I'm a newbie enjoying those nice pictures!

1. So seriously, you just duct tape these closed and leave them? Or baggie the ones without tops? Sounds fishy.

Make sure you add vents to the top and bottom of the baggie--you need ventilation and drainage.

2. Can a salad bar plastic work? It's only about 2" deep. I read the FAQ and it said "thumb" deep, but that seems shallow.

2" is the minimum I would do, but it's my thumb that's two inches. You can place them in part shade if you want, they'll get less sun but also less drying out. Part shade is great for germination, afterwards, get the flats into shade or transplant ASAP.

3. Here in Northern Cal where the temp rarely dips to 35 degrees, could I use the water bottles as "sleeves", cutting the bottoms off and sowing seeds inside the tube, with the top duct taped back on? Essentially, not transplanting them, just sliding the sleeve off when it got big enough and warm enough. I realize I would need to grow them exactly where I wanted them placed though.

I assume in NorCal you've got wind? Wind has a way of blowing away bottles that have no weight to them, even twisted into the ground they still can be pulled out by a sharp gust. I do use bottomless water bottles to protect tomato seedlings from critters and birds after I've transplanted them into the garden. Once the seedling is so big that its leaves touch the walls of the bottle I take the bottles off. And always, with any bottle, NO CAPS!

And honestly, it's only fishy if you recycle a box from the fishmonger and don't wash it out well ;-O

Welcome to WS!

Firsthouse, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your description of using the bottle as a sleeve, do you mean essentially using it as a cloche after direct sowing the seeds in the bed? IF that's what you mean, I did that last year with poppy seeds in a brand new bed, and they sprouted just fine.

I live up on a very windy ridge south of Seattle, and to keep the bottle tops from blowing away, I cut little flaps in the bottom and bent them to the side, and then used earth staples to staple them to the ground. It worked great, I got wonderful lush Oriental poppies. No flowers yet, but that will come next year, since they're perennials. I cut holes in the top to make sure enough rain came through.

Here's a photo to show you what I did.

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Hope that helps.

Believe.

I should probably also mention, I did the poppies this way because for years I tried winter sowing them, and the tiny sprouts never survived being transplanted. So I decided to sow them in place. I winter sowed everything else just the way Trudi says in the FAQ. It's a great method of starting seeds.

I duct-taped 458 milk jugs & 2 liter bottles last year. Guess that's a sizeable enough leap of faith. Set them all out on my concrete breezeway where they got snowed on and rained on and froze to the cement.

My breezeway January 2010
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My breezeway August 2010
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Does that help?

Firsthouse; disclaimer - I'm still a newbie. This is going to be my second year. I had some successes and some failures. One of the reason for failure was drying out. I would be concern about those salad, fruit containers. I had to constantly water them. This year I am not going to used them, only 2L, milk jugs and tall drinking cups. I know, some used those salad containers and lasagna containers with success but not me. Everyone, eventually, has to find out what works the best for him/herself.

Happy New Year everyone!

dawiff: Yes, cloches, that is what I was getting at! Thank goodness you have the talent to translate my incoherent description :) I was thinking of encircling one of my new trees with some flowers and thought I could line up bottles surrounding the base. I may try that too in addition to the WS in milk jugs.

gardenweed: That is SOOOO impressive. I wish my milk jugs looked so nice. Our Starbucks has a policy of smashing the jugs so I spend 10 minutes trying to reshape each one! Yours are picture perfect! Love the before and after.

trudi: You and your website are absolutely inspirational! Can't wait until Spring to see if I was successful. Will definitely use all your tips.

adamark: I love your garden too. Certainly gave me a fright to see what the before and after looked like! If I am successful, we better think about taking out the patio and putting in raised beds, because I might need the space :) Your salad pics were a great incentive!

I've found that smashed milk jugs straighten out when filled with hot water. Put under the faucet and let hot water run in and the bent parts pop back out. After one bottle is fixed pour the water into the next bottle.

For smaller containers like the salad bar ones, I place them in a large plastic box and only cover the plastic box. This gives more headroom for seedlings and less fussing than covering each small container. Some people use a large cardboard box which they say holds up well for at least one season and is easily replaced and doesn't need to be stored over the summer.

We all use the basic techniques of winter sowing and adjust the details to what works best for ourselves.

I use 2L tops for cloches for some seeds I direct sow, pushing down the top so it is a couple of inches into the soil to keep it from blowing away. One problem is sometimes the seedlings and soil come up when removing the top. That's less likely to happen if one waters the area before removing the top. I like dawiff's use of staples with the jugs.

OT I see that since signing in today that my z info has the extra nos. & % signs which I removed before submitting this.

Welcome, firsthouse, you are another zone 8'er for zone wars! When you get some containers sown, if you feel like it, please post your current total container count in the zone wars thread & manda3 will tally it up. It seems each container counts as 1 whether large or small.

As we would say in Louisiana, Geaux zone 8!

O.K.... I just have to throw my 2 cents in here....I am also from No. CA as well.... so I just have to have a little input here... I remember my 1st year of winter sowing vividly... Everything I sowed sprouted like crazy!! With the exception of purple coneflowers, It has taken me 3-4 years to get them buggers to sprout! I am elated that I think one has sprouted and has continued to grow despite my attempts to kill it in the interim.

Listen up because believe it or not, I have not used plastic milk jugs, or other such containers. My method was the following (you have to understand I was on a severely limited budget....I have no time to baby seeds whatsoever ~ I work 2 jobs..)
I used plastic baggies. The zip lock kind from the $1 store...(gallon sized 18 per package.) So here is how I did it. (I still do this method today.) If you don�t want to believe me that�s o.k. too just try a few zip lock baggies just to humor me.
Believing is seeing as far as I am concerned. My method is as follows and I hope this is a good description...
Take a zip lock baggie and fold it in half ~ snip the two corners off with scissors approximately 1/4" at the fold in the middle of the bag snip another 1/4" this will provide the drainage. Open the baggie when viewed from the open top with it open you will see 3 holes for drainage. Fill approximately 4" of the baggie with potting soil.... I use the brand Super Soil which you can buy at most Home Depots.With me it is a $$ thing because I can�t simply can�t afford a whole lot. I also wet the soil and make sure that it is at least 4" in depth when wet. I sow the seeds place them in the yard near the base of a tree. (I don�t think that step is necessary because not all the zip locks were next to a tree....) Also I stopped bothering to "seal the baggies" with the "zip lock" seal either.

Our mild climate even though it can hit freezing temperatures every once in a while did not seem to affect any seeds whatsoever. I have also found this method effective with soda pop bottles the 2 liter kind. I put holes in the bottom and I cut through the top approximately 3-4" down from the pour spout enough so that I left a flap that would close/open easily.
All in all, I have had wonderful/amazing results! I have tomato�s/pepper�s and whatever else vegetable I decide to grow coming out my ears in the summertime, and the most wonderful flowers I could never have hoped to grow before in abundance.
I am truly relieved I for one could never start seeds indoors. If they would even look at me (i.e. sprout).. They would croak from dampening off, and an early grave because they thought they were in the desert! That�s my story and I�m sticking to it....!
Happy Gardening!

bgrow_gardens

bgrow, the first year I ws I used baggies also and had good germination. I need to water often in the spring and need to move my containers around. Found it is easier for me to move jugs and bottles. I still have the baggies, just in case, but prefer the 2Ls and jugs for now.

Isn't it great that we can tweak the details? I think it is always helpful to hear from someone with experience in our same zone.

I've got an illustration on the website of just what you described, Wild Garden of Virginia did the drawing and photos. The baggies work well. My own problem with the baggies was transporting them around the garden becasue they are a little floppy, so to move them I would just slip a cookie sheet under them first, set the sheet down and slide it out from under the baggie.

The baggies are a very cost efficient method, I like them for teachers who need to bring supplies into their classroom. Baggies are cheap, they're easy to prep, all the kids have the same containers, and that also helps with portion control too. When it's important for everyone to have the same experience then baggies work GREAT!

Here is a link that might be useful: Winter Sowing in a Baggie.

GArdenweed I love your pics. Bravo.

firsthouse, when I use half a two liter to protect my baby plant outs or direct sown in the ground I cut a wire hanger, make a hook on one end and use that through the spout to stake them into the ground. That way they don't get blown away.

I'm throwing in a pic of my mismatched containers from my first year too. I think every one had sprouts.

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My original goal was 12 milk jugs. Then all the nice enablers on this forum started sending me seed packs--Token sent 25 or 30, can't remember exactly, nan6161 sent almost that many and more showed up in the mailbox as the weeks passed. I felt guilty not WS every last seed and since my enabling neighbor went dumpster diving every Monday at the landfill and brought me truckloads of milk jugs, I just kept WS more containers. Final tally was 458. I will NOT sow that many this year and there WILL be seeds left over not sowed. I'm trading seeds I harvested for new varieties I want to grow. Once those are sowed, I will be done for the 2011 year until the green wave rolls through in March/April.

I'm taking more pictures this time too so I can share them with the new folks to show them this works. I'm especially looking forward to so many things I WS last year that didn't bloom and will flower this year--Shasta daisy, penstemon, painted daisy, cushion spurge, globeflower, lupine & ladybells.

Sow your containers firsthouse - and get ready to be really, really busy planting your WS seedlings.

mnmsgal: The very hot water trick worked like a charm! All those smashed milk jugs from Starbucks popped back out. I only used two jugs of extremely hot water and that much water moved from jug to jug worked on another 14 jugs! Yeah!

BTW everyone, you neglected to mention how much the duct tape thingy is a huge pain....I was all good until I got that out. The tape is rather cumbersome and not easy to use--it doesn't quite come off the roll well, it doesn't neatly close the jugs and it is pretty ugly. BUT, I got better after 10 or more jugs. They look terrible though! Hopefully I will become a better duct-taper!

Don't worry how they look--they're out in the elements and can't be expected to look picture perfect. There are several threads on the forum that mention the evils of duct tape and I won't deny it's really sticky stuff come time to open the jugs. I use a 4" piece and just tape the edges opposite the handle. That seems to be enough to do the job until it comes time to open the jugs. Some folks prefer foil tape for easier removal but since I stocked up on duct tape last year, that's what I'll be using for the foreseeable future.

I must have read a warning about the duct tape before my first wintersowing as haven't used it.

For jugs, I make a flap in one side of the jug and push it up to sow, then push it back down to close. Or I cut a large sized hole in one side and place a gallon plastic baggie over the top to close. Some people poke a hole in the top and bottom and use a pipe cleaner to close. They don't have to be sealed completely around the opening.

I use one piece of clear tape from the $store.Sometimes two, just to make picking up the jugs easier,the clear packing tape holds up well.Not hard to take off like the duct tape.
cAROL

Wow, I have been thinking of WS. Then I stumble upon this forum just tonite! Awesome, I just ordered lots of new seeds, also I have thousands in my "seed bag" that I have been inadvertently collecting for 2 years.

I live in central Louisiana on 2 acres. I have been planting for several years but plants are very expensive so I still have tons of room left.

The tone on here is so friendly!

fellow gardening gal, Rena'

Welcome Rena! I am new this year too and the folks on this forum are just about the MOST helpful, most encouraging gardeners I have ever run across--and more importantly, they know TONS about WinterSowing. It's like finding a gold mine!

Welcome to the madness Rena!!! Yes, we're a very friendly group of enablers who will encourage, suggest, support, share in the triumphs and commiserate with things that don't go as you'd hoped. We're there when you sow your first container and we'll all do the happy sprout dance the day you see your first green. I was a newbie last year and speak from personal experience. It's truly a fun and educational way to pass the cold winter months. Last year when March rolled around, I actually wondered where the winter went!!! And I live in New England!!!

Bonjour Rena', I am a newbie, too, & we are almost neighbors. Not exactly next door if you are 8a & I am 8b. But still! I see from your page that you grow ginger & I would like to talk to you about growing ginger, etc., etc., in our climate. I am e-mailing you. When you get some jugs sown, if you feel like it, please post your current total container count in the Zone Wars thread & manda3 will tally it up. Bienvenue! Geaux zone 8!

Here is a link that might be useful: My winter sowing pics as of 1/6/11.

Gee! I should have read before I put my questions on the board! thanks everyone for the information!
um, what is cloche?

and I thought those side bar plates with the tops would be ideal, I don't have a way to get gallon jugs but can 2 l soda bottles do the trick?
oh yes the other thing, about the milk jugs, leave the caps off? why?

and I saw one of you cutting out a flap , you mean like a little door to open & close, does make sense.
the drink cup containers sound promising.

anyway thanks for listening to this newbe, prattling on!
all the help I can get.

the garlic bulbs are very strong and I need to get them planted,

mary_grether - throw the caps away. The opening allows snow & rain to get in and lets warm air escape so your sprouts don't fry when the weather warms up.

Two liter bottles work just fine. I don't use them because (a) it takes a drill or soldering iron to put drainage holes in the thick plastic; and (b) they're too tippy--blow over easier when the wind blows. An ice pick does the trick for drainage holes with recycled gallon jugs (i.e., milk/water/cider/juice). There are lots of tricks to keep the 2 liter bottles from blowing over. Folks on this forum generally have a solution to just about any WS problem.

A cloche is part of a bottle or milk jug used to protect seeds in the ground in much the same way as the jugs protect the seeds inside them--keeps critters from gobbling up the seeds and protects them from dessicating winds and/or torrential rains that could wash them away.

OMG, it totally works. I can't believe how quickly that some of the seeds germinated outside. We have had some very nice weather though, so the 60 degree afternoon have helped. Here is the proof:
Turnips:
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Kale:
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Some other green:
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Congratulations!! Now, do the happy sprout dance if you haven't already. Thanks for sharing your "green wave!!!"

Ain't they cute! Yup, WS rocks!

PV

Welcome Rena,you will never do house work again,WSing is so additive.

Oh wow, green already, congratulations!At 5 pm, it is still light out,happy,happy,happy.

Mary, I have used the small soda bottles before, you can tape them all together, like a 6 pack, just one piece of tape all around will keep them from falling over,they work good enough,great if you are only going to sow a few seeds.
Have fun,not matter how you do it, just throw them caps away.
cAROL

I use lots of 2Ls. Using an awl to poke holes between the bumps is easy. Four big holes works fine.

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All wintersown vegetable garden
TomVa

Ooooh! Suffering from severe green envy here! With temps well below freezing here, I don't expect any action for another few monhts... :o(

tomva: WOW! Love those veggies...I am so excited to feed my family fresh food! Today we had rice pilaf with purchased swiss chard and beets greens and I kept thinking, "Next year, I will have grown this myself!"

Lovin the pictures!

mnwsgal - you've created a WS monster. For that I thank you. I got my awl and a few 2 liter bottles and after poking holes in just one, find I can winter sow again without waiting for the Starbucks kiosk at work or my neighbors to save milk jugs for me. I knew there was a reason I tossed all those seltzer bottles into a heap inside my garage "just in case" I needed them to winter sow. HAH!!! I am now back in the game!!!!!!!

Merci beaucoup! Thank you very much!
Je suis enchante'! I am delighted (to meet you)!

Count me in on the zone wars!

river crossroads- I haven't emailed u back yet, but I will. With 4 young children I am shy on time - most of the time lol! Thanks for ur patience.

Thanks so much everyone for the warm welcome!