Why would you sow them any differently than what you normally do, unless you usually just spread seeds thickly over the surface? In that case I'd make individual holes for each seed so I knew what kind of germination I got.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question?

Caryl

Check your germination requirements carefully - both echinacea & aquilegia need cold strat to germinate, I believe - I just don't know how much. Do you have enough time left? (Alternatively, do you have records from years past of times you sowed echinacea & aquilegia that germinated successfully?)

I paid dearly for my climbing blueberry, and I sowed it via winter sowing. I have not seen one sprout. Kinda erks me but I am not giving up the hope for it. Like you it was 10 seeds for like almost 5 bucks. Honestly I try not to think about it!!

Surface sow in a container via wintersowing, is how I would do it. I do not know for sure but I think the columbine maybe 2 weeks cold for sure. Echinacea, I have had a few sprouts with no cold stratification, but I had more when I accidently over wintered it.

Due to some misleading information I found on the web, I had Echinacea on my list of seeds that don't need cold stratification. I also bought Pow Wow Wild Berry - from Hazzards - 50 seeds for $13. I was going down my list of cold strat seeds and something made me look again. Sure enough, I found several links that said Echinacea needs cold stratification. I WS the seeds in milk jugs same as most other seeds but I placed them about 1 1/4 inch apart to give them plenty of room once they sprout. Aside from that they got no "special" treatment. I WS Echinacea seeds from trades last year and got excellent germination so I'm expecting every one of these PWWB seeds to germinate.

Neither of those need cold strat if the seeds are very fresh. Columbine do best with fluctuating temps so I'd do them both asap.

I have to say, I usually get good germination from Swallowtail Seeds.

Karen

I'm not really asking about those specific seeds, I think there is plenty of time left for both Echinacea and Aquilegia.

Usually, I scatter a bunch of seeds on the top of the potting mix, press into soil, moisten, and throw 'em out there. Am not obsessive about exactly how many I sowed or how many sprouted. With these seeds, I want to monitor each and every seed. So with expensive seeds that you have few of, would you use a particular container, sow fewer seeds per container, or even sow indoors? That kind of thing.

Personally, and I'm a newb so, take this with a grain of salt, my more expensive seeds are getting sown 2 to a cup. These are mostly petunias, because those buggers do get darn expensive. I'm also doing them in groups, say for instance I bought 2 10 seed packs of silver tidal waves. There were approx 12-14 seeds per pack. I did one pack last week, and I'm going to wait til maybe April 1st, if I can, to do the second pack.

FWIW last year before I heard of winter sowing, I sowed columbine seeds in May. Great germination. No flowers, but planted out at end of summer. We'll see soon if they come back. I didn't stratify my seeds at all, I think they were sown the day I bought them at Lowes.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you were asking. The answer is no--I would not sow them different just because they cost more than others. They're not "special" in terms of germination, only that they're new and everyone wants to grow them so the price is insanely high. Give them a few years and you won't be able to give the seeds away.

I wouldn't sow them indoors--WS is a far better method of growing perennials from seed with (from my experience) substantially higher germination rates than indoor sowing. I didn't sow fewer seeds per container nor did I use a "special" container. They got a clean milk jug with plenty of moist growing medium same as all the others.

I WS Echinacea seeds from trades on 12/24/09; they sprouted April 2, 2010. I'll take note of how well the PWWB seeds germinate in a few more weeks and let you know what % germination I get.

And I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, and appreciate everyone's input. Sorry to hear you have no germination on your "climbing blueberry" CC. Now gotta go over to google and find out what is climbing blueberry.

Honestly Gardenweed, I want all 10 of those PWWB seeds to germinate, and not lose any down the side of a milk jug! I'll be curious to see how yours and mine do.

Livsauntie, I bought expensive Petunia seeds too - and some pelletized Foxglove - told you I went a little nuts. :) You have good ideas for a newb, I think I'll try using smaller containers (16 oz cups or 1 LTR bottles) and sow 2 or 3 seeds per container. And will only sow some of the seeds in the pack and not blow all of them at once.

I probably should have kept a few PWWB seeds back but "in for a penny; in for a pound" ruled the day and I decided to just go for it. I only WS my share (half) of the seeds--I split the order with Gardencrazy/Glenna in OH. Terrene - are you (like me) under the impression these bloom first year from seed or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

Terrene, what I do with expensive seeds is the same as I do for all, I look them up and see what is the most logical way to sow them.

Pow Wow WB is c. purpurea - it may need no chill but a brief moist chill may help germination so WS won't hurt it and could help - I don't think it's one I'd sow on the solstice though, it wouldn't have to go out that early. And I do sow fewer per pot to make sure I don't end up with expensive seedlings that are difficult to separate, I'd be comfortable sowing 10 echinacea in one of my 4x5" pots.

A. caerulea Origami is another that won't be hurt by a moist chill but it may not need it. Clothiers places it in with the group that contains a. longissima (sow at 68F and be very patient) - I've WS longissima with great results. I do find other suggestions that make it sound like it will benefit from temp drops at night so I wouldn't sow indoors under lights, just a little later in winter or even early Spring. I've never lost a seed down the side of a container, but I lightly press my barely damp soil before thoroughly moistening it, preparing the pots just like I would for indoors. (OT - two of the sources I've used and will use again for hellebores, $1 per seed before shipping fees)

CC - Billardiera longiflora. First vine purchased as a plant, not grown from seed. Mine has been damaged by temps in Z8, this is native to Tasmania - in fact one young vine I planted next door was outright killed two winters ago while my more mature plant was severely cut back by cold. Seeds sown immediately when ripe (early Fall, late Summer) may germinate first Spring, allowed to dry and it could take two (mild) winters.

Gardenweed, if you are finding confusing information on echinacea, it may be because some types do require a moist chill and others don't - Then there is that group that may germinate with no chill, but germination may or may not be improved by chilling. I've sown purpurea indoors under lights, but haven't found a chill hurts any of them either :)

Gardenweed - I've read that PWWB will bloom a little the first year from seed, but get the impression that you would have to start them very early under lights for that to happen. I do not expect that to happen with WSing (at this point, we are heading towards Spring sowing).

Morz, thanks for info, I've lurked over on the Lily Auction and some of those Daylily seeds and starts go for a pretty penny too!

As for E. purpurea, I did a germination test last winter on some 'White Swan' seeds I collected in Fall 2009 - spread them in a flat tupperware and spritzed them and got excellent germination without any cold stratification. So I suspect that PWWB will be fine with sowing now, especially in zone 5.

Also, I sowed A. caerulea 'Mixed colors' on February 28th of last year and got especially good germination with the first sprout appearing on April 7th. So I don't think this is too late.

I've lost seeds when the soil has shifted, especially in milk jugs because the jug is somewhat wobbly. This year I've dumped about $70 into more specialized seeds and am hoping to get the most bang for the buck.

Thanks for that perspective morz8 - I did my homework before embarking on my first WS adventure in 2009/2010 and had Echinacea on the non-stratification list. Did the seeds germinate? Certainly, but since I WS them in December, I honestly couldn't say whether the cold winter months helped germination. I used the same cold stratification list this year but I checked a few specific seeds again to be sure the information I had was still accurate. That's when I came across a couple of websites that recommended cold stratification for Echinacea seeds so I moved them from the non-strat list to the cold strat list. This time I WS them mid-January and expect they'll do just as well this year as all the cultivars I grew last year. If they're on my WS seed list again next time, I'll go by whichever method appears to produce the best results.

You nailed it morz, those sound like the same sowing instructions that I found when searching it out. I sowed the seeds within the same week I got them from summerhills, ugh.

Terenne now, I kinda wished I would of babied them more. Though I will be honest I suck at growing anything indoors, unless it is illegal, just teasing I haven't done that since I was a teenager. LOL

Yes CC that might have been a plant that would have done well with some babying indoors. Honestly I had pretty good luck starting stuff from seed under lights for years, but winter-sowing is so much easier! I would still consider GUL (growing under lights) in special circumstances.

I got some Daylily seeds this winter on the Seed Exchange through a SASBE offer, and the poster (Jeanne_OH) specifically instructed that the seeds could not be winter-sowed or they would die. They can be started inside under lights or at a sunny window, but after doing a little research on growing daylilies from seed, read that some people sow them outside in the spring after the danger of frost has passed. I decided to wait until it warms up and sow them outside with my heat-lovers.

Clothier says
"Echinacea pallida, and purpurea , Sow at 20�C (68�F), if no germination in 3-4 wks, move to -4 to +4�C (24-39�F) for 2-4 wks

Echinacea angustifolia, paradoxa, and tennesseensis , Sow at 18-22�C (64-71�F) for 2-4 wks, move to 4�C (40�F) for 9 wks, move to 10�C (50�F) for germination"

Aquilegia alpina , buergeriana, canadensis, flabellata, formosa, glandulosa, nevadensis, saximontana, transylvanica, viridiflora, and vulgaris, Sow at Max. 5�C (41�F), germination irregular, often several months

Aquilegia atrata , Sow at 18-22�C (64-71�F) for 2-4 wks, move to -4 to +4�C (24-39�F) for 4-6 wks, move to 5-12�C (41-53�F) for germination

Aquilegia bertolonii, caerulea, clematiflora, laramiensis, longissima, rockii, scopulorum, and siberica �, Sow at 20�C (68�F), germination slow may take several months

Aquilegia chrysantha, , Sow at 20�C (68�F), if no germination in 3-4 wks, move to -4 to +4�C (24-39�F) for 2-4 wks

Aquilegia olympica , Sow at 20�C (68�F), if no germination in 3-4 wks, move to -4 to +4�C (24-39�F) indefinitely.

terrene, if you are still thinking about containers for your expensive seeds, i have found that windshield wiper fluid containers are much sturdier than milk cartons. i raided the trash cans outside of our autozone and pulled out about 10 in one trip, or maybe a local car place would save some for you?

I know what you guys mean about expensive seeds-- i have invested heavily in daylily seeds this year and have been fretting about them all winter. finally i ran out of space and time and now they are all potted up in various stages-- some sprouting in the bathroom, some still seeds in cups doing the on the rocks method, some outside the greenhouse in a traditional wintersown way, and some in the greenhouse (unheated) with the lids off because i ran out of flat space for containers outside lol. i figure the greenhouse is one big ws container; i just have to remember to water. add all that to the vast collection of seeds other than daylily i have started. i have lost my mind! LOL i can't wait for the green wave you experienced wsers talk about-- high hopes and all fingers crossed :)

I bought 5 Hinnomaki gooseberry seeds for $3 and put them out with the other WSing...crossing my fingers...

Terene,

Your columbine origami mixed color seeds will bloom the first year from seed.

I planted mine a few years ago in mid March and they bloomed in June through the end of July.
They have a long bloom period, rebloom actually and you don't need to dead head them.

A friend of mine sowed some of my origami blue seeds last spring, in mid April and they bloomed for her all of the month of July.

Since your's are mixed colors, you don't know what each plant will bloom in color till the bloom.

You might want to plant each seedling as an individual until it blooms. Once you know which seedling is which color, when they finish blooming, you can move the plants into clumps of like colors to have larger plants for next year.

If you don't care if they bloom mixed together than just plant them as clumps.

I sowed mine, but they where all individual colors in cottage cheese containers, with about 15 seeds together in each container sort of scattered in the center of the container.
then I planted the seedlings as one clump. If you purchase the plants in the nurseries, it is usually in a large container that has at least 10 plants in it.

That's how a friend of mine that owns a farm and greenhouse in the area I live in sows seeds, and told me how to sow the seeds.

They are worth the time to sow and the expense, they are a beautiful long term bloomer and stay nice and bushy, not to tall, not to short.

Fran

Hey Fran, thanks for the info! Part of the reason I bought the Origami seeds were the pics you posted awhile back, and because they bloom the first year. Also they are gorgeous - LOVE that Columbine. But let me clarify - I wrote "Origami mixes" in the first post, but really meant the single colors. That's why they were more expensive. I wanted to plan the colors, bought the Blue & white, Pink & White, White, Yellow, & Rose Queen. Wooopeee!

Last year I bought and winter-sowed A. caerulea 'Mixed Colors' from Everwilde. Those will hopefully bloom this year, but the colors will be a surprise.

I have been pondering this same question, how to best maximize results from expensive seed?

I have decided to ws some in a milk jug as seem to get best results in them. Am also going to try a few seeds in a 2L.

I have too many veg. seeds that needed to be started inside and don't want to do the same for expensive perennials.

WHOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!! I got a sprout out of my climbing blueberry!!! Notice I said A sprout!! But I am Ok with that!!

My luck watch it be a weed, but dog gone it till I see any difference it is climbing blueberry, WHOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!! LOL