I direct sow. Last year I did poppies and larkspur. I did the same in the fall and sowed nigella, queen anne's lace, and tons of seeds pulled during deadheading. Some have already germinated, some haven't. I expect to have some results, but won't know until the spring.

In areas of good soil, I already have seedlings. They'll overwinter here fine. In poor soil areas where clay and stone are prevalent, I have some germination, but much less than where I have 8" deep good black dirt.

I'll be scattering seeds all winter long. I've got too much to wintersow in the traditional manner. So, for seeds that I have lots of, but don't necessarily want to wintersow, I plan to do one container, then make cloches from the tops of 2 liter bottles. I'll dig a hole, fill it with good soil, and cover with the cloche just like I would a container. That eliminates the planting out step at least. I'll start doing those in January. I suspect they will germinate later than the containers that will warm up faster on the exposed concrete.

When I direct sow, I pull back the leaves and sow onto the soil. I've found from last year that if I toss out the seeds onto leaf covered areas, I get very little germination. In the spring, I pulled back the leaves, shred them, and redeposit them as a thin mulch. I try to give the seeds a week or more to get some sun and warmth before recovering the beds. The biggest issue is keeping the seeds moist until they've got their first true set of leaves. Same principle as wintersowing. For me, it took a lot of sprinkler time in the fall. I watered twice a day for 15 minutes each time for 2 weeks. Spring is usually a wetter time.

Right now, my perennial bed is a sea of green from all my fall sowing. It's mostly red clover, which acts as a green manure/cover crop. I'll pull it as I start planting out in the spring. It puts nitrogen back into the soil and helps break up heavy clay. I bought it in bulk from a feed store. 5lbs for $6. Not too bad.

Larkspur seedlings and clover.

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My rabbits would head for that clover - but it is pretty.

carrie

You know Carrie, I've wondered about rabbits here. I have it sown in the perennial bed and in the new meadow bed I started this fall. I bought it mostly for the meadow bed, and so far, I've not seen a single rabbit, nor has any of the clover been munched on. I'm surprised, but there are a lot of cats in the area that patrol the yard looking for birds, insects, and other critters.

That is another concern for direct sowing. Slugs were really bad in one area this spring and ate almost everything I planted. I use wood to heat in the winter, and Louise Riotte recommended using ashes from hardwoods to deter slugs. The remaining charcoal in those ashes can also help to loosen hard packed clay. So I've been tossing out my ashes about twice a week in areas where I have had problems.

Wow, thanks for the tip about ashes Token. We also use wood to heat and go thru probably 14 truckloads of firewood every winter. My husband always threw it on the driveway, or over the bank. So I will definitly try this in the beds near the house where I have had so much slug problems last yr.
Tammy

Tammy, just be careful around plants that like acidic soil. Wood ashes are high in phosphorous and will change the chemical composition of the soil quickly. It's the same as applying lime to the soil. I also use wood ashes in my tomato beds to prevent Blossom end rot. Make sure there is no treated wood or lead paint on the wood you burn.

I have a lot of slug problems too and lost many plants to those things last year. I don't have access to wood ash though I might see if I can arrange some from my brother's fireplace. I do give him wood occasionally after all. I wanted to mention that pine needles make an excellent mulch that adds acidity. Maybe with a bit of both things would be a bit more even.
I'm hoping to direct sow a lot this year, especially calendula, poppies, nicandra, and morning glories which I'll soak first.

I also do some direct sowing both in the fall and in the spring. Mostly annuals though have done some perennials. In the fall I pull or cut stems with seeds and drag and shake them along the ground where I want new seedlings. Others I just sprinkle here and there.

Last year I did some poppies using 2L tops to protect the seeds and seedlings as well as some without 2Ls. They all grew well and I won't use the 2L tops again unless it is a very special seed that I think needs extra care.

I agree with Token, two things that need attention are removing mulch so seeds can make contact with the soil and keeping moisture levels up to promote germination and seedling growth. For me the third is thinning the seedlings.

Token, my husband only burns tree logs, so no paint or treated wood. But in my beds i have a variety of things so, it might not be a good idea after all.I never thought of the chemical composition of the ash. In one particular bed that had lots of snails, I have hosta's in plus I planted a variety of annuals.
tammy

I attended a a workshop at Brent & Becky Heath's place yesterday (and an incredible 75% off sale on spring flowering bulbs). After they plant bulbs, they direct sow flower seeds. This is how Becky describes it:

"To create a meadow-like effect in the garden (I call it his 'plant orgy', because he throws everything in the same bed!), Brent often over-seeds in the spring and fall with annuals and biannuals after he plants bulbs. He broadcasts seed on top of the disturbed soil and gently rakes it to cover it. In doing so, he creates lovely sweeps of color that either blooms with or follows the the blooms of the spring flowering bulbs. We hope that you will try and enjoy this technique for creating fabulous combinations. We suggest for zones 3-6 that you broadcast the seed in the spring; for zones 7-9 in the fall, unless otherwise stated."

A list of the seeds they sell for direct seeding gave me ideas about what I can direct sow now (in addition to poppies and larkspur) and what to sow in spring when the ground warms up:

Allium tuberosum - Garlic Chives; an edible ornamental with star-shaped fragrant white flowers and umbels that bloom from late summer to autumn; self sows but has not become invasive for us; great in arrangements and in recipes.

Amaranthus var Gangeticus - 'Early Splendour' - bronzed leafed beauty with bright crimson flowers, giving the illusion of glowing embers on a dark night; perfect for that illusion of shadow or dark contrast in the summer tropical garden; 3'-4'; sow seeds mid- spring for a mid- summer to autumn display.

Celosia spicata - 'Flamingo Feather' or 'Wheat Celosia' - a wonderful tall, spiky accent plant for the late summer through fall garden; feathery plumes of soft pink turning to white at maturity; a soft contrast to big bold leafed tropical bulbs; tropical annual.

Centaurea - 'Bachelor Buttons' or 'Corn Flowers' - biannual that is terrific in our garden combined with camassias, lilies, alliums, eremurus and other late spring/early summer, full-sun loving plants; they typically bloom here in April and May; glaucous floiage is a nice accent also; 2'-3'; zones 6-9.

Cleome 'Spider Flower' - The perfect flower and height (2'-3') to combine with lilies, dahlias and many other summer flowering bulbs; tropical annual; plant seed in warm 60+ degree soil in the spring, after planting summer bulbs.

Consolida 'Larkspur' - spectacular biannual that provides us with showstopping display in May and June when lilies are at their peak; these are also terrific cut flowers; Larkspur reseeds in our gardens when we allow it to, but stays in the bounds of the garden; 2'-3'; full sun.

Dianthus barbatus Sweet William' - These late spring/early summer biannuals are the icing on the cake with alliums, camassias, eremurus and early lilies; incredible, lon-lasting cut flowers in various shades; 18"-30"; zones 4-9; full sun.

Malva sylvestris 'Zebrina' - 'Tall Mallow' has hundreds of 1" pale lilac blossoms striped darker purple against rich emerald green leaves; spring or fall seeded; blooms late spring to autumn; smashing with lilies and dahlias; 20"-40"; zones 5-9.

Moricandia arvensis - 'Chinese Temple Bells' or 'Violet Cabbage' - Nancy Hugo shared this incredible kale family member with us. It blooms in March, April and early May here in Virginia (zone 7b) and is an ideal companion for spring flowering bulbs; particularly lovely with daffodils and tulips; it reseeds in the garden but has not spread outside of the garden; full sun to part shade; 1'-2'; zones 6-9.

Patrinia scabiosifolia - Upright and variable, this plant will give you in late summer until late fall the most glorious and happpy yellow, cup-shaped flowers; this is a tall plant so it will do well in a fertile, humus-rich and moist meadow in partial shade and is the perfect companion with lilies and other summer flowers that like to take the spotlight.

Ricinus communis - 'Castor Bean' - plant in mid-spring for an incredible huge 3'-8' tall, shrub-like plant displaying 6"-12" almost black leaves; for that unbelieveable illusion of shadow backdrop for your tropical border; plant in 60+ degree soil; (CAUTION: the seeds and all plant parts are toxic if ingested - also critter proof!); full sun to part shade.

Also, when direct sowing or planting out hunks of seedlings, plant at diagonals to the path or typical viewing areas. You'll get that "drifting" look that makes a garden fuller.

Token: You wrote "for seeds that I have lots of ... I plan to do one container, then make cloches from the tops of 2 liter bottles. I'll dig a hole, fill it with good soil, and cover with the cloche just like I would a container. That eliminates the planting out step at least."

I'm trying to picture this -- you are looking for ways to make the process simpler and less labor intensive. The plan is to make mini gardens with good soil, add seeds, then cover the mini gardens with cloches made from tops of 2 ltr bottles? Will you end up with hunks of seedlings that you'd need to transplant? Or do you plan to seed thin, but have many little beds? If you cut 2 ltr bottles vertically (from top to bottom), could you use the longer cloches to cover more territory? Would this make the cloches too short?

I'm thinking about how to create larger mini-gardens that will not require much dividing and transplanting. Is that your game plan?

Nope. My plan is to sow directly where I want them to grow, using the cloches to cover the area. My entire garden will be covered with maybe hundreds of two liter bottle tops. I'll push them deep into the soil to hold them in place. Wind isn't usually an issue here.

So I can still protect the seeds and make sure they have the moisture they need, I just won't have to transplant them later. Carrie360 does this with poppy seeds.

Great idea! I remember Carrie's poppies. So you will plant 'in situ' on a large scale. I'll do this as much as possible - should save time and energy. May also be more productive because you won't have to move the new little plants, they can settle into their home right away.

I think in our zones, it'll work fine, Pam. We don't get the frozen soil in our yards that other zones do. Even in the coldest month of February, I've only had frozen soil on the north side of the house in total shade.

Another tip, when you pull out annuals that have been killed by frost, sow next year's seeds. Same idea as when you plant bulbs. The ground has already been disturbed so the seeds make good contact with the soil.

Thanks for the comments. I'm getting less nervous about DSing.

I d have to keep reminding myself that it's very different DSing when you have abundant seed than when You are trying to get a new type of plant started and only have a few seeds in a packet.

I also need to keep reminding myself that by direct sowing them I'm selecting for particular plants that are able to handle direct sowing conditions here. Since the big flower gardens will serve as my seed farm for the rest of the 15 acres it is quite valuable to me to start weeding out the weaklings.

Lynda

I d have to keep reminding myself that it's very different DSing when you have abundant seed than when You are trying to get a new type of plant started and only have a few seeds in a packet.

Exactly. I saved a quart sized bag of cosmos seeds this year. All orange or yellow. I won't bother wintersowing a single one. I'll direct sow them about a week before our last expected frost. They'll reseed all summer and I'll take out the overgrown ones throughout the season. I probably won't even collect them next year. They produce so many seeds.

I do some direct sowing. I have scattered seed for some annuals like Cleome, poppies, and Dill, and for the Zinnias, Tithonia, and Sunflowers I actually plant the individual seeds. I also direct sow a few veggies like beans and cucumbers.

The ideas here generally sound very good. I think that over-seeding is warranted when direct sowing, to ensure plenty of sprouts. Too many can always be weeded out. Also removing mulch, and maintaining soil moisture. I like to direct sow just before a good soaking rain is forecast.

I get tons of reseeding in the gardens at this point, so I don't have to do that much direct sowing because lots of things sow themselves.

I hear confidence born of experience in the posts by terrene and Token.

What's the worst thing that can happen from WS or DS? Nothing! We will have successes, failures, and mixed results, and will learn from our mistakes.

The learning curve is interesting. When I first found this forum, I read posts here, then read the WS posts on Token's blog. I can see that he's doing many things differently this year. A quart sized bag of yellow and orange cosmos seeds?!? Whoa! Token, I'm looking forward to seeing your gardens in a few months.

I'm thinking about making a few bulk seed purchases. Not like a quart, but more than I have now.

Stupid question but maybe somebody else wants to know besides me and is too shy to ask the same question..here goes..when you direct sow..does this mean that you just go outside in a particular site you have chosen and just scatter the seeds? What prevents the birds from scooping down for the seeds? Do you cover them with soil? OR do you start the seeds in containers and then plant them out in your flower beds or chosen site?

Pam, cheapseeds.com is a great place to pick up some common seeds for cheap. I got the creeping thyme, pink and white cosmos, and some siberian wallflowers. The lightest pack was the cosmos with only 4000 seeds. :)

I plan to do an entire bed, about 20' wide, 50' long. Around the edges, I'll scatter the pink and white cosmos in clumps. All the seeds sent to me in the winterswap will be scattered about too. I'm wanting a sea of color back there. I killed the grass earlier this summer. I've been collecting leaves and using it as mulch this fall. I'll rake them off in a couple months and shred them again, using them to recover the scattered seeds lightly.

Pippi, just rake the soil, scatter the seeds, and rake again. You will lose some to critters. You will lose some to them drying out. If it's really important that you have a certain plant, use the traditional wintersown method of containers, dirt, and cover. Direct sowing is great when you've got lots of seeds and don't care if some are lost.

Here's my collected cosmos.

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And from the roof, you can see the meadow garden in the center of the backyard. The orchard and meadow are where I'll do most of my direct sowing next spring. Larkspur and clover is already up. Poppies and rudbeckia have been scattered along with monarda citriodora. The monarda seeds had a bit of mold after I collected them, so I just scattered them instead of trading. I hope to get a few plants. It's an annual.

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I really was up there to clean the gutters. I had my camera in my pocket, so I snapped some pictures and created a composite. The image is a little warped from the software I used, and the meadow bed is really a lot larger than it looks in the picture. The upper potager bed is 4' x 16' to give you a sense of scale.

I love this! Using photos taken from an elevation is a good way to plan. If you begin with the elevated view, you can see the big picture. Then you can decide what components you want to include (meadow, orchard, potager, shrub island). Then you can drill down and focus on one or more parts. This may help me solve a problem.

I have a fairly large tract of land - 5 1/2 acres. The land was lightly forested when we bought it. A few weeks later, Hurricane Isabel rolled through, took down every tree. After loggging and clearing, I had a blank slate. I didn't know how to design that empty space into smaller gardens. It drove me crazy. I decided to begin by replacing trees since they take longer to mature. I've planted about 1,500 seedlings so the first stage - the reforestation project - is winding down. I didn't know what to do next. Now I know - I need to design a master plan.

My goal is similar to what you are doing - to create several gardens that are connected but that have separate identities. Our house is on pilings. I'll take some photos from 25-30 feet up, make prints, and start fiddling. Thank you!

Pam, you might consider doing a wild meadow for a few years, allowing the small trees to grow around them. Plant nutrient returning plants like crimson clover in the fall. It adds back to the soil. In spring, mow it down and sow annual reseeders like cosmos and black eyed susans and coneflowers. As the trees grow, the flowers will stop producing as many blooms and eventually, you'll get your masterplan. It helps to have a plan. Just don't be too rigid in it. You'll find tons of seeds you love growing.

I DS'd ALOT about a month ago. Most of my stuff got DS. Saving the jugs for delicates and herbs.

Melissa1977

Token, the wild meadow idea is good and will make the field more interesting as the trees grow. The first year, I planted several varieties of oaks, black cherries, a grove of bald cypresses near a wetland area/pond, a grove of longleaf pines. The black locusts are 20-25 feet tall since I planted them in spring 2008. Last year, they looked like giant green blobs - I had to prune them several times. They are nitrogen fixing plants so they improve the soil. Many of the oaks are over 5 ft.

Half the field has fairly good soil, the other half is poor. I'll plant the clover. Wind is a big issue. As the trees grow, they will provide a windbreak and shady areas. I'm really looking forward to that!

Thanks for the ideas and encouragement. I'll check cheapseeeds. It will be good to have more than enough of the main players.

If you can find red clover that has been innoculated, it'll add even more bacteria to the soil. It's usually dusted with a pink powder. I got mine from a feed mill by the pound. It's cheaper that way. You can plant it in the late winter for spring blooms.

Here's what 5lbs looks like.

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The few plants I had bloomed this spring when wintersown in December.

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token: "Direct sowing is great when you've got lots of seeds and don't care if some are lost."

A word of caution here. You don't want to throw thousands of seeds into your garden. I'd suggest taking it slowly, or you might end up with jungles of stuff that you can't get rid of.

I deliberately grew bonariensis in 2006 and 2007, and have been trying to rid the place of it ever since. These were just seeds that naturally fell from plants. It doesn't seem the seed bank in my soil will ever be depleted. Every time I disturb the soil to plant, yank a weed, whatever, they start appearing
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Ditto Snapdragon
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Ditto cosmos
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Ditto Yvonne's salvia
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Ditto digitalis
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Ditto larkspur
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Ditto rudbeckia... you get the point. Every time I disturb the soil at all, yank a weed or unwanted plant, it is replaced by a myriad of seedlings which were naturally sown. So if you grow a lot of flowers in a bed for a few years, there's a good chance you are already have a good seed bank there. It can become a real pita.

You might want to approach the direct sowing more slowly, a limited amount at a time, and see what happens.

Karen

Karen wrote: "A word of caution here. You don't want to throw thousands of seeds into your garden. I'd suggest taking it slowly, or you might end up with jungles of stuff that you can't get rid of."

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should have posted that yesterday, Karen.

I finished my direct sowing yesterday. :) The garden is now full of seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds seeds.

I'll probably post some hilarious photos this spring as my jungle germinates.

Lynda

Your hoe might be your best friend. Sharpen it :-)
But then, there's always Buster as a back-up.

Karen

Who's Buster? And my goodness Karen, you certainly have lots of seedlings popping up everywhere! They are all great plants though. :) And it looks like you use mulch too? I get lots of reseeders, but not as many as your pics, maybe because I usually have some leaf mulch in the gardens.

Lynda, is the area that you DS'd a naturalized area? If so, then maybe lots of seedlings is okay.

To Pippi - yes I direct sow some seeds by standing there and scattering the seed - poppies work really well this way. You can thin out or transplant later (well, poppies don't transplant easily). Some seeds I actually plant the seed in the soil one at a time. And still others, are transplants from WSing or swaps/nursery.

Terren - no, it's not naturalized. It's two large garden sections (porch garden and border garden), one made up of 12 normal sized beds and the other made up of 18 of them. Here's a small section of the porch garden:

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That was taken last spring and most of that was lawn the previous year.

The seedlings shouldn't be a huge problem. I've got no problem hoe thinning them if need be.

I don't mulch my flower beds. I'm counting on having a lot of plant density to discourage weed growth and keep soil well aerated by hoeing - that makes it easy to nudge out unwanted seedlings.

Buster is Buster the polka dotted goat, who at times has been Buster the house goat. Once was when he broke his leg two years ago and had to be in a cast for three months.

Buster is actually back in the house right now as he recovers from a serious illness that had him nearly paralyzed at the start of December. It was so bad for a while we thought we might have to euthanize him but he's turned a corner in the past few days and now we are feeling really good that he'll make a full recovery. He's going out each day with the other goats for herd time and exercise but he still needs house time for a while to continue regaining his strength.

Karen's been a big fan of Buster's since we discussed him in a WSing thread that wandered off into talking about how different our lifestyles are even though we only live about 2 hours away from each other.

Buster is housebroken (thank goodness) provided you don't waste any time opening the door for him when he gives the signal. As we started with light exercise he spent some time in the front gardens trimming my perennials.

Karen is very right that any oversowing can be easily fixed by letting Buster munch the posies.

Lynda

Here is a link that might be useful: Buster the house goat

And here's Buster helping clean up after the turnip harvest:

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Lynda

One other thing about hoeing - I've got the gardens layed out so that I can tend the aisles quickly and easily with a wheel hoe. There is also a perimeter path so that what's left of the lawn can't spread into the gardens.

There is no spot in any garden bed that can't be easily reached for hoeing or for hand weeding. I don't like having to do contortions to grab a weed that's just out of reach so I planned this garden to avoid that.

Even as each of the 30 beds turns into a jungle I'll still have nice clear tending paths. It makes it easy to do a quick check of every part of the garden daily and address weed or crowding problems before things weed pulling is even needed.

I've attached a link to the little hoe I use. The same site also has the Wire Weeder which I use to stir and aerate the soil between plants.

Here is a link that might be useful: narrow colinear hoe

Gee, having a goat in the living room must do wonders for the carpeting. Aromatic too?

I feel pretty safe in saying that no goat will ever grace my living room. I prefer flowers and human guests.
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And, no, I don't want to know what cud is.

And, if some goofball plants THOUSANDS of seeds, well-planned paths can be eaten overnight :-). Lynda, I can't wait to see your year two!
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No offense intended Lynda. Sometimes you just tickle my funnybone. I'm trying to imagine the look on my husband's face if he came home and found a goat in a playpen in the living room!

Karen

I love that this forum has turned into a gardening forum, not just for wintersowing. There is lots of good advice and knowledge in these parts. ;)

Karen,
I know I should be careful what I wish for. But I wish I had your problems with direct sowing. I tried with several varieties, unfortunately most never showed. I'm hoping some are just slow germinators, but more likely the efforts to attract more birds to our home are going well. (this year we had nuthatches, goldfinches, piliated and red bellied woodpeckers, new to us)
I will direct sow again as it was great for poppies, and our bird friends do seem to enjoy the buffet, but I'd have to agree with token, not for the seeds which I have too precious few.

I think the goat is kinda cute, goats have pretty eyes. Does he whine or mew or bleat or whatever sound goats make when you're paying more attention to the dog?

Many years ago I wanted to increase my columbines, so I took the dried stems of the few I had in the garden and shook them around here and there. It took over a year before I saw all the blooms, but I had an array petal count, some with or without spurs, and a range of blues, pinks, purple, plum, white and an odd grey color--well, the grey wasn't bad and actually was lovely--you just don't expect grey for a flower bloom. Open-pollinated columbine seedlings are like a mixed litter of kittens, you never know what you'll get but you'll love everyone.

I do a lot of seed packing here and as expected some of it hits the floor :-O but waste not want not--I have a new bagless vacuum with a catcher cup which I dump over the side of the porch behind a shrub. I don't know all that will sprout there but it will amaze.

Yesterday I finished packing out a large bag of mixed wildflowers--once you get to the bottom there's more chaff than seed, though it is still loaded with a lot of very small seeds. Well, it doesn't look right for sharing so I dumped the remainder over the other side of the porch railing--that's gonna be a sight when those sprout and grow too.

Direct sowing can be a hazardous thing--not to the sower but to the seeds. Seeds are food! and Mother Nature will take as many as she can. So, when you're direct sowing you must sow heavily to avoid disappointment, you must be realistic and expect less than a ten percent of the seeds you sow will survive long enough to bloom--ten percent might actually be a high number. But if you're sowing 40,000 poppy seeds then 400 plants is still 400 plants.

Obviously results will vary based on predator, climate, and skill and tools of the gardener; but when it comes down to it direct sown seed survival is mostly dependant on luck--you either get eaten or you don't.

Mother Nature is very hungry.

Trudy: Re: dealing with Mother Nature's voracious appetite, would floating row cover offer protection? It allows rain and sun in, keeps critters out.

It will certainly help to prevent birds getting in there as well large critters, and it protect the soil from washouts in thunderstorms. However, it's not much help from small ground critters like mice, rats, moles and voles, chipmonks, hedgehogs, etc. Obviously, the cover increases the percentages of survival, but I don't know how to predict how much of an increase there will be.

Trudi, You are right. I think row cover will help, but nothing will solve all problems.

Token: I think the culture of this forum - warm, helpful, nonjudgmental - makes it likely that people will ask questions about other things. People who wintersow, or who are considering it, are interested in related subjects - propagation methods, garden design, plants for tough places, etc.

The photo essay you posted, "Winter Sowing a Cottage Garden," was so good. It created a buzz that led people to ask other questions. It's safe to ask questions here.

I like idea about throwing the seeds out there and letting them undergo a process of natural selection, thereby collecting seeds from the stronger plants. Only the fittest survive and reproduce in Ma Nature, unless of course, we help them along by growing them in milk jugs.

And well Buster is cute, and I bet the goats do a great job keeping the weeds and invasive plants down. Do they really eat everything?? Goats and sheep are recommended for "weed removal" and I sure wish I had a few sometimes. But, there won't be any goats in my house either!