more intriguing?
Sure seems like it couldn't hurt; and in these days of easy photography and easy communicating, maybe I could at least visually document my efforts doing such actual test.

But , besides that the bushes involved are somewhat "well out" in the woods...under a foot of snow and ice I guess, around now...I still will have to somehow come up with a few young fir seedlings or young plants that have the disease (to use as source of disease spores to expose the blueberry bushes to...inside on my big plant-growing window sill, I guess).

Maybe --by some longshot chance--someone here would happen to know of and have access for digging up ,of a few young
"infected" firs trees (any kind of firs, although if it'd be wild firs rather than tree plantation ones, seems to me it'd most likely end up being "balsam" firs). Young or seedling firs "infected" with this fir-blueberry rust, that is...(the
Pucciniastrum goeppertianum one...the one that causes broomlike growths on blueberry plants, and I guess as to on the firs, causes just small yellowish or whitish spore capsule happening on some of the needles . I maybe should stress, in case I haven't mentioned it before, about the "other" kind of witches broom happening with fir trees: the "other" kind does make broomlike growth happening on the firs themselves...but that's a totally separate disease, if/when "that happens". The only ones I'd be interested in are young or seedling firs happening to have gotten the first type of "witches broom " disease, the one wherein it's only the blueberry bushes that get the brooms, with the firs , again, just getting some kind of small-to-tiny tag growths on their needles.

I do think that likely as not, patches or areas of firs of most any kind , happening to be very near (especially within maybe 50 to 100 feet[ of a bunch of wild highbush blueberry bushes or a patch of lowbush blueberries, IS by my guess, at least pretty likely to be involved with the blueberries with infection of this disease happening between them. Given these two types of plants growing nearby one another, the infection of this disease that I see as likely, might be easiest to spot the likelihood of, by checking whether the blueberry bushes have any if the broomlike growths showing. There would be pictures readily available (I think I'll also see if I can get hold of some images and post links here, assuming that's allowed and that I can figure out the procedure) to check further what to look for, online such as at Google Images, Yahoo Images, etc. (searching for , probably: witches broom, blueberry. or: fir blueberry rust).

Which, especially as to possibly making available to me, a few of these prospective "infected" young firs--would be "going some", I realize. Therefore, here's what I think (hoping there's no proscription here "against" it) I think I can offer (if anybody's not already been too bored , here, to read this far):

If anyone can find and have or get access (for digging) such an instance of little fir trees and blueberry bushes growing together, or adjacent, such that it's resulted in the occurrence of this disease, and would be willing to try to dig three or so of the infected firs for my use: than, while it'd be apt to need to be "first come, first served " and maybe only one deal available: I believe can try to make it worth your while, monetarily (make an offer?) Pictures "first," please...of the plants on the site, showing infection (typically very obvious when it happens) of some of the blueberries on the site, with the broom-like growths. Also, if possible, pics of the evidence of the disease on the little firs that would be dug. Maybe send COD, for no risk? or otherwise, putting them for me on Ebay?

I'll try to follow here, of course, for replies...while I believe my profile page does have a link for privately emailing me, if anyone wants.

"Thanks" to all.

As far as a natural stand of firs and blueberries, no doubt such things exist, but probably not on land devoted to commercial blueberry production except by accident. As you probably already know, blueberry fields in Maine and Atlantic Canada and probably elsewhere are managed wildlands. Burning off all growth on a (usually) two to three year schedule remains the basic metod to increase production and eliminate competition, fir seedlings included.