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greylady_gardener

monarch butterflies--tiffy, anyone?

greylady_gardener
13 years ago

tiffy, I have already sent you and e-mail but wanted to let you know in case you were wondering who was sending you an e-mail titled 'monarch cats'

anyway I have the cutest little cats and they will be feeding not only on the volunteer milkweed that showed up in my garden a few years ago, but I wondered if I could also cut some of the leaves of my WS milkweed--'soulmate' and a plant from WS seeds of 'milkmaid' that turned out to be pink but certainly welcome anyway! :) I was hoping that it wouldn't upset them to 'change their diet' :) or at least to add to it.

Comments (123)

  • greylady_gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    well it seems I am a bit backed up with the posts. I am amazed at the beauty of the black swallowtails!! I know we have the yellow ones here but don't think I have ever seen the black ones. How fun that someone would send you some monarch eggs terrene. I hope they are all going to do well for you.
    tiffy! I am exhaused fussing over my babies. I can't imagine what you must be doing. LOL. and to have already had some releases is amazing.
    I am hoping to plant some more seeds of milkweed this week and hope that it has a good start for next year. I want more out the back as I had planned to rip it out of the front garden this year, but had to change plans when I saw the monarchs laying eggs. I would like to confine it to other gardens though, and am now thinking that the area out back that I didn't get to renovating this year will become a total butterfly garden next year with not only milkweed for the monarchs but dill and parsley and other plants for other butterflies.
    This morning I got to watch the transformation of two of my guys. I am laying around and vegging as I woke up with a nasty throat and cold! At least it gave me time to sit and watch them turn. amazing! :)that gave me six chrysalis and two big guys about to go. this afternoon they started the frantic wandering and this evening one has made his J and the other is about to, so by tomorrow they should each be in their chrysalis. The very first guy (you know...Louie :))
    pupated on the first so today is day ten. I could see him starting to darken this afternoon and tonight it seems I can almost see his wings. He will be eclosing very soon. wow I thought the time would drag waiting for it to happen but the other ones keep you so busy that the time seems to have flown.
    I need to get out the camera and take more pics

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh that's so exciting Greylady, your first baby is going to eclose, probably tomorrow morning! Hope you can watch and that you get some good pics of him...or her...what if "Louie" turns out to be a "Lois"?? :)

    Tiffy, your A. incarnata sounds magnificent. I have heard it can bloom the first year, but mine never have. It's such a beautiful plant in full bloom. Unfortunately I have had problems with wilt on the A. incarnata the past couple years. This year only 1 mature plant returned but I have 8 or 9 nice little WS'n plants (still a little dieback on the tips here and there though).

    Well, guys, I am a little overwhelmed here - not only do I have the eggs from nice lady in Mass., I am getting a shipment of eggs tomorrow from the nice lady in Pennsylvania. I will be nervously hovering over the mailbox so they don't sit in there and bake. On top of all this, I found 4 Monarch eggs in the garden today!! Finally they have made it here! When it rains it pours!

    Meanwhile the eggs from last night are hatching - at least 4 or 5 today. I am checking them constantly, trying to figure out who's hatched and where the heck they are and who's wandering around and get them on fresh milkweed. Trying to get organized and gotta go prep some more containers. It's butterfly chaos but I'm loving it! 8-O

    Here's the lovely lady who came to visit today, and left me the eggs -
    {{gwi:420334}}

  • greylady_gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What a lot of fun this morning has been....if I didn't have this rotten cold it would maybe have been a 'bit' better though. :)

    I have just set my first "TWO" babies free!!
    this morning both #1-Louie and #2-Katie were clearly visible in their chrysalises. I was really headachey and feeling rough and kept thinking I should take a pic. Sat for a while and finally decided to go and get the camera. I was gone for probably 30 seconds and came back to find Louie completely out of his chrysalis. I couldn't believe it! (okay I actually squealed)That was about 12 minutes to 8 this morning. He sat drying his wings and not moving much and just under an hour later I got to watch and take pics of Katie coming out her chrysalis!! very cool! they both sat drying for about another hour and then I decided to take them outside to sit on the front porch in the shade and wait for them to fly. Below are some pics of them.
    terrene--turns out Louie was appropriately named :), but we have had to change "Katie" to "Kenny" haha
    {{gwi:420336}}

    #1 just emerged-Louie
    {{gwi:420338}}

    this is #2 just emerging-Kenny

    {{gwi:420340}}
    Louie just flexing his wings before flying
    {{gwi:420342}}
    Kenny flexing his wings just before flying

    they both took off within a few minutes of each other. It was hard to believe it was over!
    They settled in the lower branches of the large city owned maple on my front lawn.
    what a fun experience. #3 is starting to get the dark streak down the chrysalis which means she is starting. The two that were forming J's last night are now fully in their chrysalises.
    Still lots of eggs to hatch and a tiny little guy that just seems to not be doing much growing--going to have to get him moving! :)

    Hope all is well with all of you and your butterflies!! :)

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    WOW Lois!! Those are beautiful! So perfect. Now how come you have two males and I have all the females?? LOL!! You did a great job - clap, clap!

    I do hope you feel better soon. Nothing like a cold or something in the summer. UGH!

    So what kind of Milkweed is everyone using? I'm a bit perplexed because I thought the Incarnata was the Milkweed which was 'native', but when I look at your container Lois, I see something different. Do you know the botanical name? I'll have to have a talk with my nephew who is a native plant specialist and clear this one up. I may not be growing the milkweed native to my province...

    I still haven't released any after the original three but something tells me that we will be busy this weekend. I'll have to take photos. :O)

    All the best!

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Congrats Greylady!! How exciting! Louie and Kenny are just beautiful. Sorry you aren't feeling well, but this has to give you a lift nonetheless. That is just fantastic that you saw Kenny come out of his chrysalis - coincidentally I saw my 2nd Monarch eclose too! Isn't is fun and addicting?

    Tiffy - sounds like you have a fun weekend coming up. Hope the weather is good for the youngsters. Yes take pics, I'd love to see your setup raising so many Monarchs and of course the Monarchs themselves!!

    Re: milkweed, it looks like Lois is using Asclepias syriaca, the common Milkweed, which has the fragrant light pink flowers. Is that the one you have tried to winter sow? A. incarnata is also native to North America - both have very large native ranges, but not sure that this includes Nova Scotia.

    I am going to use a bunch of different milkweeds for my babies - most are native here, but obviously not the tropical milkweed, which is native to the American tropics.

    - A. curassavica (tropical) - have 2 nice patches that are just starting to bloom
    - A. incarnata (swamp) - winter sown this year, about a foot tall but bushy and tender
    - A. syriaca - grows wild here and there in the yard
    - A. verticillata winter-sown 2009. Common name?? It has thin bushy leaves - looks a lot like Amsonia.

    I will probably end up using most of it too! See next post...

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well it's been a Monarch whirlwind around here! The rest of the eggs from the lady in Mass have hatched. A couple have "disappeared" but I've got 10 little cats munching away. Yesterday I hovered over the mailbox, and the box came from the lady in Penn. with 27 caterpillars! Apparently most of the eggs had hatched en route and the cats were swarming the cutting that she had included. On top of these nice gifts from other butterflyers, I have found a total of 6 eggs out in the gardens so far (probably more to come).

    I've gone from zero Monarchs to about forty in 3 days! That is approx. the same number I collected in 2008 but it was more spread out over time.

    Tiffy, how did you feed them when you had a lot of little guys? They are kinda hard to keep track of. I've been researching over on the Butterfly forum and the Monarchwatch forum, and decided to take cuttings of the tender young tips on the plants, and insert them into a floral foam cube wrapped in plastic. They look like little Milkweed trees! Then put 4-6 little cats on each cutting. Working pretty good so far, except when one of those little guys decides to wander down onto the cube.

    Here's a pic with a cutting, with 1st and 2nd instar cats. The 2nd instar came in the mail and he's my biggest Monarch baby right now -
    {{gwi:420344}}

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay tiffy & terrene - I've been enjoying reading this thread and seeing your pics but now I'm in a complete pickle. I found two monarch cats on my milkweed a half hour ago and have NO IDEA what to do with them. My mother grew milkweed purposely for the monarchs but I didn't live here at the time so I have no clue how to raise them. These little guys are about 1 1/2 inch long.
    Can one or both of you tell me what needs to be done? Or do I leave them to fend for themselves since I'm ill-equipped to give them the optimum growing/eating/pupating/eclosing experience? Any help/advice/suggestions welcome!
    Eileen
    N. Central CT (2 mi. from MA state line)

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Gardenweed, 1 1/2 inches is pretty big - they are probably getting close to pupating. Personally, I would leave large caterpillars in the garden as I had the most success with raising Monarchs from eggs. But a couple posters on this thread collected big guys and have had success, for their very first time too, so go for it! They are fun to take care of and will crawl on your hand at that age. And you can watch them pupate and eclose, which is really cool.

    If you bring them in, you can put them in any variety of containers and you will need to feed them until they are ready to pupate and clean the container. Below is a link to a website with lots of info, written by Tdogmom who posts on the Butterfly forum. Actually, reading her blog is what gave me that last little push to jump in and try raising them 2 years ago.

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Terrene,
    From zero to 40+ in just a couple of days? When it rains it really pours! I guess we'd better be careful what we wish for eh? I know you can handle it. :O)


    If you look at the photo of my furry cat looking at the terrarium with the red top - well I now have 5 of those along with two rubbermaid snap top containers (holes were drilled in the top) on my kitchen table. Look at the bottom of the terrarium and you will see the floral foam. I cut it in sheets about 1.5 inches thick. I don't bother with the plastic but use a syringe to insert water where the stem of the plant will be.

    Every day when they are small - twice a day when they are big - I open them up, put the floral foam sideways and shake out the poop into the T. The cats are quite secure on their leaf and never have any fallen off. Then I place the foam on the table and empty the tank's poo content into the garbage. If I feel it's needed, I then clean the container out with javex, but rarely do I ever have to do this. I take note of where every cat is, remove any bare stem, replace with new food, and wish them a good night.

    I saw on one site that in labs where they raise Monarchs for research, they simply place paper towel on the bottom, then lay down the leaves, but I can't see how they'd be able to clean things out properly.

    Eileen,

    I think I just surmised what I do. LOL!! Be patient, try a couple, and see what happens. That's what I did 5 years ago. Oh, and read, read, read.

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gardenweed what do you think you're going to do??

    Tiffy you have a good system going. I will use a bigger chunk of floral foam as they get bigger. The plastic is nice on the foam because the poop is easy to brush off and it doesn't get stuck in the foam (or the holes from the stems). Also it holds the moisture in.

    Do you lose any cats? I've had several casualties along the way. Several have disappeared or died of natural causes; several subject to my mishaps (one got squished, dropped one on the floor, one got dumped into the compost, very clumsy!). Not all the eggs collected hatch either. My total is somewhere around 38 eggs or cats right now.

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    terrene - I checked when I got home this afternoon and only saw 1 cat on the underside of the milkweed leaf. I looked all around for #2 but didn't see him. A little while later I was walking from the clothesline to the cellar door and a monarch starting circling me, flying around and around. It made me stop and look around. There on a couple of milkweed plants were what look like lots & lots of orange eggs. Is that what they are? Will predators eat them?

    I'm trying to get in touch with my neighbor who rescues critters and is very knowledgable. I'm hoping she or her husband can think of a way we can help these guys along.

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The orange things you're seeing aren't eggs, they're aphids. Very common on milkweeds. A Monarch egg looks like a little white dot on the underside of a leaf. Oftentimes I noticed that a female Monarch prefers to lay eggs on the growing tips or more tender leaves on the Milkweed plant. Apparently the tender growth is better for small caterpillars. If they have to, they will lay eggs on whatever Milkweed is available, however.

    Here's a pic of some eggs I collected from common Milkweed in 2008. There is one egg on each piece of leaf.
    {{gwi:420346}}

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Terrene,

    I find it amazing how few casualties I have. So far this year there's only two cats I've had to euthanize. You could tell they were sick just by their behavior.

    My DD released two more yesterday - a male and a female. It was a late afternoon release and they just started flying this morning at 9 am. Today I should be releasing another 6 but am keeping a close eye on one since the crysalis did not form the way it should have.

    Hope you get to raise a couple Gardenweed. It's quite the adventure! :O)

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks tiffy but it looks as though I'll be observing this year rather than participating. There are 4 cats on various milkweed leaves just outside my kitchen door, off the back of the breezeway where my mom planted the milkweed 40+ years ago. If memory serves me, she used to put the cats in a mayonnaise jar so her grandkids (my son & daughter + my brother's two daughters) could see them on the weekends as they went through the various stages of becoming butterflies. Sure wish I'd paid closer attention back then!

    My neighbor who's more knowledgeable than me bird- & insect-wise came over to see them but said to leave them & let Nature take its course. I told her about you folks raising them and she was surprised.

    Now that I know what to expect and when, I hope to be better prepared next year. This too will be jotted down in my WS diary! It's been a year for firsts. The hollyhocks, butterfly bushes, poppies, mallow, balloon flower and gaura I WS bloomed 1st year from seeds plus I've got buds on the turtlehead I WS!

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi guys, how are everybody's Monarchs doing? Tiffy how are your releases going this weekend?

    Gardenweed, if you're interested in rearing some Monarchs next year, you can winter-sow Asclepias incarnata (swamp) and A. curassavica (tropical). Easy peasy from seed and swamp will put on some size in one season, maybe bloom, and tropical grows up here as an annual with a lovely milkweed bloom. I've got seeds if you want some!

    Here I'm busy-busy raising 38 little cats - all eggs have hatched and the biggest cat is 3rd instar. I ended up finding 5 eggs outside and then 2 little teeny cats on the tropical milkweed when I was taking cuttings. The Mama monarch was here about 5 or 6 days and then she disappeared. Don't know if another female will wander by but it's getting late in our season.

    Here's a pic of one of the cuttings with 6 little cats! Actually there are 8 on this cutting (2 are hidden), all the same age from the lady in Pennsylvania. This is the only cutting with that many cats but they seem happy and I'll separate them when they get bigger.
    {{gwi:420348}}

    Here's one of my patches of A. curassavica - it's budding now and will be blooming within a week. This one's growing in partial sun, doing okay.
    {{gwi:420350}}

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was able to get a few shots of the cats on the milkweed off the back of my breezeway. They've moved to other, larger plants after devouring all but the stem of the smallest one they could find.

    {{gwi:420352}}

    {{gwi:420354}}

    {{gwi:420355}}

    This afternoon when I got home from work I checked and they were all much larger than yesterday.

    Thanks for the offer of seeds terrene, but Ive got a huge seed pod on one of the plants that bloomed so I should have plenty.

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi gardenweed, that looks a nice big fat 5th instar caterpillar that will pupate soon. He'll probably disappear and go find a nice hidden place to do that. It looks like you're growing common Milkweed - Asclepias syriaca - which is a great food for Monarchs and has those fabulous fragrant flowers, but it spreads by runners and is best in a naturalized setting. I let mine grow in the little meadow in the way back yard.

    Tropical and Swamp milkweed are faster-growing and better-behvaed. Sometimes it's helpful to have a variety of species of milkweed to feed the cats too. If one of my little cats gets fussy, I change the food and that sometimes helps. My little guys are getting bigger but tending this many Monarch caterpillars is a lot of work!

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Took a few more pics this afternoon. One cat is clinging to the underside of a MW leaf while he chews his way through it from the tip toward the stem.

    {{gwi:420356}}

    {{gwi:420357}}

    {{gwi:420358}}

    {{gwi:420359}}

    The milkweed thats growing here was planted roughly 40 years ago by my mom. She wanted to raise the monarch butterflies. I assume the guy who lived next door back then told her she could do it. He was a naturalist and knew SO much about animals, plants, trees, rocks, insects, snakes. He could grow just about anything. He probably gave my mother the milkweed plants or else planted them for her. Theyre growing on a steep slope off my breezeway thats mostly gravel/sand. The soil (if it can be called that) is so poor even the milkweed isnt taking over. A lot of it got yanked out when I had the steps widened earlier this year but I asked the workmen to dig up one plant and stick it in a pot for me since my mother had planted it all those years ago. Thats the plant that has the huge seed pod on it. If the cats look like they're running out of food, I'll carry it round and set it near where they're feeding.

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    WOW!! Great photos Gardenweed!! Got to get some Syriaca seeds. Looks like a great plant!

    We've been very busy here. We released 25 since the 8th, but today was our biggest day at 9. My daughter was kept busy and is doing such a fantastic job. She has a real heart for them. :O)

    Thursday we leave for my parents home with the remaining crysalis. We should release another five tomorrow and the remainder will be travelling with us. Due to the long trip, I know some will eclose on the way so we have called one of my favourite nurseries to see if we can release there and they are so excited at the thought. It should be a fun time and I'll check you all out around the 29th!! :O)

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gardenweed, great macro shots! I love their little snouts when they're sticking out from a leaf. Very cute. That millkweed you have sounds very special since it came from your mother. That's nice that you made sure a plant was saved. Hope you get lots of seeds and keep the patch going.

    Tiffy - how busy you've been with releases. That will be me in another couple weeks and change. :) Your daughter sounds like a true butterflyer. Have a great trip and that's a cool plan to release at a nursery - and it sounds like your parents will be able to enjoy them too.

    Meanwhile, I am still busy with all these little cats. Still at a total of 38 Monarch cats, lost a couple, found a couple more. They are getting big and eating and pooping a lot! I tend them 3 times a day. It's quite time-consuming but fun time.

    Found 7 more little BST cats (1-3 instar) yesterday on the big old parsley plant that's gone to seed and brought them inside. A female have obviously been coming through and laying eggs. We haven't had measurable rain in over a month and everything is parched here, except for what I've watered (of course, the butterfly plants). This old parsley got watered a little and the cats were gnawing away on the seedheads. Gotta fatten these guys up.

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    tiffy - if I have enough seeds to share you're welcome to some. There's one ginormous seedpod on the plant I had the workmen pot up a couple months ago. I'm keeping my eye on it--the thing is almost 4" long and about an inch in diameter.

    Meanwhile, heres todays pics. Two cats are sharing a leaf and #3 has a MW plant all to himself. Theyre getting bigger by the day. Im not sure what happens next but Im keeping my eye on things hoping to photograph the entire process.

    {{gwi:420361}}

    {{gwi:420362}}

    {{gwi:420363}}

    {{gwi:420364}}

    {{gwi:420365}}

  • greylady_gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    wow lots of pics and they are all looking so great! good to hear how everyone is doing with their cats and butterflies. gardenweed, it looks like your cats will be ready to pupate very soon. they are big!
    terrene, I have tried to feed my cats with my incarnata, but they really aren't interested. they like the good old common syriaca (which is a volunteer in my garden). the little ones like the smaller tender top leaves and as they grow they like the bigger tougher leaves. I have tried off and on to give them the other type but they ignore it if the syriaca is available.
    tiffy are you on your way to your parent's? I can just imagine your neighbourhood with all your releases! great idea about releasing some at the nursery along the way.
    it has been busy around here. I have released three more since 'Louie and Kenny'. number three turned out to be a female as did the next two....the latest released this morning. I have four chrysalis right now but one seems like is getting ready to eclose and probably will some time tomorrow. there are seven cats about half grown and one tiny little guy that hatched overnight monday.
    I have taken some pics but haven't had the time to get them off the camera yet. will post some when I can.

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey guys, have meant to post sooner, but it's been crazy busy with these caterpillars the last few days!! 8-O

    Gardenweed, have your cats gone off to pupate? This is not easy to observe in the garden or the wild. Greylady, great to hear your little ones are moving along, aren't they picky, only wanting the A. syriaca. Sometimes mine have been fussy too. I don't have enough of one type of Asclepias to feed all of them, so when they are little I "trained" them to eat a variety - I'll put small cuttings of 2 or 3 species of milkweed and they eventually will eat from all of them.

    On Friday I had about 25 5th instar cats I was feeding - OMG it was worse than a newborn baby, I was checking them every 1-2 hours to keep them fed and barely slept. The big piggie caterpillars are munching machines! Thank goodness for those few A. syriaca plants with their BIG leaves, that's what kept all those big cats fed.

    This morning's count - 24 chrysalises, 51 Monarchs total! There have been a few Monarchs in the garden and I've collected more eggs and small cats in the past few days.

    Some pics! The big leaves on common Milkweed, provided lots of food for the big cats -
    {{gwi:420366}}

    This is a tattered older male who thinks the garden is HIS territory, on winter-sown Liatris ligulistylis. Liatris takes a couple years to bloom from seed but it's great for butterflies. This particular species of Liatris is supposed to have special chemicals that attract Monarchs? Anyway, they do seem to like it. -
    {{gwi:265739}}

    Oh, the "Runt" eclosed on Saturday morning, he turned out to be a she. had to run out for work, so I put her on Linden tree to warm up in the sun until she was ready to fly. I've also got 12 BST caterpillars in various stages of growth!
    {{gwi:420367}}

  • arbo_retum
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    man oh man, you guys are just the coooolest!! terrene sent me a link from the perennials thread and i have going through all the posting, feeling like i was reading an exciting novel that i didn't want to put down!!

    i KNOW how it takes time to unload your camera and then transfer the photos to GW, so plse know that i am SUPER appreciative of all your generous sharing!(and i'm sure there are hundreds of appreciative lurkers as well.) what a breathtaking hobby. Like skydiving, but a lot safer!!
    thanks again, and congrats on all your success,
    mindy

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice to 'see' you here Mindy!!

    What a whirlwind of a year with the Monarchs, and it's not over yet. We started for my parents home early on August 19th and before the halfway mark, 3 Monarchs had eclosed. When we dropped by the nursery we had contacted to release them, we discovered that they had sprayed pesticides just two days before. I was glad they were honest. A lady overheard our conversation and she knew of someone with organic gardens who, as it turned out, was THE best person we could have released our Monarchs to. Such a wonderful person with beautiful gardens. She even called her workplace and told them she couldn't make it that afternoon because she was called on to 'babysit' at the last minute. Too sweet!!

    We released over 30 Monarchs with my parents and many other family members. It was such a delight. My mother was constantly heading out to the gardens to see 'if they are still there'. My goddaughter saw two of them eclose and was awed by the whole experience. She released those two herself. :O)

    Coming back yesterday we were not empty handed. My parents asked that I take their caterpillars back to Prospect Bay to make sure they stayed safe and got a fair chance. I haven't counted them but there should be over a dozen all at different stages.

    My father was happy to see the Monarchs. He often came in from his slow walks telling me how many he had seen, but I think he was most interested in the cats which we gathered and amazed at how quickly and big they grew. Some were in their fifth instar when we left yesterday.

    I also bonused on the way home. We dropped by another nursery and they had 50% off perennials. I told my DD to be on the lookout for Milkweed. She first spotted the Tuberosa, so I told her we already had it. Them she comes up with a pot in hand and says, "This one says Milkweed but it sure doesn't look like it." I nearly screamed but gave her a huge hug - it was the one in your photos. One which I've been trying to get for about four years. I believe it to be our native Milkweed as well.

    So what is the botanical name of this Milkweed?? I've been given Swamp Milkweed seeds for a few years in trades but it turns out to be Incarnata, so I began to think that Incarnata WAS Swamp M. ARGH!! This is the first time that common names has flustered me. It got to the point that I thought Incarnata was the native Milkweed here but my nephew, who specializes in natives, finally told me it wasn't during my visit. (So good to talk to him as we seem to be from the same branch :O)

    OK, I'll let you folks go. Rambling here.

    Yep! It's been a great summer!

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Mindy, glad you enjoyed our butterfly saga, maybe you will grow some milkweed at the 'retum?

    Tiff, I just happened to log on minutes after your post and was excited to read about your trip and how you shared the Monarchs with so many people. So nice that your parents enjoyed them. My father happened to come over the other morning when the Runt had eclosed, so he was able to see her up close. I am confused what milkweeds you are talking about though - what is the species name of the one you got at the nursery? I've always known "swamp milkweed" to be Asclepias incarnata.

    Meanwhile, I had a little Monarch trauma last night - 2 of the big cats were in the J position and I banged their container and knocked them off their silk pad and they fell to the bottom of the container. Panic! I did some research on the internet and got them to attach their back feet to a small strip of cheese cloth, and then taped them back up in the hanging position. So far, one looks like it has pupated okay, the other looks a little rough.

    Btw, I am officially a Monarch Waystation! Registered last week, and received my certificate the other day. Also ordered the sign, which I plan to put near the A. tuberosa growing next to the sidewalk, so people who pass by can read the sign.

  • grandmachris
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Many years ago when our children and families were assembled in Indiana for a niece/cousin's wedding over Labor Day Weekend it was Monarch season. I took the very young grandchildren, five children, six and under out into the pasture where we found cats and put them in jars. Two cats stayed here in Indiana, two went to Greensboro, NC and one to Salem, Oregon. I didn't know enough about Monarchs then and felt guilty when I found out about the different groups and the different migration route patterns. I hope the NC transplants did ok but I don't have much hope that the one transplanted to the West Coast
    successfully migrated.

    Now I just go out and observe the ones I see in the pasture. I have good luck seeing the cats but am less likely to find eggs or chrysallises.

    Love this thread!

  • bev2009
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have been having many black and yellow swallowtails and monarchs in the garden, but have only seen one cat for a few minutes. He was large and when I came back later, he was gone. I have a couple of different milkweeds. Since the butterflies are here, I don't know why i am not getting the cats. Last year I did get the swallowtail cats on the dill and this year I only had one dill plant, but you would think the milkweed would attract more.

    Tiffy,love your story. What a great way to share with family. That's something everyone will remember.

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Terrene,

    That's the problem... The nursery simply had it labeled as Milkweed. I think it's Syriaca since I asked for a site which could give me info on Milkweeds at the Butterfly Forum and was given, by Bev :O), the link below. Really helpful.

    You see, native plant specialists around here speaks of the Swamp Milkweed as being the native Milkweed, but I think they are referring to the Syriaca (Common Milkweed) since when they see my plants - Incarnata - they say it is not native. I have never seen the so called native Milkweed in Nova Scotia since most are found in clusters deep inside the province. My nephew knows of one area and we have made a date to go see it next summer. :O)

    There is no doubt that it looks like Greylady's photos, and in one of your photos too where you call it Common Milkweed.

    Anyone ever try to propagate by stem cuttings? The link attached says that it would take 6 to 10 weeks and I am soooo tempted to try it. We have beautiful autumns here and I'm wondering if I would have enough time. If I did it now, it would bring me into October by the time they would root. Our ground sometimes doesn't freeze until mid/late January. I might try it...

    I started reporting on Journey South yesterday. Does anyone here do that? Terrene - do you report released ones? Oh, and congrats on the Waystation!!! Is that just an American thing or can Canadians participate? Any requirements?

    Lois,
    Any more cats?? Still seeing Monarchs in your gardens? I saw on Journey South that there were still reports coming out of Barrie and a couple more places in Ontario.

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tiffy, isn't that the coolest thing - going on an excursion with your nephew to secret patches of milkweed deep in your province! You will be able to verify what is native to your area if it has planted itself there. Maybe you'll discover a sub species or something! How fascinating. Curious though that you guys up there might be calling A. syriaca "swamp milkweed" as this species does not grow in wetlands, whereas A. incarnata is an obligate wetland plant.

    As for cuttings, I have never done this but have read other threads that people successfully root Asclepias cuttings. Definitely worth a try! Of course we tend to start things from seed here on this forum. :0) I started A. syriaca from seed 2 years ago and it is a slow grower.

    I've never heard of Journey South? Will check that out. My Monarch babies are going to start eclosing this coming week and I'd be happy to report the releases. Oh, the Waystation is definitely not just an American thing - there are many waystations in Canada.

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think I found one of the monarch cats in the photos I posted above. I spotted this on my porch gutter in the shade a few minutes ago. Is this a monarch chrysalis?

    {{gwi:420368}}

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gardenweed has arrived in the land of Monarchs!!! Congratulations on your crysalis! Hope you get to see it eclose and dry it's wings. I know I don't 'catch' all caterpillars and often look for crysalis in the gardens but have yet to spot one.

    I'll have to check on the Waystation designation Terrene. Sounds interesting.

    I started the cuttings last night and did more today. There's over a dozen. I applied some rooting hormone to try and help things along. Did some Buddleias this way this year and it worked well and quickly. Got 50% to root in just 3 weeks. If I get 50% of the Milkweed to root I'll be very happy.

    I sent my nephew a photo of the plant I had and he says it is Syriaca and it is the native Milkweed here. I asked where the 'swamp' designation came from and he said it was because it is found mostly along quiet riverbanks but if one examines the soil, it is actually not wet or overly moist. He says he is going to look into the name and it's provincial habitats a bit more just to make sure. I think I've peaked his interest on this one. I'd love to have his job - studying native habitats and populations of certain species of animals and plants as chosen by local universities and governments. WOW! To camp all summer long!

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Woohoo!! Thanks tiffy! I was 99.9999% positive that's what it was but I couldn't reach my neighbor (who's the knowledgeable one) by phone to ask. She's coming over later to see it. I hope I get to see it eclose but chances are slim since I work F/T. If I start to see activity, I'll haul the big step ladder over so I can climb up & take close-up shots to post.

  • Tony G
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi everyone, lots of monarchs this year in Minnesota. Got our first eggs on common milkweed May 24th and it's been a busy summer ever since.

    Adding "tropical milkweed" to the garden this year has been was a great addition because when the common milkweed starts to get "undesirable" the tropical is is just starting to bloom. And the adults love the nectar!

    I think the BEST addition to the garden though was liatris ligulistylis...there is usually anywhere between 10-25 monarchs fluttering around the backyard since this started blooming in late July. I've never seen anything like it!

    I remember seeing a post above where someone recommended "letting nature take it's course" and not raising the monarchs indoors.

    The survival rate of monarchs outside is estimated to be 10% and I would say that is a GENEROUS estimate. We have hundreds of eggs in our yard every summer, yet I have never seen a chrysalis. Most of the eggs or caterpillars are devoured before they even get to that point. so save a monarch and bring him/her inside!

    Here is a picture of monarchs on liatris taken a few days ago. Enjoy! Tony

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice find on the chrysalis Gardenweed! Tiffy I am curious about the results with your cuttings. Common milkweed is slow from seed, perhaps cuttings will grow and bloom faster?

    Tony, nice pic of the Monarchs with the Liatris ligulystylis - I winter-sowed it in 2008 (see pic above) and it's blooming for the first time this summer. I don't get nearly as many Monarchs as you do though. You're lucky to get so many!

    Well my first Monarch eclosed this morning! The oldest caterpillar from the lady in Pennsylvania. It's been 10 days since she pupated. I was worried about this particular caterpillar because although it appeared healthy it had a deformity in one of its antennae. One was normal, the other was just a stub (see pic). Because this is one of the symptoms of OE, I was worried this caterpillar wouldn't make a healthy butterfly. Well, she came out perfect with 2 normal butterfly antennae!

    {{gwi:420369}}

    {{gwi:420370}}

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    WOW on the Liatris Tony!! I see you are a new member so WELCOME!! Will you be collecting seeds from this Liatris? It has really peeked my interest. :O) Beautiful photo.

    You are right about the estimate on the survival rate. It is quite low and that is one of the reasons why I started doing this. Just giving nature a helping hand!

    Terrene - I started the cuttings yesterday. We are getting hit severely by one of those heat waves from the south so I hope they can keep hanging on. Gave them lots of water and we'll see if they take.

    Some of the cats from my parents home are already making their crysalis. My mother is calling every night to get an update on them. Too sweet!

    Oh, and congratulations on that beautiful Monarch!

  • Tony G
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Terrene- You may find better luck with your liatris next year if you have a warmer summer. We've had a much warmer summer this year and way more monarchs than the cool summer of 09.

    Tiffy- thanks for the kind welcome. so glad to have stumbled across you and this forum. As for seed collecting, I most likely WILL be collecting seeds from the liatris as well as some of our other butterfly magnets.

    I've never collected seeds before but after the success of our butterfly garden this year we would like to expand and also share some of the seeds with family/friends.

    If you would like some liatris seeds let me know and I can send some your way after we harvest them :) Tony

  • just1morehosta
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello every one, I am baaaaaaaack,
    WOW, so much has happened while I was away,what a fun read for me when I tuned in this morning,every one is doing so well with all your butterflies,and I am interested,Terrene,in how you got regestered,and what is a "Way Station, and what is OE,symptom?

    Look at you Eileen, way to go,your pictures are just wonderful.
    And welcome to all you new ones,I am new to raising them myself,

    Now, the good news from my end!

    I did get to see one , before we left, I could tell something was going to happen, the crysalis looked so much like a monarch,I came into the house, to grab one more thing to put into the car, and BAM!!!Just like that, he-she was half way out,so I watched,and it was fasinating,to see such beauty before my very eyes,slowly come into a new life,I almost wanted to cry.I did get a few pictures,and was able to set it free.
    I feel blessed to have seen such a wonder,from a tiny speck,on the underside of a leaf, to a cat,to a crysalis, to a monarach.Life is good.
    Tiffy, sounds as though your dad was very pleased.Nice to hear.

    The milk weed I have, is the common one,and the one that has the real pretty pink flowers,that smell good,will mine come back next year,or will I need to replant?I will grow more any way, but need to know the name,and if it will come back next year.

    Any one wanna hear about my vacation?I can post over on the conversation side.

    Missed you all,and was wishing for a lap top.:0)
    cAROL

    Be safe all of you in the path of Earl,Tiffy,Eileen, will you be ok?Tiffy, you are really close are you not?

  • greylady_gardener
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey all I am just popping in for a minute....wish I could talk but have so much going on ...it has been a terrible few weeks so I have not felt like posting but have tried to keep up with the news of your cats and butterflies.
    I am here right now because now I have a sad looking cat and am afraid that I may lose him
    he has been lying still since yesterday(just over twenty four hours now) and now seems to be on his side....but moves a bit if I wiggle the container. He shed his skin the other day so it isn't that
    not sure what to do....any thoughts anyone?
    I don't know what to do

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi guys, great to "see" you cAROL and Greylady! Tiffy, how are the cuttings doing, and are you going to get Earl up there?? Tony, we ARE having a warm summer here, still didn't see my first Monarch until early August. My yard is an "open woodland" I carve out what sunny spots I have in the Back Garden for butterfly plants and a few veggies. I would love to have a much bigger butterfly garden with more host plants! :)

    Sorry to hear that things are tough right now Greylady, hope that life improves for you. As for your sick cat, I don't think there's anything you can do - there is some mortality even with the best of operations. If the cat appears to very ill, I would isolate it from the others and put it in its own container, then clean the old container well and get fresh food, just in case it may have something contagious. I'm having a few problems too - it looks like I've got a sick BST cat, a BST that is having trouble pupating, and a Monarch chrysalis that is getting black spots! (Could be OE - Ophryocystis elektroscirrha)

    BUT aside from that....I've released 29 healthy Monarchs in the last 3 days! 13 on Wednesday, 12 on Thursday, and 4 today! It's been very hectic...but so cool, to look out on my Buddleia today and see 5 Monarchs nectaring! (all my babies)

    cAROL the Monarch Waystation is a program at Monarchwatch.org. You can register your yard/school/park or whatever as a waystation is you have the required Milkweed and nectar plants. Very cool!

    A couple pics. 9 Monarchs waiting to be released -
    {{gwi:420371}}

    This lovely lady is ready for take off!
    {{gwi:420372}}

  • gardenweed_z6a
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi everyone! cAROL welcome back!! I'm keeping an eagle eye on the chrysalis hanging from my rain gutter and it's a good thing--early this morning I saw a daddy-longlegs spider right beside it. I grabbed the broom and oh-so-carefully swept the spider off the gutter. He took off from the broom and quickly climbed up the side of one of my planters. Can't say if he posed a threat or not but I wasn't going to stand there and see him eat the chrysalis + what's inside. Lo & behold, around 4 o'clock this afternoon I saw either the same daddy-longlegs or a different one just a couple of inches from the chrysalis. I'd left the broom close by so I swept the spider away again.

    The chrysalis is becoming a darker color so I'm expecting the butterfly to emerge in just a matter of days. The neighbors are on the alert so there are 3 pairs of eyes + two digital cameras at the ready.

    Tiffy or Terrene - will the monarch eclose at night?

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gardenweed - very cool! Glad you're chrysalis is doing well. It would be great for you to see the butterfly emerge. They will not eclose at night. Mine have been eclosing in the early morning, finishing up by late morning. This morning they eclosed at the crack of dawn because I woke up at 7:00 and all 4 flew were hanging with wings pretty much expanded. BUT - yours is outside and it may depend on ambient temperature too. The house has been warm inside at night, with the hot weather we've had the last few days.

    2 years ago, IIRC, a couple eclosed in late afternoon. But I think morning is the usual time.

  • bev2009
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm watching the weather report right now, so I'm adding my prayers for everyone's safety.

    Without this thread, I wouldn't have known what I was seeing today. I looked out my kitchen window and saw a monarch cat hanging upside down from some native grass. I got so excited, I got my camera and took some pictures, but it was so windy they are a little blurry. I kept checking on him, then had lunch and read the paper. Looked again and he was done - there was the chrysalis.

    Now here is my question. Will this eclose, or at this point is it there until spring? Do any monarch hang around as chrysalis for the winter, or do they all head south?

    I've had so many monarch butterflies in the yard, but this was only the second cat I've seen.

    I appreciate everyone's knowledge here! Thanks.

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Bev, the chrysalis will eclose in about 10-14 days. IF it's healthy and hasn't been parasitized, or perhaps found by a predator and eaten, or some other hazards that could befall the chrysalis. However, it's already beaten enormous odds to make it to this stage (as you've noticed - lots little cats, not many make it to pupate). Perhaps next year you can help them along and bring some in to raise? :-D

    Monarchs are a tropical species. They can't overwinter in a temperate climate. They can't even fly below approx. 50 degrees F (10 C). In North America, there are 2 primary over-wintering locations - along the coast of California, and some fir forests in the mountains of central Mexico, where they are occasionally exposed to harsh weather, but many still manage to survive.

    Black Swallowtails, on the other hand, ARE a temperate species, and many of the chrysalises that I have in my tank right now will probably over-winter with me (in the garage) and eclose next Spring. Amazing that they can survive snow, ice, and freezing temps outside!

    (PS. We are pretty smart on this forum, but the real knowledge about b-flies is on the Butterfly forum! :)

  • Tony G
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just back from the garden this Sun Sep 5....12 monarchs and 1 hummingbird! Last year the monarchs were scarce by this point.

    I also still have 4 cats left that are at about instar 3...maybe 4? (I'm not sure how you distinguish) I'm a little worried about what the weather conditions will be when they hatch in late september...hopefully it stays warm enough for them to fly out of the cold frozen tundra!

    Can you find 9 monarchs in this picture??? {{gwi:420373}}From Monarchs & Liatris

  • terrene
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Tony I only see 7...maybe somebody else can see all of them! Gorgeous pic though, the purple Liatris against your sweep of yellow is nice. Also, looks like a nice patch of Zinnias in the background. No wonder the butterflies like your place. If you have lots of sun, I'm jealous...

    There is a Monarch pretty regularly on Liatris ligulystylis, also several at a time on the Buddleia 'Black Knight' when it's not too windy. Most or all of them are the butterflies I've been releasing but there could be a migrant coming through too.

    My last batch of 8 Monarch cats just pupated today and only one little cat left that just molted to 4th instar. Hope it doesn't get too cold by the time this guy's going to eclose. Maybe we'll have a warm fall!

  • Tony G
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Terrene, I have four that are about to eclose. I'm not too worried about them because we have a pot with 4 tropical milkweed plants that just started blooming, so I can keep the butterflies in our porch a day or two if there's a cold spell.

    But yesterday, I found a FIRST instar caterpillar on our outdoor tropical milkweed. I'm definitely worried about that one.

    Let's hope the monarch hatches during indian summer! Otherwise, I'm not sure what the options are. If anyone has a good suggestion let me know. I'll keep you posted on the progress of "The Last Minnesota Monarch" Happy Labor Day Everyone :) Tony

    Ps....yes, those are "lilliput zinnias" in the background. The monarchs like them a lot. The picture below is of the "come and cut again" variety on the other side of the yard taken a few days ago. I started them from seed and they have lasted a LONG time...on their last legs now though. {{gwi:420375}}From Monarchs & Liatris

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice photo Tony!!! That Monarch on the Zinnia is just so new and handsome! Oh, and I spot 8 Monarchs on that Liatris. :O)

    I still have about 30 more Monarchs in Crysalis form. This bunch started to eclose today and will be going for about 10 days.

    Hurricane Earl paid a visit and whipped us around for a few hours. The Milkweed stood their ground but I lost a few mature Buddleias. They are broken hard at the base and I'm just crossing my fingers they return next year.

    In all that mayhem, we found some tiny caterpillars which had hatched during the storm so Earl 1, Earl 2, earl 3, etc. have come inside the house. There's a total of 6 more so far.

    I've released Monarchs as late as October 21st - 3 years ago - during a warm 5 day spell, and hope we get the same this year. My thoughts on this is that at least they are given a better chance at survival than if they were not reared.

  • bev2009
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, my monarch crysalis was eaten by something. There's a rather large hole on the side of it. I look forward to trying my hand at raising some cats next year. I'll have all winter to read about it.

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh Bev, so sorry to hear about that. A couple of years ago I thought I would let nature take it's course after raising some for a couple of years. Then one day I saw a Soldier Bug use one of the small caterpillars for food and that changed my mind. Since then I've not been able to leave any Monarch cats 'out there'.

    We are now releasing the brood we brought from my parents home in August and now are finding all kinds of little cats on our plants. :O)

    I do hope you try to raise them next year and get to release these beauties!!

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