Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
littlelithop

Is there a Winter sowing conspiracy?

LittleLithop
11 years ago

I am kind of a conspiracy buff, so it might just be me Haha. The reason I ask is I never new about ws until I started reading Gardenweb forums and really trying to learn more about plants then when to water my palm tree. Going from apartments to a house with a yard really changes ones thinking on landscaping and how to do it cost effectively.
I am labeled a nut by my family but my husband (thankfully) and grandmother are both on board with my new found passion and look forward to spring results, but it appears that main stream gardeners are still out of the loop. I wrote an email today to our local writer for the gardening section of our paper in response to her saying she is glad when winter comes because she won't have to think about gardening, turned off the radio when they were taking about something new (not even relevant to our zone anyway) and didn't want to learn anything new time of year and now was the time of year to rest and not worry about weeds. And blah, blah, blah. She must not know. So I told her how saddened I am she would spread such dread when there are so many of us itching to get outside right now and only dream of spring! I should have been more shaming but I would rather hope to encourage her then make her mad so she can learn something and maybe use her position to teach instead of soundly willfully ignorant. I was so disgusted by the article I plan to email a response directly to the paper so it gets publish and not just spammed. Anyway rant over...
So back to my question, is there some reason why I am only able to find information here or in Trudi's website and few other places? Where is the book? Why can't I find seeds in stores like so many others can? I dont live in a small town, we have 1/2 of Canada here every weekend! (Please keep coming so we can continue opening awesome restaurants!) I have yet to see a main stream well known gardener touch the subject on t.v. or the web. Am I looking in all the wrong places? Has the cold finally touched my brain? Haha Is this really that new of a practice that main stream gardening has yet to catch up?
I just want to go to Menards/Lowes/Tracker Supply and buy some seeds and talk to other gardeners about their awesome crop of seedlings last year without having to explain myself one. more. time.
Where is the winter sow love? When we live in a time when having a garden in your front yard is a badge of honor and upcycling is hip this should be plastered all over the place. Why not seed packs for stocking stuffers? Dirt I can use right away instead of letting it thaw out for a day because it was stored outside since fall? I know the world will catch on but I can't imagine why it hasn't yet, there is a real market for this. Maybe I'm just frustrated because I'm still new and excited and want to spread my joy. Happy sowing everyone! Spread the joy!!!

Comments (21)

  • pdsavage
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There have been some news articals and some tv news clips on it.
    But other then that its not know as much as it should be.

  • molanic
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Many people that consider themselves gardeners I would say are more landscapers. In one of the books I read they made the distinction between the two, and I tend to agree with it. Gardeners view it as a hobby. They like to learn new things and at least attempt to grow things from seed. They like to move plants around and experiment. They don't mind deadheading or pulling some weeds (within reason of course) because they actually enjoy it.

    Landscapers are just looking for the end result, usually a little foundation planting bed with a few shrubs and maybe a few annuals here and there. They buy the lowest maintenance main stream plants possible, pile on the mulch or landscape fabric and hope they don't have to do anything else for as long as possible. They just want it to look good and presentable but don't actually enjoy the process. The landscaper types probably would have very little interest in wintersowing because it is frankly easier to just buy a few plants.

    Then there are the gardener types who have tried starting things from seed before, failed miserably, and don't want to try it again. I would say that almost anyone who has tried seed starting using the method the stores market to you in the seed aisle has probably failed miserably. They instruct you to use those little jiffy peat pellets and put them in a sunny window. Those little buggers dry out way too fast and even a sunny window isn't enough to keep the seedlings from getting super leggy and anemic looking. Plus the seed packets tell you to start them so far ahead of time that it would be hard to keep them alive long enough. Even if you manage to do that, hardening off without killing the seedlings is no easy task.

    I think the companies want to lure you in with the seed packets, but basically set you up for failure with their supplies and instructions they sell along side it. That works out well for them because you'll be back to buy the plants later on.

    And that I believe is why wintersowing doesn't get much coverage in the mainstream gardening community. I read a lot of gardening books and magazines and watch what few gardening tv shows I can find. I have only seen wintersowing featured once in garden gate magazine. Many of the shows, magazines, etc. are sponsored by plant companies. I'm sure they don't want to point out how you can easily start 100 plants for less than the price of one of theirs.

    I'm not saying that is a bad thing, it is just business. I mean if I'm selling something for $10, why would I announce to the world how they can easily make their own for 10 cents.

    There are also still plenty of things that you can't really get by wintersowing like hybrids or super difficult slow to germinate things. Or sometimes we just want a little instant gratification with an overflowing hanging basket in full bloom. Some things it still does make more sense just to buy them. But a large share of what I see people buying just makes me shake my head. If they only knew. Purple coneflowers, hyssop, dianthus.... sunflowers even! It is sad. I have told people I know that go out and buy tons of plants every year to just try it to no avail.

    Oh and the newspaper garden writers are frustrating. Almost every week it is the same "what to do in the garden this month" that I swear they just reprint every year. They also love to give you lists of new expensive hybrid trademarked plants that you should go out and buy. No thank you I'm spending my money on seeds and potting mix!

  • diggerdee zone 6 CT
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think of WSing more like a cult following, lol. Like people who are huge fans of an obscure band or movie, or a little-known book. There are a not a large number of fans, but the fans there are are passionate, well-informed about the band/movie/book/(and wintersowing), can quote lines from it and spout trivia, and will tell anyone who will listen about it, in the hopes that others will join them.

    So, I'm not surprised at all that no one seems to know. I've been faithfully doing my bit to spread the word for 10 years (workshops, articles, teaching kids and telling anyone who asks about the rows of milk jugs in the driveway) and no one I meet still seems to know...

    Dee

  • caryltoo Z7/SE PA
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A number of years ago I wrote an article on ws, complete with photos of some of my sprouts,for the newspaper I worked for. At least one co-worker decided to give it a try.

    My husband is the biggest proselytizer out there -- he'll tell anyone who visits all about the jugs and how well it works. But until he saw the second-year results (I did just two jugs the first year) he was skeptical.

    As molanic said, it's not really in a garden shop or nursery's best interest to spread this dirt-cheap method around. They wouldn't sell nearly as many plants or seed-starting kits, etc. But the reason I originally tried it was because of the failure of those kits and a lack of desire to set up a light system or some such in the house.

    To me the biggest thing is just the variety of tomatoes I've been able to try, types you'll never find in the garden sections of most stores, as well as trying out new kinds of flowers for less than the cost of one perennial from a nursery.

    Caryl

  • kqcrna
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think Trudi just chose this outlet to share her method. She wasn't a multimillion dollar corporation looking to sell a product, just a gardener wanting to share with other gardeners. Gardenweb was the outlet she chose.

    Apparently gardeners have sown seeds outdoors in winter for generations. They did it by just direct sowing in fall or by sowing in a flower pot, the principle is the same. Trudi just tweaked that to using covered containers, and we know that works very well.

    There's information out there, sometimes you just have to look for it. I used to belong to Dave's Garden, and we had wintersowers there. I'm not a member anymore, but I imagine there are still wintersowers. Now I belong to All Things Plants, and we have wintersowers there, too. So there are other places out there.

    There are also online blogs and videos. I just googled wintersowing and got 15,700 hits.

    Now, go spread the word.

    Karen

  • pinusresinosa
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Beam me up Trudi, there's no winter sowers down here.

    Truthfully, I can't remember how I heard about winter sowing, but the year I tried it, I was so impressed with it. I tell everyone I know who I think might be interested. Most people I know aren't really hardcore gardeners- more like landscapers I suppose. I've had a few people give it a try, and I don't know if a lot of people realize that 80-90% germination is success, especially in the frigid cold we have here. They sow three or four jugs or flats, one doesn't germinate, and they see that as a total failure and write off the whole process all together. Landscapers probably, although they might think they are gardeners. And of course, I'm not about to psychoanalyze them and try to steer them in the other direction- I'm too busy sowing in milk jugs and reaping the rewards!

  • molanic
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Karen is right, people have been cold stratifying seeds outside for a long time like mother nature. Trudi did not invent that. She just devised a more goof-proof method and presented it in a way that that makes it approachable and enticing to thrifty people, and beginning and experienced gardeners alike.

    I had been direct sowing purchased annual and veggie seed in spring for years with success. I had also tried indoor sowing under lights. Initially I did the kits in a sunny window and that was a failure. Then I moved onto fluorescent lights and got good results but it was a lot of work. I had to sterilize everything, buy sterile seedling mix, be diligent with keeping the moisture levels just right, and then deal with hardening off. Bringing lots of flats in an out of the house every day and trying to gradually acclimate them to real sunlight is not an easy task.

    Searching for instructions on germinating hellebore and siberian iris is what led me to the wintersowing forum. That was all I did my first year just to try it. The next year I got some free seeds from bakemom and other generous gardenwebbers and had great success with around 50 jugs... then I was hooked.

    Trudi's wintersowing info also taught me about harvesting and trading seed which is a huge money saver. Many of the gardening books and articles tell you to buy fresh seed every year to insure success and that you NEED to store it in the fridge. Many articles also lead you to believe that seed you harvest yourself will not be viable or come true. In some cases that is true, but a little research on the plant will guide you in that respect.

    So the basic info was out there before Trudi, she just put it all together in a smart way that makes it so easy. Being that it is so cheap and easy I understand why nurseries don't promote the idea. What I don't get is why some true gardeners are still hesitant to try it after seeing the results.

  • caryltoo Z7/SE PA
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My brother is a gardener but he won't try it because he has access to a greenhouse and prefers that because the plants are much bigger by the time they go in the ground. Still, he got ripe tomatoes only a few days before me last year so I'm not complaining about ws. The small seedlings really do catch up.

  • lilykit64
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the idea of hardcore gardeners really understanding the WS method is right. I have many gardening friends but they are not all really like me as I have a bit of OCD (lol) and WSing is perfect for my madness because I do not have a greenhouse and now I can garden almost year round. Most of my gardening friends find it too difficult to hunt down the containers and do all the prep work like WASH milk jugs but not me....because of that OCD thing !!!

  • ryseryse_2004
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To me the prep for WS is nothing compared to starting seeds inside in slats with lights! I was so thrilled when I heard of it several years ago (here) and have been doing it ever since.

    The only things I start indoors now are peppers and tomatoes which I have never had much luck with WS. They both need a long growing season which we don't get with WS.

  • terrene
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have much experience starting plants from seed going back to 1986. I grew under lights for years. Now, I hardly ever do, because of Trudi's winter sowing method. It's so much easier, and yes indeed it appeals to a thrifty, obsessive, detail-oriented personality who absolutely loves to garden. I am all about conserving resources and finding the easiest, most efficient way to do things using least energy.

    And just because you winter-sow, doesn't mean you can't propagate plants in all sorts of other methods. I scatter seeds in the garden or when I'm out walking, sometimes cut tips of woody shrubs and insert them in the ground next to the shrub, to see if they'll root. I currently have at least 5 pots and flats of assorted cuttings rooting in the kitchen. I've got a pot of Narcissus bulbs sprouting in the kitchen. I would love to have sun room or greenhouse. I'm also considering growing a few seeds under lights this year. I grow Asclepias curassavica for the Monarch butterflies, which is an annual tropical milkweed. Our seasons are not long enough for the seed pods on ws plants to fully mature. Gotta get a jump on the season to do so I guess.

    Maybe Trudi should write a book "Winter Sowing: Growing seeds for Dummies" LOL. It sure makes it easy for newbies and oldies alike.

  • DivaInTheGarden
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The more I read, the more confused I get. I thought the purpose of WS was to get a jump start on the growing season. Reading some of these posts, it sounds as if the growing season will be the same as if I had directly sown the seeds into the ground.

  • molanic
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Diva, you do get a bit of a jump start on the season because the conditions in the container are warmer than the ground in spring. You also have a higher success rate than direct sowing because the seeds/seedlings are more protected from critters, wash out from heavy rains, etc.

    It will probably not give you as much of a jump start as starting indoors and hardening off early for some things...but that is a LOT more work, expense, and hard to get the timing just right.

    Many of us also still direct sow some things. Direct sowing is ideal for things that you can sow after the last frost date with no chilling period that germinate and grow quickly. It works best if you have a lot of extra seed so you can resow if necessary. It is also ideal for things that you can readily identify the seedlings so as not to weed them out by mistake. I direct sow things like sunflowers, zinnias, marigolds, beans, cucs, melons, etc. You just have to determine what works best for you. For me some things work very well direct sowing. For these things it is less work than wintersowing them in jugs and then having to transplant them out.

  • terrene
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ditto, some plants are easier to direct sow or allow to self sow. I direct sow poppies, Zinnias, sunflowers, some vines like scarlet runner bean, cucumbers and many other veggies.

  • caryltoo Z7/SE PA
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Terrene is right, ws doesn't preclude other methods. Right now I've got cuttings from my trailing verbenas growing in my garden window. They're for my hanging baskets, and I need a lot of them and prefer not to pay $4-5 a plant at the store. They'll also be ready to bloom by the time I put them out, which they would not be if I ws them.

    I direct sow peas and beans and corn (which I'm not growing this year). I usually ds cukes, too, but ws them last year -- they go in a garden that's pretty far out back so watering the young seedlings means hauling watering cans or dragging hose a good distance. It's easier to just ws them so they get a healthy start, but I'll do them only a couple of weeks before I want to plant them out this time. Same for the melons.

    Caryl

  • caryltoo Z7/SE PA
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    RyseRyse, have you tried an early DTM tomato, something like Anna Russian which is an oxheart-shaped, meaty tomato with a DTM of 65-70? In zone 5 the longer ones like Brandywines and Beefsteaks probably would need the jumpstart, but there are a # of early tomatoes that could be ws.

    Caryl

  • midmented
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When I first started trying to expand my knowledge on starting seed, most searches let to GardenWeb as well. There are gardeners out there that post but there are not very many hits on search engines for some reason.

    Caryltoo, I seem to run in to you on a lot of these forum posts. L If you haven't, maybe you should start a web page to get knowledge out there.

    I am going to start my Brandywine tomatoes in WS containers (bus boy containers) again this year since I had luck with that last year but you may be correct about DTM. It was pretty late in the season when mine matured but I thought it was due to how late I got the WS plants in (2-3 weeks late). The peas were still producing well and I didn't want to pull the peas to start the tomatoes (space limitations). About 30% of them were still green at the end of the season.

  • mori1
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I do both, wintersowing and grow from seeds under the light. There some plants I like to see bloom in the spring instead of in the late summer or fall. And in the last few years are cool spring has been warmer then usual. Besides its fun being able to watch the seedlings grow under the lights.

  • paulan70
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I so know what you mean. I am a research type of person. No matter what the subject is. If it is new to me than I am researching it to find ALL of the details I can find. And there are very few places that wintersowing info. Just last month I wrote a little article (half a page) for my garden club that I just joined a year and half ago. And alot of the women had no clue that they could start so many different seeds this way. And alot of them have been gardening way longer than I have.

    The first summer I joined the garden club we had a plant sale and I brought some of the perennial "babies" with me and they were alot of new and different plants that almost no one has heard of or even seen in stores in the area and that is what I love about winter sowing..

    So I will keep doing to please me and to have plants in my garden that not everyone else will have.

    Paula

  • northforker
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I do a combination of WSing (Feb, March, into April) and then on Easter put up my unheat, pop up greenhouse (8' x 8') on my deck. I usually have 100 jugs or more of perennials out in the cold and start my annuals in the greenhouse. This way I can get a head start on flowers for spring. In the summer (the pop -up comes down on Memorial day) I continue sowing... both annuals and perennials in jugs with good ventilation. I will never again start a seed under lights or on a window sill. Everything started outside (either in a jug or in my cold greenhouse) is healthy and robust - not spindley like I experienced for years.

    I agreee that most people are "landscapers" - - lay out a few hundred bucks a season for their annuals and a few gallon sized perennials, pop them in, and often (where I live anyhow) once they are in, the person is done "gardening" - -they have the guy who mows there lawn weed the beds for the rest of the season. To me, that's not gardening. When people walk around my garden and say "I love gardening... but I don't know how you do all THIS" I know they are "plant ploppers"...

    Nancy

  • LittleLithop
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am sorry it has taken me awhile to get back to you all but I had to make sure I did to thank everyone for all the feedback! The great thing about gardeners or 'plant people' is they are often very caring!!
    We finally got seeds in our area so I have been busy ws and life seems to be full no matter what time of year, we like to stay busy. I would prefer to be a gardener over a landscaper anyday and I hope most others would also. I love to learn new things. Having something new to do and get 'obsessed' about till I am productive with my level knowlegde is very rewarding and more so when you find out there is something new and get a chance to obsess again. Haha. Since gardening is so broad with so many options its really a life long project. I am glad I have found the right place to learn because everyone is very willing to help. I cant wait for spring!! Hope everyone's babies grow big and strong!