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Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Posted by
mmqc-2 Z5 NH
(gw:mmqc-2) on
Tue, Jan 31, 06 at 13:04

Ok, I'm done venting now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

If you let punctuation on this site bother you, you will go nut's. (tee hee).


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Nut's, I tell's you, just plain ol' nut's!! L'sOL!!


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Don't you wish there were a spellcheck here's?...L'sOL!
Yeah, why isn't there any? With all the new changes, one would think a spellcheck was a nice feature to have. :-(


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

This is what I use here on the forums.
Now all I really need is a grammar check!
Cathy

Here is a link that might be useful: Free Spell Checker


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Here's another: It is "I couldn't care less" not "I could care less."

That one always bugs me!


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

I could care less, but I simply can't be bothered to. One of the things I get annoyed about is the pronunciation of 'forte'. As in "Stepping on slugs while barefooted is my forte." It's most properly pronounced "fort", but nearly everyone says "for-tay". I just give a thin, superior smile and arch a brow. It gets me through the day. ; )


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

I don't mind the punctuation and grammar problems as some of them are just plain cute. I really enjoy it when the poster is too excited to really care if things are properly drafted.

That being said, my pet peeve is may/might. I use "may" as permissive and "might" as speculative.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

I'm with you! Spelling is one of my pet peeves. :)

Last week I was looking at a business card for a taxi company, it said, "We are your alterative transportation source." ARGH!

Lisa


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

It's funny Lisa, my favorite blooper signs are at the Wonder Thrift Stores in Oklahoma City.

1. Oops' we goofed (on a coupon).
2. Donats (some sort of doughnut sale)
3. Bargin Day (as opposed to more expensive gin?)

And each of these signs went to all the stores in the chain. One day I spoke with a cashier at the store on NW 23rd and she said the donat sign drove her crazy. I can't blame her. She didn't catch the bargin and oops'.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

  • Posted by donn_ 7a, GSB, LI, NY (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 2, 06 at 16:23

What an interesting thread!

"Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!"

They do if they're possessive.

"It is "I couldn't care less" not "I could care less.""

Both are perfectly correct and appropriate usages. They mean just two different things.

"It's most properly pronounced "fort",[sic, the comma goes inside the double quote], but nearly everyone says "for-tay".[sic, the period does, too]

Actually, the first accepted pronunciation is "for-tay."

"I use "may" as permissive and "might" as speculative."

May is correct in either circumstance:

aux.v. Past tense might
1. To be allowed or permitted to: May I take a swim? Yes, you may.
2. Used to indicate a certain measure of likelihood or possibility: It may rain this afternoon.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

This thread has given me a chuckle.

The one that has been bothering me is "walla" instead of "voila."

Mostly I don't care though. It's not like this is any kind of formal communication medium. It's not as bad as instant messaging either. :)


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

I'm so bad on botanical names that if I tried to use a spell check it probably wouldn't even recognize the word.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

I have twenty three years of formal education and more than that in professional experience and learning. Yet, when I come here iff eye kin git wat yer tr-eye-in' ta speek dats awl eye kair abowt;


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

MIMS, I got that, loud and clear! :o)

I like some people's version of voila : VIOLA! It seems appropriate here. I have my pet peeves, too, but I'll save them for editing hubby's stories. I know if I said anything here, it would come back to bite me. It IS informal, thank goodness! When you are sitting and chatting with good friends, you don't correct their grammar!

Catching typos in signs, ads and newspapers can be fun. One of our local classified ads papers carries a note that goes something like this:

"We aim to please everyone. Some people love to find mistakes. So, please consider any errors our way of keeping them happy, too." That's not exact at all, but I couldn't find it in this week's paper. I thought it was cute, especially since I am always noticing typos. It made me stop and think!

Another interesting thing to me is that the way I write/type is nothing like the way I speak, let alone think. They are entirely different languages! I assume we adjust our speech subconsciously to fit in with those around us. It's fascinating (but I would never say it that way). :o)

Oh, okay, just one... huge is not spelled "Hugh", that is a fellow's name! Sorry... now the karma kicks in...


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Oh, I forgot - one of the funnier things I have seen (more than once):

Friends of the Pubic Library

Usually printed on flyers announcing a book sale, or signups for the group. Gives me a little giggle every time.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

"... Some people love to find mistakes. ..."

I am always noticing typos. It made me stop and think!

I have a funny story along those lines, singingcrk. I'm an American history buff and two years ago I picked up a Lewis and Clark book while on a fishing trip in Montana. The authors and publisher were all local residents of the area of Montana that I visit at least once annually.

While reading the book I noticed several type errors. I was also dismayed to find a pretty significant text drop in one of the more interesting passages of the book that incorporated Nez Perce Indian oral history and insights on the expedition. I also noticed the book was only in its first printing and several others by the same authors and publisher have gone into several printings. I resolved to inform the publisher of the errors and drop off so that subsequent printings could be improved.

When the time came, I dutifully called and reported my findings to a nice elderly lady who had answered the phone. After a long pregnant pause, she gathered her wits and politely informed me she would let the authors know and that the publisher would be "mortified". I explained embarrasmment was not my goal and that I was actually just calling to assist in improving the next printings. I also asked whether someone could provide the missing text from the drop off in the book, gave her my address, and the call came to an end.

Well you know the rest ... I still await a response, and in retrospect I am thinking I must have provided quite a good laugh for the office staff that day.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Now, see... and you did a good thing! It probably never made it past the water cooler, but you should sleep better...have you checked to see if the book was ever reprinted?

From what I have heard (I may be wrong), most editing has to be done by the authors, now, and errors may never get caught on the way to the printer. There should be a volunteer program! I'd sign up. Then I could read without feeling guilty for "wasting my time" - I'm workin', here! :o)

I've never been to Montana. It's on my very long "someday" list, though...


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

I stand corrected Donn. One less peeve. That was a rule in broadcasting we always followed. Maybe we were just special - in the special ed sense.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

  • Posted by donn_ 7a, GSB, LI, NY (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 3, 06 at 17:56

Broadcasters have a lot of special rules. One of my broadcaster usage peeves is that people never write a book or sign a contract. They pen books and ink contracts.

Other general peeves:

there, their(thier) and they're
to and too
than for then
then for than
post as plural
post for thread
congradulations
tomatoe


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  • Posted by shimla 5 Upstate, NY (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 3, 06 at 18:43

I don't mind the mistakes people put in their posts at all. I've been guilty of it myself if I don't do a preview first. It would be nice if we could edit our post and put in a word that we left out of a sentence!

I really wish they'd fix all of the spelling/grammar problems in both the FAQ's and the rules here on GW. Those bug me because people are referencing them all of the time. Everywhere you go you find an error. "Trading is done at users' discretion. GardenWeb has no control or resposibility over trades arranged here."


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

We never said oh for the number 0. It's zero.

W is pronounced double-you on the air.

There's tons more, but I have changed professions and don't remember them all. I didn't know anyone competent or valuable enought to pen or ink anything in radio. It was drafting copy only. No siggies required.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Do people write "anyhoo" on purpose or it's a typo?


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

  • Posted by donn_ 7a, GSB, LI, NY (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 4, 06 at 8:51

I write it frequently, but I spell it anywho.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Okay, here's one that is not incorrect in the dictionary, but for some reason I can't make my brain accept it. Maybe y'all can knock some sense into me:

Do you use the word "fun" as an adjective? It seems to sound all right when you say something like, "That was a fun game." And when you say, "That was fun", it could still be a noun, although I think most people mean it as an adjective.

Here's where it gets me, though - "Yeah, that was so fun!" I keep automatically correcting to "so MUCH fun", or "such fun", as in, it's a noun. I know this is some weird glitch in my brain, but I can't remember ever reading anything when I was a kid, where it was used in that way! In the dictionary that I checked, there was an adjective listing from at least the early 1900's, can't remember now. Could someone PLEASE cure me of this apparently false notion?!? I've even said it myself (but then again, I say, "It don't matter" all the time, so that tells me nothing!)

Well, thanks for listening!
Wanders off, mumbling..."Having fun in the fun house...isn't that funny...fun, fun, fun..."


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

I have a similar question. I cannot remember my English teachers or any grammar books that said I could say "different than". I thought "than" was used for a comparison such as in "more than", "less than", smaller than", etc.

I thought "different" was an adjective and the preposition used with it should be "from". Whenever I see "different than", I kinda think it is incorrect. ??????


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

pitimpinai, you're probably right. That sounds right, anyway! I don't know if I do that in writing, but I know when I talk you might hear me say, "It's no different than..."
Since the forums are conversational, I probably would do that here, too! :o) Ain't it a hoot?


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fun with difference

  • Posted by donn_ 7a, GSB, LI, NY (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 4, 06 at 11:35

"Usage Note: The use of fun as an attributive adjective, as in a fun time, a fun place, probably originated in a playful reanalysis of the use of the word in sentences such as It is fun to ski, where fun has the syntactic function of adjectives such as amusing or enjoyable. The usage became popular in the 1950s and 1960s, though there is some evidence to suggest that it has 19th-century antecedents, but it can still raise eyebrows among traditionalists. The day may come when this usage is entirely unremarkable, but writers may want to avoid it in more formal contexts."

=====

"Usage Note: Different from and different than are both common in British and American English. The construction different to is chiefly British. Since the 18th century, language critics have singled out different than as incorrect, though it is well attested in the works of reputable writers. According to traditional guidelines, from is used when the comparison is between two persons or things: My book is different from (not than) yours. Different than is more acceptably used, particularly in American usage, where the object of comparison is expressed by a full clause: The campus is different than it was 20 years ago. Different from may be used with a clause if the clause starts with a conjunction and so functions as a noun: The campus is different from how it was 20 years ago.�Sometimes people interpret a simple noun phrase following different than as elliptical for a clause, which allows for a subtle distinction in meaning between the two constructions. How different this seems from Paris suggests that the object of comparison is the city of Paris itself, whereas How different this seems than Paris suggests that the object of comparison is something like "the way things were in Paris" or "what happened in Paris.""


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Love this thread!! Now for one of my pet peeves... seeing incorrect prices on signs. I saw one at a famous burger place advertising one of their sandwiches for .99 with a cent mark after (sorry, this computer does not have a cent mark!!!) This is actually slightly less than one penny and obviously they meant $.99 which is 99 hundredths of a dollar or 99 cents. It is ok to advertise for 99 cents with no decimal or with a decimal and dollar mark. I have been tempted a few times in the grocery store when I see canned veggies advertised 3 for .99 cents to check out by giving them a penny and telling them to keep the change, but I guess they would be too smarty and some cashiers would not understand anyway. I have mentioned this to store managers in the past and they obviously do not get it either!!!! Guess I am still have too much of a math teacher!


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LOL...this is a funny thread. I can't complain much because I have terrible grammar practices and some things I have just never learned correctly. My pet peeve on forums is the "their", "there", "they're" thing. I think that one bothers me because it's such a common mistake.

Mistakes in advertisements are quite comical. I enjoy when Jay Leno or Dave Letterman show ad mistakes on their shows.

Mistakes in tv commercials bother me most of all simply because there are so few clever tv commercials out there. It bothers me when furniture stores advertise sales on "Bedroom Suits" (rather than suites pronounced "sweets") and when people on tv say "foy-ER" to describe a front hallway or the BIG ONE "nuke-U-lar"! Would someone kindly inform George Dub'ya that the word is pronouced "NUKE-lee-ar". Is there a "u" in that word? No, no there isn't. Please stop saying it with a "u" in the middle. ;o)

*wipes sweat from brow* There... I feel much better now. And nobody complain about my "...'s" because I have no idea why I use them on forums except to express a longer than normal pause between words in my sentences. ;o)

Barb


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Thank you, Donn! I assume this is coming from a book I need to own...? I checked out a good one recently on the history of common phrases, but can't remember the title, of course.

Barb, the bedroom suite thing has always had me stumped, too. Now, foyer just needs to be changed. Around here, that's just too much - "Oh, do please meet me in the foy-ay, won't you, dear?"

Here is another one for you gardeners - "herbs"!!!!!

I grew up hearing teachers correct people for pronouncing the "h", "Herb is a man's name, not a plant!" Over and over, I heard this.

Years later, I realize that in England, one DOES pronounce the "h" (I think?). One day, a few years ago, I see Martha Stewart on television, talking to someone in a garden, and she keeps DELIBERATELY enunciating the word with an h. Almost PAUSING in her speech to point this out, or something. From that point on, I have heard it more and more this way on gardening shows. Was Martha trying to educate us, the inferior, non-h pronouncing idiots? Or is everyone going nuts?!?

Along the same lines, "Halley's Comet" - in the 80's, God forbid you pronounce that with a short A. The last time around, it was the long A. Arrgh.

Speaking of signs, did anyone get the email picture going around years ago (don't know if it was real or edited), of a Taco Bell sign that read,
"NOW HIRING
ALL SHIFTS"
only they had left out the "f" in shifts? :o)


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  • Posted by donn_ 7a, GSB, LI, NY (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 4, 06 at 16:17

Singingcrk...it comes from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

I use FireFox for my browser, and I have an extension called Dictionary Tooltip. I can highlight a word, right click it and select "View Definition," and up pops a dialog box with definitions, usage notes, audible pronunciations and synonyms. Very handy.


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Donn or anyone...What is the proper use of the words alright and all right? I've never known how to use those words properly.

Singingcrk... is "foyer" too hoity-toity for KY?

There was a tv show about 5 or 6 months ago that was really neat. It was about the english language and how different it can be only miles away from where you live. It showed people being asked what "such and such" is and their replies depending on where they lived. It also talked about where certain words came from and how they evolved and it talked about where slang words come from and how they become popular nation-wide. It was really interesting but I don't remember what show it was on.

Barb


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Barb....see link below about that...

Here is a link that might be useful: All right vs. alright


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Just a compilation .....

Pick your poison:

All of these in one place:

Here is a link that might be useful: Common Errors


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Well, good grief. I had no idea. I have the wrong dictionaries. :o)

Barb, I always liked "alright", but I was taught later that "all right" is correct. I don't know if you can believe anything you're "taught" about English, though, since the language does change! This may be a stupid question, but I'm curious: do you know if there are grammar rules that are different/accepted in Canada?

Haha, I have heard people say foy-er around here, so I guess not...
I would have loved to have seen that show. I did see one about the dialect/language in a particular region of North or South Carolina, but I can't remember the name of it, either! It seems my memory has left, a little bit with each kid I've had...I guess I've focused so much on them, that there isn't as much room in my brain for other things!

Anyway, I think it's fascinating to listen to people from different areas. It will also be interesting to see how popular speech changes in, say, 10 or 20 years. With people moving around the country more, and especially television/radio, I wonder how much more the dialects and accents will have blurred.

We moved just one county over, but there are differences. One local thing seems to be using the word "ideal" to mean "idea". Where did that start? The friends I have heard saying it were all raised here. Did one person, way back when, start the trend? Does everyone say it, or just a few? Maybe it started in a school or church, because it's not one family. I would love to know, but it seems rude to ask!

Anyway, so I'm a nut. Love language, even though I'm not that good at using it! I'll quit the babbling... gotta go clean up the potting soil in the kitchen!

Angel


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English errors site

Ooh, webkat, thanks! Good reading for later.
I hope you're feeling better soon!
Angel


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Cool WebKat... I've been "perusing" (in the proper sense of the word) that link ;o) lol

One of the non-words that drives me crazy is when people say "axe" rather than "ask".

For years my husband insisted that "irregardless" was NOT a word and for years it was not in the dictionary. However, if you look in just about any dictionary now a days, you will find it. It's an odd word.

Barb


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Do people who speak/read english but don't have english as a first language, understand english euphemisms even if you explain them to them?

For example if I talked about "road pizza"... does an explanation even make sense? Maybe the flatness of the pizza I suppose but I guess that would depend on which neighborhood you come from if your pizzas are really all that flat.

If you say "!Vaca Santa!"(literally "Holy Cow!") to a Spanish speaking person they wouldn't have a clue what you mean. Can you explain that english euphemism to someone so that they don't think you are a mental case?

Barb


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Singingcrk, LMAO at Now Hiring All Shifts without the F!!!!
That's as good as this one- NO KIDDING- at a Chinese Restaurant in Front Royal, Virginia- a sign on the glass door:

HOSTRESS WANTED

Shore


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

"Do people who speak/read english but don't have english as a first language, understand english euphemisms even if you explain them to them?"

Someimes, but for the most part, no. It is even more difficult when you don't live in a country where English is the primary language.
On the other hand, English in England is different from the one spoken in the U.S. or Canada or Australia. Even in the U.S., there is a variance from one region to the next.

I have lived in the U.S. for more than half my life. I read and write English extensively. In fact, my first language is deteriorating while my English is improving, I think. LOL. However, I still don't understand a lot of things. Take humor for instance. For the life of me, I don't see what's so funny about slapping a pie on another person's face. I see it as an insult rather than a funny action. :-(

And I mangle idioms all the time. :-D


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Don't worry, English IS my first language and I don't understand a lot of idioms either. :o/ Proverbs usually make no sense to me at all b/c I have difficulty with abstract thought.

Barb


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A local roadside flower/plant stand had a huge sign stating:
All Perrineals Half Price
Hahaha-wished i'd snapped a picture!


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For those who aren't familiar...the "Perineal"(minus the second "r") area is the region between your pubic bone and your anus...simply stated, your CROTCH. Apparently crotches were half price that day ;o)) Maybe it was "NURSES WEEK" and they were offering a sale that only nurses would understand (intimately...groan).

Barb in Ontario


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One of my pet peeves:

"All doors will not open at this station"

Really? Then how is anyone going to get off the train?

And another:

"Station X, last and final stop"

Just redundant. Earlier they say "Station X, next and final stop" and that makes sense.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/care.html


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knotty,

irregardless is in my 1969 dictionary. It is nonstandard, or slang. It says it is a double negative, which is never acceptable except when the intent is clearly humorous.....or...I think in other words when someone is just wanting to talk and appear stupid.

sue


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

The thing that naggs me so is the possessive "their" used with "everyone".
Everyone is using it. That's the trouble.


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

Pitimpinai... make a sentence with "their"/possessive. I don't understand what you mean to say.

Barb


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Pitimpinai, I do that one all the time - slap my wrist!

Barb, here's an example:
Everyone took their toys and went home. Should be: Everyone took his toys and went home. (I think...gosh, it sounds weird, now...)
Same thing with no one, none, someone, somebody, etc. They're all singular.
Another conversational thing for me, sliding into what I write/type.

Angel


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:-D
Yup. Singular.


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But isn't "their"/possessive, singular AND plural at the same time, just like the words "geese" and "moose"? I've never heard of it being incorrectly used when plural.

Barb
(who used "But" at the beginning of the sentence ;o))


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Here's one I don't understand either...

I often hear people say "priorize" instead of "prioritize". I look it up in my dictionary and it's not there. Then I look on the internet and get over 51,400 hits on the alleged word. IS it a word? I still think not but I'm not sure.

Barb
southern Ontario, CANADA


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Here lies the problem.....

On a forum, such as this, we have a tendency to use what I will call "conversational grammar", that is, how we would say it...not how we would write it...

Does that make sense??

If I was writing a research paper or other type of report, it would be "fine tooth combed" for errors.


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  • Posted by susanc Z9/Sunset 17 (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 12, 06 at 21:41

I experience pain whenever I read "winter sew" or "winter sewing". I feel better now. -Thanks


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Ha ha, susanc, my husband is always getting me with the opposite - 'So, what's all this sowing stuff about, again?' Only he pronounces it like COW! Of course, he knows perfectly well what he's doing, he just likes to see me roll my eyes, I guess!

We were talking the other night about the whole 'he/she' issue, and he said he'd recently read something about 'they' becoming acceptable as a singular substitute. If this is true (and I don't know that I trust his source, since it wasn't me, LOL, yeah, right!), then 'their' would have follow along. So you may be right, Barb! Maybe everyone DID take their toys and go home! :o)
I had to look up 'priorize', I had never seen that before. I found a site that talked about it,though. According to them, even 'prioritize' didn't show up until the sixties!

Webkat, you're right, I see the forums as very conversational, like talking to friends, not writing research papers. I don't think this is a mean-spirited thread, I just find language interesting, and love to talk about it with non-stuffy (is that a word?) folks!

Here is a link that might be useful: Scroll down to


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Oops

That link should have read, "Scroll down to Getting our 'prioritizes' right"


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I don't know about ya'll, (that's right, I'm in the south, everything goes here), but grammar is not even on my list of pet peeves. My pet peeve is when the bag boy puts my loaf of bread in the bag with canned goods and smashes it!!!

Another good one is while in traffic, I always leave a couple car lengths between me and the guy in front. The jerk behind me is on my a**, then he passes me must to get up in front and take my "stopping space".

Or when someone calls your home and it's a wrong number and they just hang up with out an "I'm sorry", especially when it's late.

The biggest pet peeve is when I park my 4x4, (which I'm still very proud of) way out in the parking lot, the very furthest spot I can find. I come out of the store and find a P.O.S parked right up on my door!! Thus 6 door dings!!!!!

So to me, grammar doesn't bother me. It's rude and uncurteous people.

Nancy


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Webkat...why would it be "fine tooth combed"? That's an action. "Fine tooth comb" is a thing. I've never heard anyone say "fine tooth combed" before... is that a common phrase where you live?

Singingcrk...thanks for the link

Seedbandito... I agree! Rude people really irk me too. In my small town I often see kids or teenagers throw huge bags of fast food garbage out the back window of their car but what's worse is that the adults in the front seat seem to think it's no big deal. Our North American culture is sorely lacking in the finer niceties, morals, manners and etiquette that was so stringently taught up until the last century. I'm a working mom myself but it seems that this lack of social teaching/learning seems to coincide with both parents being out of the home and working. It's a shame we can't go back to teaching the simple manners and niceties once again.

Barb


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  • Posted by pvick z6B NYC (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 16, 06 at 8:12

There was a Dateline episode the other night on how rude people (all over the world) are becoming. Sad.

One of my pet peeves is how telemarketers call and address you by your first name, as if they know you. I suppose that's a marketing trick - but it just ticks me off.

And I have a question: why do so many people use the word "loose" when they mean "lose"??

PV


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pvic...what did they talk about on the dateline show?

Barb


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

  • Posted by pvick z6B NYC (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 17, 06 at 20:00

Barb - correction: it was Primetime. Generally they talked about how polls show that 70-80% of Americans believe we are getting ruder, citing cell phone usage in public, reality shows(!), email, etc.

But they said that rudeness is a lot like fashion, in that it changes with the times; what was considered rude, say a hundred years ago, may be considered acceptable behavior today.

And that there are periods in history when the feeling that rudeness is pervasive grows more intense:

"Questions tend to come up during periods of change. Periods of immigration, periods where technology transforms the way we live, periods where there's a big population explosion, so there are more people encountering each other on a daily basis. All of those kinds of situations, I think, create a shift and a reinvestigation of manners and what they are."

They also talked quite a bit about Japan, that most "polite" nation, experiencing a real surge of rudeness, which they attribute to the growing influences of the western world (aka America). And how they are trying to legislate the "rudeness" away.

Bottom line: rudeness seems both dehumanizing and threatening no matter what era; manners are what bind people.

OK, there it is. More than you probably wanted to know.

PV


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PV...thanks... sadly though I don't see where the pendulum can swing the other way and bring back some of the lovely etiquette that has gone by the wayside. One of the habits that I think bothers me most is poor table manners. For Chinese New Year we went to a restaurant and looking around the dining room almost 100% of the men and young adult males were wearing hats/ballcaps at the table. My husband says "so what?" and that just makes me sad to think that society just has no mind to have any social graces at all.

Barb


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Here you go farmerbell:

Next on the list: fewer v. less

More and more I hear everyone using "less" when they are talking about a NUMBER of items. "Less" is for 'lumps' of things...like mashed potato for instance. "Less" mashed potato, not fewer.

However, if you had a bag of potatoes, and you didn't need that many, you'd want FEWER potatoes, not LESS potatoes.

Then there's noocular, joolery, and febyooary.

The list goes on...


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RE: Plural words DON'T have an apostrophe!!!

For those of you who hate to have typos in your posts, Google has a spell checker included in the google toolbar. It is a quick and easy download and you can search google (and google images) right from your toolbar.

Sam (a grammar and spelling snob who does not always type very well)


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I dislike the use of "orientate" instead of "orient". I know they are both derivations of the french "orienter", but it still bothers me. Lea


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Lea... I dislike the use of "orientate" as well. I'm a nurse and as such use the word "orient" a great deal ie. "oriented in all three spheres" We also "orient" new nurses to the unit yet everyone tells them they are getting "orientated"...

Barb


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Barb,

Perhaps that is the root of my disdain for the word "orientate". I was a nurse for 20 years, though I haven't practiced for almost two years.

Lea


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I use "anyhoo" and "anyways" all the time, and do it on purpose. I misspell lots of things, sometimes without noticing, but most of the time I go back and correct myself. When I am posting hear or "penning" emails, I use coloquial, vernacular, and slang with the uttmost abandon =) I also use smiley's as punctuation as frequently as possible, more so when I'm in my cups. I abbrvi8 whenever possible, as sometimes I have much to say and little time. I also appreci8 it when others use abbrv's cuz I also have lil time to read (sometimes) I miss and misuse punctuation whenever possible.... sometimes a period just won't due, and an ! is just 2 much ;) I create my own abrrv's and expect others to understand me... mostly cuz I figure if if make's sense to me anyone can figure it out =oP I make notes of my laghter in posting "hehehe" "lol" "rotfl" and occasionally "lmfao!" Pll ~ life is short, you can be intelligent and post like an illitterate... I won't mind one bit! (that time and ! was warranted, hehehe!)

Oh, my pet peeve~ rambling posts ;) hehe!

gee-dubya


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garden witch, :o) !!!


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I truly feel bad for the anyone who has to rely on the closed captioning text on TV. The words(?) scroll so fast and are so badly spelled that I can hardly figure out what's going on. I see this in the gym where the sound is not on, and cain alwaiz tail whan someone speaks with an accent. Makes me wonder if there is a person or just a computer doin the texting. Why can't that be checked? Especially if the same news story is run 100 times a day.

Just my peeve. I'd rather be gardening.
Susan


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Great thread! I should of joined GW earlier. (sic)

Has anyone read "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" by Lynne Truss? Is the koala in a tree or a bar?

singingcrk: I think the dialect in the Carolinas you're thinking of is Gullah, a blend of English and African languages spoken on islands off the coast, and originating with slaves. The isolation of the islands has kept the language alive.

A recent program on my local public radio station had an interview with, among others, the author of "The Atlas of North American English" who says that, contrary to common opinion, accents are actually becoming more pronounced.

One might and may listen online from the archive page. Scroll down to the show titled "Ayuh, Linguistically Speaking" from March 9th.

Here is a link that might be useful: Linguists & Dialect Coach


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"Eats, Shoots & Leaves" - great book...the title alone says it all - if you put a comma after the "eats", then the bear "eats, shoots and Leaves" instead of eating shoots and leaves....make sense? It is a funny book!


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My grammar might be bad but I understand math.


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  • Posted by byron 4a/5b NH (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 7, 06 at 19:20

Why is "Bra" singular

and "Panties' is plural ???

All Perrineals Half Price

How about "Eat here and get gas" ?

or "We buy junk and sell antiques"

:-)


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I apologize if this one has been stated. But it has been getting on my nerves lately as I've seen it in numerous posts.

Advise/Advice.


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Solana and gardenjen, I've been wanting to read Eats, Shoots and Leaves, it's on my list. Of course, now I have to add the other book you mentioned. Can you guess that my list is endless?
I don't think the dialect was Gullah, I'm pretty sure it was on the mainland, and had Native American influence...blurry memory here. I don't think it was as pronounced as some dialects, either, some of the difference was more in the accent. Not sure. Still interesting.

mao_tse_mom, math has never been my strong point, but I love to have light bulb math moments! Loved algebra, because I like logic and puzzles. And logic puzzles. :o)

Here's one in the spirit of being helpful, and it applies to winter sowing:

Opaque does not mean transparent, they are opposites. (I think we get this one confused because we may remember hearing the definition in school, and it was usually presented at the same time as transparent or translucent.)
I only mention this because sometimes folks talk about using opaque lids 'n' such, when I think they mean a lid that lets light through.

:o)
Angel


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mao tse mom-- High five. I'm a math idiot. Really.
I was the copy editor for my high school newspaper, which meant it was my responsibility to find and correct all mistakes. Which was fun for me because I used to (when in a teenage snit of some sort) walk through the aisles of the local drug store, sharpie marker in hand, and do corrections. My mom refused to go into a store with me after a while. "Why is everybody so friggin' dense?" I would complain...
But I got off my high horse when I realized that if everybody were 'just like me' then we'd have a whole big mess on our hands... I cringe when my 10 year old asks me for math help and it's not because I don't want to be bothered! Luckily my husband is a mechanical engineer-- he can help with all the math stuff!

Amanda 'romando'


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I got a chuckle out of our local KFC that had a sign for a while reading, "$400 Value Meals Now Here."

I've learned to read past/through typos on posts on GW or elsewhere, although I do have a handful of pet peeves. It's like talking with friends - their grammar isn't as important as their friendship and what they have to share.

What really gets me, though, are typos in articles on news websites. You'd think that people in the information business would be scrupulous about spell-checking and editing. Typos in books bug me too - sometimes I think I should have been a copy editor instead of a Special Ed teacher (and now home schooling mother - my kids are NOT going to like having me correct their papers someday!).

About ESL (English as a Strange Language!), our son has Asperger's Syndrome, a mild form of autism. One of the characteristics of AS is being very literal-minded and having difficulty understanding euphemisms/figures of speech. We are ALWAYS having to "define" figures of speech for him, because they just make NO SENSE to him at all. The expressions "Cat got your tongue?" and "I have a frog in my throat" really grossed him out until we explained them. Sometimes I feel like I have to be a walking dictionary of American colloquial speech. (And there are several good dictionaries for figures of speech available, some written specifically for people who have AS. Who knew? I've GOT to get one!)

Laurel (who is a transplant from OH to NY, and still occasionally can't figure out whether to say "soda" or "pop" when referring to a soft drink)


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Wonderful thread! A few things that came to mind while reading this is people who say "sodie" for a soft drink or baking soda, "front chard" in place of front yard, "zink" when it should be sink, "unthaw" for thaw and the list goes on and on. There is a book out "How to Speak Southern" that is hilarious.

Don't stop now, this is great!

Nancy


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not sure if this was mentioned before, but when we first came to the South (coming from Westchester, NY), we heard the expression "might could" and that was sounded a bit odd to me - either you might do it, or you could do it - but might could? If someone could explain that to me - I "might could" understand it - - (see what I mean?) Carrie


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When we first moved to South Carolina from D.C., we kept hearing folks say to us, "Come see us." We weren't being invited anywhere, although it sounded like it. Not sure about this, Carrie, but "might could" sounds like an effort to be deferential.

Okay, here's a pet peeve: saying "surely" when "sure" would do. As in "I surely will." One more peeve is the improper use of the pronouns "I" and "me." (Hope I put the period in the right place!) On one of my favorite gardening programs the host is always saying, "Something something to landscapers Mike, Jay and I."

I really try to not notice grammatical errors on signs or in the newspaper, but I find it impossible to be patient about mistakes in print. I recently checked out Sunbelt Gardening: Success in Hot-Weather Climates (don't know how to make italics, sorry) by Tom Peace, and it was so filled with grammatical errors, I became angry. Hate when that happens!


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When I lived in Florida, I saw a farm field with a sign that read "PAIS".

What they had for sale was field peas. I think it was adorable, and I've never forgotten it.

Mary


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Mary, I don't get it -- waaaah!


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Dirty, Pais are Peas with a Florida "country" southern accent.

They just spelled it exactly the way it sounded to them.

Mary


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Seen recently in SEVERAL places:

"Pansys $X.xx"


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X-rated posies?


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  • Posted by donn_ 7a, GSB, LI, NY (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 3, 06 at 17:08

I have another forum pet peeve. Posts that start with "um."


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